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The Situation Room

Mike Pence Continues His Campaign Despite Staff Contracting the Coronavirus; Interview with Former Pence Staff Olivia Troye; Mark Meadows Says Trump Admin Not Going to Control the Pandemic; Interview with Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) about Pence Presiding SCOTUS Confirmation Vote; Kamala Harris Says Mike Pence Should Follow CDC Guidelines; Fatalities Grow as Nigerian Citizens Protest Police Brutality. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 25, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:28]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

And we begin tonight with the nation on a very, very dangerous path right now, a day after recording a record-high number of daily new coronavirus cases. The U.S. registered its second highest number of new cases on Saturday totaling 83,713.

And while President Trump has repeated the claim that the country is, quote, "rounding the corner" on the pandemic, the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows today admitted in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper that they are not going to control the pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Here's what we have to do. We're not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, STATE OF THE UNION: Why aren't we going to get control of the pandemic?

MEADOWS: Because it is a contagious virus just like the flu. It's --

TAPPER: Yes, but why not make efforts to contain it?

MEADOWS: Well, we are making efforts to contain it. And that's --

TAPPER: By running all over the country not wearing a mask? That's what the vice president is doing.

MEADOWS: Jake, we can't get into the back and forth. Let me just say this, is what we need to do is make sure that we have the proper mitigation factors whether it's therapies or vaccines or treatments to make sure that people don't die from this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: With only nine days to go until election day here in the United States, the president's closing argument is that the country is rounding the corner on the pandemic, that they admit they can't control. At the same time the president is out there campaigning in Maine today, maskless and mingling with supporters just inches away.

And if that weren't enough, at least five people in the close orbit of the Vice President Mike Pence, including both his chief of staff as well as his body man have tested positive for the virus. In terms of close contact, this is about as close as it gets. And according to CDC guidelines, the vice president should be in quarantine for 14 days.

But instead, the head of the Coronavirus Task Force campaigned today in North Carolina and he's planning on traveling across the country as, quote, "an essential worker."

CNN's John Harwood is over at the White House for us.

John, so what do we know first of all about Marc Short's condition, the president's chief of staff? How's his condition this hour and the positive cases that have emerged in the vice president's circle?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I had a text exchange with Marc Short a short while ago. He said, I'm doing OK. It's hard to tell whether my symptoms are from COVID or from having worked in the White House for four years. Said the symptoms are mild. But in general the White House is trying to say as little as possible about this. They try to keep it quiet as they did with that first outbreak, that sequence of events involving Hope Hicks and the president a few weeks ago.

This is politically disastrous for the White House because the biggest issue in the election is COVID. The American public judged the president harshly on this, and this simply underscores the failure of the administration to control the coronavirus even with people around the head of their task force, Mike Pence. Nevertheless, they're trying to continue on, plowing through it. Pence was on the campaign trail today.

The president was on the campaign trail without a mask, without social distancing in some cases in his trip to an apple orchard up in Maine, and he made some remarks about mail-in voting which has been one of his hobby horses over the course of the campaign, criticizing Democrats for doing it fraudulently, praising Republicans for doing it in what he terms the right way. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was really impressed yesterday in Florida because there was no way there could be any cheating, there was no way. These people were great, the system is great, and there was no way you're voting twice. You're voting 20 times or you're not voting at all. It was a beautiful thing to see. But the ballots are not that way. The ballots get handled by many, many people by the time they even get there, and it shouldn't be allowed, and the Democrats know it's a hoax, and they know, and it's going to cause problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Now, of course, Wolf, just about everything the president said there about fraud and balloting is false. We know that there is hardly any fraud in mail-in balloting, but there is a big problem in the administration's approach, in the Trump campaign's approach. That is, they're relying -- while Democrats are pushing early vote by mail in overwhelming numbers, Republicans are counting on a big election day in-person vote.

And because of the administration's failure to get control of the pandemic, it seems to be cresting right as we get close to election day. That presents some big downside risk in deterring some people to turn out on election day, Wolf.

[20:05:08]

BLITZER: Certainly does. John Harwood, don't go too far away. We'll get back to you.

Right now I want to bring in Olivia Troye. She was part of the vice president's inner circle herself as his lead staffer on the White House Coronavirus Task Force, as well as his Homeland Security adviser. She left the administration back in August, is now supporting Joe Biden's campaign.

Olivia, thank you so much for joining us. And as you know, at least five, five of the vice president's closest insiders are now infected with the virus. Based on what you observed when you worked in the White House, when you worked in the administration, are you surprised to see this virus spreading so quickly apparently among these advisers?

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER AIDE TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: First of all, thank you for having me. I'm going to be brutally honest here. I'm not -- I worked very closely with Marc Short. He was a number one person to act like COVID wasn't real. And when you set the tone on the vice president's team in that manner as a chief of staff, you're going to put everyone around you at risk, including the vice president, who I am not convinced is completely out of the woods right now.

BLITZER: Why do you say that?

TROYE: I just don't see how his personal aide, you know, Zach Bauer, who I personally think the world of and I'm worried about him and I'm worried about his well-being, I just don't see how he can have it, others can have it, both his key advisers can have it. I just wonder what that means for the vice president and his family right now. This virus is contagious. It spreads.

BLITZER: Yes. Zach Bauer, the so-called body man for the vice president, he apparently was beginning to feel sick, got some symptoms several days ago, and then, of course, he tested positive on Saturday. It takes a few days for the symptoms to show up and the test to come back positive.

Late last night when we learned that the vice president's chief of staff, Marc Short, tested positive, you tweeted this, in part, I'll put it up on the screen. "Hope you recover quickly. Maybe our moral compasses will now point in the same direction and we can finally be on the same page. Perhaps now you'll agree that COVID is real."

Do you believe, Olivia, that Marc Short or anyone else in the vice president's office that they still question the seriousness of this deadly virus?

TROYE: I don't know how you can do that when we have cities such as my hometown of El Paso facing curfews right now. They're going on lockdown because they've had a 300 percent increases in cases in the past few days and a doubling of hospitalizations right now. And we're watching what's happening across the country and when they themselves now have the virus.

I mean, I don't know how you check out from the complete reality of what's happening across our country and be in denial about it. You just -- you can't. This is real, this is happening.

BLITZER: What are you hearing from your family back in El Paso?

TROYE: You know, they're scared. This is very personal for me now. My own family has been affected by this virus. I have a relative, a very close relative of mine that is actually in the hospital as of this weekend in El Paso. He is part of those hospitalizations, and it's very hard for me to watch what's happening in the vice president's team right now and watch the vice president continue to travel as the head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force and the example that he is setting right now across the country.

I mean, our own -- the mayor of El Paso pleaded and asked for the White House to please tell people that this is serious. Those hospitals are filling up. The vice president has received briefings along the way back in the spring where we saw hospitals face this. He knows this is real, he knows how important it is to get ahead of this virus. This is not the way to do it. This is just not the way.

BLITZER: Please -- wish our very best to your entire family in El Paso and certainly we hope for a speedy, speedy recovery.

After President Trump was actually infected with the virus, you told the "New York Times" this about working in the White House, and I'll quote what you said. "You were looked down upon when you would you would walk by with a mask."

Were Marc Short or Vice President Pence among those with that attitude of looking down at you when you walked around with a mask?

TROYE: I didn't have that perception of the vice president. I certainly didn't feel that way around him. I definitely saw the attitude at times and heard the comments from Marc Short. That's just the truth.

BLITZER: Like what would he say?

TROYE: Well, there were jokes about it, or it was jokes about -- you know, he would joke about the CDC's latest effort to stop Americans from going to work. Well, what they were trying to do was they were trying to actually protect Americans so that eventually we can all get back to normal and go to work. That's what the CDC and others were trying to do.

[20:10:03]

BLITZER: What does it say to you, Olivia, that the vice president, who is the leader of the Coronavirus Task Force, is continuing to campaign right now, often without a mask, as this virus hits so close to home?

TROYE: It makes me very sad. And I'm disappointed, and I guess the respect that I have held for him for the two years that I worked for him, I guess I have to kind of take a step back and really wonder what's going on here, because you can't be in this situation and know everything that you know and behave this way and pretend that everything is OK.

BLITZER: You heard the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows tell Jake Tapper that the U.S. isn't going to control the pandemic. Do you believe others at the White House share that approach, the approach expressed by Mark Meadows?

TROYE: I do. I think that you're watching the White House double down and just say, you know, we have not wanted to deal with it, we said it was the states' problem to deal with, even though we're going to pressure them to open up way too soon, and we know that it's going to get really bad in the winter. That's happening right now. It's playing out exactly how we all knew this was going to play out.

And I think what they've decided is, you know, COVID is a reality that they don't want to face. This has been a failure. And they're just not going to talk about it now, and they'll just pretend that it's just not happening and move on and hope that they get re-elected. And I really just think that that will be a very, very bad circumstance for all of us if they do get re-elected, because you're going to watch them just keep on moving on while the rest of us suffer.

BLITZER: Olivia Troye, thanks so much for joining us. Good luck to you and good luck to your family in El Paso as well. Thank you very much for joining us.

TROYE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Let's turn to our medical experts right now. Dr. Ashish Jha is joining us, the dean at the Brown University School of Health, and Dr. Celine Gounder, a CNN medical analyst, former assistant commissioner of health for New York City.

Doctors, the Vice President Mike Pence, he's in charge of U.S. efforts against coronavirus, yet he's refusing right now to quarantine, continues to be out there campaigning. Here's how Chief of Staff Mark Meadows responded to a question about that. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEADOWS: I can tell you that what he's doing is wearing a mask, socially distancing, and when he goes up to speak, he will take the mask off, put it back on, but he's wearing a mask as it relates to this particular thing because the doctors have advised him to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, Dr. Jha, aren't these just the things that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have been telling all of us to do whether or not we've been exposed or not?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, Wolf, thank you for having me on. They are. It's nice to see the vice president doing them. But at this moment, that's not what he should be doing. He needs to be in quarantine. The evidence on this is overwhelmingly clear, and there are some very specific exceptions for when you can break quarantine. He doesn't meet any of them, not for rallies, and so I'm glad to see him wearing a mask and social distancing as all of us are, but he still needs to be back in quarantine right now.

BLITZER: So you think he should be, Dr. Jha, in quarantine for 14 days right now given the close proximity he was to these five associates of his?

JHA: Yes, look, the CDC guidelines on this are very clear. There is no exception for campaign rallies. There's no exception. The only time you have an exception is when you're doing -- when you have to do something for a critical infrastructure or needs of the country. Nobody thinks that campaign rallies would meet that. He is the vice president, so you could make a case that he has important duties. I suspect he can do most of them from his home while he's quarantined.

BLITZER: What do you think, Dr. Gounder?

CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes, I would agree with Dr. Jha that this is a situation where he clearly should be in quarantine for 14 days. I do think, you know, it is stepping back, concerning that this is the White House's second outbreak in the last month. Are they going to be doing contact tracing and testing? We know that they did not do so for the Rose Garden event.

We did observe, many of us, that the vice president had conjunctivitis, which is pink eye, which is a known symptom of coronavirus at the vice presidential debates. Could he have been the source for his aides' infections? And how seriously is the White House taking this risk to their own staff? If they can't get their own house in order, how can we expect them to protect the public's health?

So big picture, it's not just about whether the vice president should be in quarantine, it's the entire White House strategy with regard to the pandemic. BLITZER: Dr. Jha, we've gotten news tonight that Dr. Scott Gottlieb,

the former commissioner of the FDA, now says it's now time to consider a limited and temporary national mask mandate. He wrote about it in an op-ed in the "Wall Street Journal." Do you believe he's right?

[20:15:07]

JHA: I do believe Dr. Gottlieb is right. Dr. Gottlieb has been very measured about this. As you might remember, he was the FDA commissioner for President Trump in the first two years of the Trump administration. Dr. Gottlieb has been I think thoughtful and balanced. And at this point given how bad a situation our nation is in, a mask mandate feels to me like the bare minimum that we could be doing.

BLITZER: And what do you think, Dr. Gounder?

GOUNDER: I absolutely think that this is time for a mask mandate. You know, in America we talk a lot about personal responsibility, but the fact is we have not taken personal responsibility and worn masks to protect ourselves and others. This winter is, unfortunately, going to be quite bad. It could well be worse than the spring and summer months were. We've already seen transmissions spread from younger groups to older Americans, and now we're setting record-breaking highs in terms of new cases. Hospitalizations are up 40 percent, so I think we're looking at a very tough coming months.

BLITZER: You know, Dr. Jha, let's talk a little bit about some of the things that have happened today, for example, the president working a rope line in Maine, getting very, very close to fist-bump his supporters out there here in Washington. Hundreds gathered on the National Mall for a Let Us Worship prayer rally. One of the organizers tweeting it's not about protesting COVID, it's about worshipping Jesus.

All of this as we see case counts higher than ever before here in the United States. When people reject science for expressing, let's say, political or religious beliefs, how do you react at a time when there are record numbers of new cases here in the U.S. on Friday and Saturday?

JHA: You know, Wolf, it's distressing because there is absolutely no contradiction between being a religious person and protecting human life. And, in fact, most religious leaders at this moment are calling for more action to protect human lives, and yet I think we've managed to somehow turn this into a political issue, that if you believe in protecting human lives from COVID that somehow you're politically on one side of the aisle.

It's a very unfortunate situation for our nation to be in. We can come around and really rally around the idea that we have to protect people, reduce the number of infections and get through this time period before vaccines become available widely next year.

BLITZER: You know, Dr. Gounder, it's so sad when you think about this controlling the virus. In late January both the United States and South Korea had their first confirmed coronavirus cases. In February around almost exactly the same time the United States and South Korea had their first confirmed deaths. Right now if you take a look as far as deaths are concerned, the United States has had more than 225,000 confirmed deaths over these months since February and March. 225,000 confirmed deaths.

South Korea, a country of some 55 million people, has had fewer than 500 confirmed deaths. 225,000 confirmed deaths versus under 500 confirmed deaths. They've controlled the virus. The United States has failed to control the virus. Why?

GOUNDER: Look, we haven't learned. We haven't learned from our experience. We haven't been committed to mask wearing and social distancing, contact tracing and testing, which are the proven public health measures to control this. And frankly things are looking pretty bleak right now. In Utah, hospitals are looking at having to ration access to ICUs and ventilators now.

As we heard earlier in El Paso, in some cases hospitals are having to fly or looking at having to fly patients to other hospitals in the state. The governor is asking for permission to use a military hospital near El Paso because hospitals are overwhelmed.

And frankly, some of the worst hit places in the country right now are rural areas, and those health facilities are very quick to be overrun. So this is really going to be a very, very difficult couple of months ahead.

BLITZER: It certainly is. And Dr. Jha, very quickly, what did South Korea do right and we did wrong?

JHA: Well, they jumped on this early, they took it seriously, and they built a fabulous testing and tracing infrastructure. We still can do all of that, we just aren't making the investments to do it.

BLITZER: It is so, so sad, indeed. All right, Dr. Jha, thank you so much. Dr. Gounder, thanks to you as well.

Meanwhile, Senate Republicans are planning to hold a confirmation vote for the U.S. Supreme Court nominee, Amy Coney Barrett, and Vice President Pence actually plans to preside in the U.S. Senate. But now the Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer is sounding the alarm.

Senator Tammy Baldwin is standing by live. We'll discuss when we come back.

[20:20:03]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Vice President Mike Pence will be in the Senate chamber tomorrow for Judge Amy Coney Barrett's historic confirmation vote even though at least five members of the vice president's staff have now tested positive for coronavirus in recent days, some with whom he's been in very, very close contact with. The Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer slammed the decision by the vice president this afternoon. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It sets a terrible, terrible example for the American people. And nothing could be a more apt metaphor for what's going on here. The Republican Party is willing to ignore the pandemic to rush the Supreme Court nomination forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I'm joined now by Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin.

Senator, thank you so much for joining us. What's your reaction to the news that the vice president, who is also the president of the Senate, will preside over tomorrow's vote, he will physically be there?

[20:25:06]

SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-WI): Well, I was pretty shocked, and at the time I first heard the news, I only had learned of two of his staff members testing positive in the last 24 hours. Now we hear it's up to five. And I think that it would be very dangerous in terms of a health risk. I think it would be a totally wrong example for the United States for him to appear in the Senate chambers, preside over the Senate.

You know, not only that, but as you're aware, we have had outbreaks among senators and among Senate staffers, and the Senate Republicans are not following quarantining recommendations either. So it's a very distressing situation and again sends entirely the wrong message to the American public when we know that wearing masks, social distancing and after an exposure quarantining are the tools that we now have to fight this pandemic.

BLITZER: Yes. His chief of staff, the vice president's chief of staff Marc Short tested positive. His so-called body man, his executive assistant who is very close to the vice president, he's now tested positive. Three other associates, including his top political aide, all tested positive. It's a serious issue. The CDC recommends someone in that situation should be quarantined at least for 14 days.

As you know, the vice president is also the head of the Coronavirus Task Force over at the White House. Does he owe it to the American people, Senator, to disclose who in his office -- other associates may have tested positive and when they tested positive?

BALDWIN: Well, I think what he owes to the American public is honesty and straightforwardness about this pandemic and about the White House Coronavirus Task Force's plans to, you know, combat it. We heard, as you mentioned in your previous segment, stunning remarks from Mark Meadows, chief of staff to the president, that they're really not trying to fight it anymore. Their focus is elsewhere.

And that is, as I said, stunning information. This administration has no plan, they've never had a plan, and their failure to lead on day one or month one, or to this moment, is outrageous. They're failure to create enforceable pandemic emergency rules for workplaces and for schools and for industry. It's just an abject failure of leadership.

BLITZER: Your state, state of Wisconsin, right now, as you know better than I do, is right in the middle of a very, very dangerous coronavirus surge. Wednesday saw a record number of COVID deaths in Wisconsin for the second weekend in a row. Though the president actually held a big Wisconsin rally with virtually no social distancing at all.

Do you think his refusal to follow CDC guidelines for these events whether in Wisconsin or in other states for that matter is actually turning off undecided voters in your state. And as all of us know, Wisconsin was won by President Trump four years ago narrowly.

BALDWIN: Very narrowly. Yes, I think his behavior is turning off many, especially in communities where he's held these super spreader events, and they have seen in follow up to those major increases in coronavirus cases. Before President Trump tested positive for the coronavirus, he held a rally in Marathon County, Wisconsin. Since that point, the cases have gone up 50 percent in that county.

He is not only exposing his supporters to the coronavirus, but the entire communities where these supporters come from. And I think if you talk to any first responder or anybody who is trying to manage the surge in hospitals and ICUs, they're pretty angry that this administration is not only failing to do its job to protect us, but actually doing harm.

BLITZER: How close is the contest in Wisconsin right now for president?

BALDWIN: Well, we don't have party registration, but I can tell you that we've had enormous uptake in absentee balloting this year, over 1.7 million ballots ordered. A majority of those back in early voting this past week, and it's gotten incredible interest in participation.

[20:30:05]

So Wisconsinites want their voices heard. They want to be able to conduct their balloting in a safe and healthy way, and they're going to be out. They're going to be out.

BLITZER: We'll watch it closely together with you.

Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, thank you so much for joining us.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Stay safe out there.

Nearly two weeks ago, Senator Kamala Harris left the campaign trail for a few days after a staffer on her campaign tested positive for the coronavirus. You're going to hear what she is saying about Vice President Pence's decision to continue campaigning despite a rash of cases in his inner circle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:35:11]

BLITZER: Earlier this month Joe Biden's running mate, Senator Kamala Harris, was actually pulled off the campaign trail for several days out of an abundance of caution after her communications director tested positive for coronavirus. She now says Vice President Mike Pence should do the same thing.

CNN's Jessica Dean is following all of this for us.

Jessica, so what more are we hearing from the Biden-Harris campaign right now?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Kamala Harris was on the campaign trail today, and you mentioned several weeks ago one of her aides did test positive for coronavirus. Now they had not been in close contact as defined by the CDC once that person tested positive, but still out of an abundance of caution, the campaign did pull her off the campaign trail for several days.

So she was asked today what she thought about Vice President Mike Pence continuing to campaign even though many in his or several in his circle have contracted coronavirus. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He should be following the guidelines. We're doing it. I think we have modeled the right and good behavior and they should take our lead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Meantime, Joe Biden putting out a statement this afternoon about the Trump administration's response to the pandemic. He said that he believes the Trump administration is waving the white flag and essentially giving up on the pandemic.

And, Wolf, you know this. This has been a central message, the coronavirus pandemic and the President Trump's response to it. It has been a central message of the Biden-Harris campaign. That is an issue where the campaign really believes they can drive home a strong contrast of what Vice President Biden would do if elected to get the pandemic under control, to get the virus under control, what they would do with vaccines down the road, those sorts of things. Really laying out detailed plans, listening to scientists.

So you can expect, Wolf, as we now head into this final stretch of the campaign, to hear that be a key part of their closing argument to voters.

BLITZER: Yes. Good point indeed. Jessica Dean in Wilmington, Delaware, covering the Biden-Harris campaign. Thank you very, very much.

After a race like no other, it all ends here. Join us for a special live coverage the way only CNN can bring it to you from the first votes to the critical count. Understand what's happening in your state and indeed across the country.

"ELECTION NIGHT IN AMERICA." Our special coverage starts Tuesday, November 3rd, 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

President Trump's campaign has tried to shift the focus of the campaign from the president's mishandling of the pandemic. So what does that mean for the president's closing message? We have new information. We'll share it with you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:41:54]

BLITZER: President Trump has been out on the campaign trail this weekend hoping to turn the page from the coronavirus pandemic and put the White House outbreak behind him. But now at least five, five of Vice President Mike Pence's staffers have tested positive for the virus, and a source tells CNN that the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows actually sought to keep the news quiet.

CNN Politics reporter and editor-at-large Chris Cillizza is joining us right now.

Chris, how bad is this politically for the president right now with only nine days left until election day?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Really, really bad, Wolf. And the reason is simple. Donald Trump in New Hampshire today, any number of times of the campaign trail, as you mentioned he's been out on it a lot, has said that we're rounding the corner on the coronavirus. Well, bookend this month. The start of the month, Donald Trump gets the coronavirus as does the first lady, as do a number of people in their inner circle, and Donald Trump is hospitalized for three plus days.

That's at the start of the month. At the end of the month, Mike Pence's chief of staff and several other people around him get the coronavirus. So again, it's very difficult for the president to say we're rounding the corner, things are getting much better, it's all going to be gone soon, when not only did he get it and a number of people around Mike Pence have gotten it, but we've seen these numbers both Friday and Saturday record-setting daily cases across the country.

BLITZER: This morning the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told our Jake Tapper, and I'm quoting now, "We are not going to control the pandemic." Is that really the closing argument that the White House wants to make to voters at this sensitive moment?

CILLIZZA: Wolf, I'll lean on my years of political wisdom here and say absolutely 100 percent not. This is a president who has painted himself as someone who is actually on top of all of this. He said repeatedly millions of people could have died. I'll note here that's with zero intervention in the coronavirus, which was never going -- never was an option, never was going to be an option. When you have your chief of staff essentially admitting if not defeat

then retreat that, look, we're just going to kind of have to wait until there's a vaccine, more people are going to die, more people are going to get sick. That's the opposite of what you want if you're the president here, especially because he's out on the campaign trail trying to act as though this is all behind us when we know -- I hope this isn't true, but if the numbers look like they continue to look that some of our worst days, at least in terms of case load, are in front of us.

BLITZER: Yes, nearly a thousand Americans are dying almost every single day.

I want to play a moment, Chris, from President Trump's "60 Minutes" interview.

CILLIZZA: Sure.

BLITZER: When he simply walked out on Lesley Stahl. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Joe Biden giving softball after softball. I've seen all of his interviews. He's never been asked a question that's hard.

LESLEY STAHL, CBS' "60 MINUTES": OK. But forget him for a minute. You're president --

TRUMP: No. But you start with me --

STAHL: You're president and --

TRUMP: Excuse me, Lesley. You started with me, your first statement was, are you ready for tough questions?

STAHL: Are you?

TRUMP: That's no way to talk. That's no way to talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lesley, one second --

STAHL: At this point, one of our producers interrupted to advise about the time remaining in the interview.

[20:45:05]

TRUMP: I think we have enough of an interview here, Hope. OK? That's enough. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go meet for two seconds, OK? Thanks. I'll see you later. Thanks.

STAHL: Be careful.

We were scheduled to take a walk with the president around the White House grounds.

I've got a lot of questions I didn't ask. While we waited to see if the president was coming back, his press

secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, came in with a hand delivery.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Lesley, the president wanted me to deliver his health care plan. It's a little heavy.

STAHL: Oh, my god, this is his health care plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. So yesterday the former president Barack Obama out campaigning in Miami for Joe Biden said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: He wants full credit for the economy he inherited and zero blame for the pandemic that he ignored. He likes to act tough and talk tough, he thinks scowling and being mean is tough. And being rude is tough. But when "60 Minutes" and Lesley Stahl are too tough for you, you ain't all that tough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Seems like that kind of a thing certainly could get under the president's skin. What do you think?

CILLIZZA: Big time. Let me just note, by the way, that when Kayleigh McEnany delivered that massive book that was President Trump's health care plan, according to CBS, it was filled with the executive orders that Donald Trump has signed. That's not a health care plan. So just that. Secondly, yes, you know, I think, Wolf, one of the -- this is a function, I think, of the fact that Donald Trump really does live in sort of a self-created bubble, his own universe in which he really doesn't give a lot of interviews to any kind of mainstream media.

FOX News gets virtually every interview. You know, he calls in to FOX Business News, he calls in to "FOX & Friends," he calls in to Sean Hannity. So as a result, he's only used to softball questions. You know, the question is, Mr. President, you're pretty great. Any comment? Right? So if you're used to that, and you're getting asked serious questions, tough, I mean, whether or not he has a health care plan doesn't trigger to me as tough question. If you say that you want to repeal, you want the Supreme Court to knock down the Affordable Care Act, then it's a reasonable question to ask if you have something to replace it, which by the way they do not.

He's just not used to it because he lives -- he has enclosed himself. He has walled himself off in a world of conservative media, and I think it's to his detriment when he is trying at the end of the campaign, he's trying to reach out to people who are not in his base. He's not capable of doing it. He has no frame of reference. And he is -- and we've always known this, he's a remarkably thin-skinned guy.

BLITZER: Chris Cillizza, thank you very, very much for your analysis.

CILLIZZA: Thanks, Wolf. BLITZER: We always appreciate it, Chris Cillizza, here in Washington.

And we have much more on the 2020 election and the deadly coronavirus pandemic coming up. We're also following, though, the massive protest against police brutality underway right now in Nigeria. That and a lot more news coming up.

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[20:53:13]

BLITZER: Much more on the pandemic and the election coming up. But first the bloody protests in Lagos, Nigeria have now left at least 56 people dead, according to Amnesty International.

CNN's Nima Elbagir tells us what's behind the unrest.

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NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Broken glass and debris on the streets of Lagos. Shattered remnants of protests in Nigeria over police brutality that quickly turned from peaceful to deadly.

There is a tense calm in the city now. But on Tuesday night, the city erupted into chaos after eyewitnesses say multiple protesters were shot and killed by army soldiers. The army has dismissed reports of the incident as "fake news."

The shooting set off a wave of anger across the country. Many shops and businesses have been burned or damaged and there is widespread looting in the worst unrest in the country since its return to civilian rule in 1999.

It is one of the biggest political challenges so far for the country's president, Muhammadu Buhari. On Thursday he addressed the nation, appealing for calm.

PRES. MUHAMMADU BUHARI, NIGERIA: Your voice has been heard loud and clear and we are responding.

ELBAGIR: But critics say he waited too long to make a public statement and didn't even address the events on Tuesday, which has further angered many Nigerians.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People died, people lost their loved ones, and he didn't mention anything about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The speech was baseless, hopeless.

ELBAGIR: The state governor spoke to CNN and said he is committed to a full investigation of what happened and people will be held accountable, but also says demonstrators should have left when they were told, as a curfew was in effect.

[20:55:14] BABAJIDE SANWO-OLU, LAGOS STATE GOVERNOR: The protesters had the time to also -- to have left, you know, the site we're talking about. But it's totally condemnable.

ELBAGIR: The protests began more than two weeks ago and have been largely driven by young people in Nigeria, organizing on social media under the #EndSARS who initially called for a police unit known as a Special Anti-Robbery Squad to be disbanded because of allegations of kidnapping, harassment and extortion.

Under intense pressure, the government agreed to dissolve the unit and redeploy officers to a different team. But the movement continued, widening to include economic reforms and more protections against the police.

The voices raised here in a call for justice have found willing echoes around the world, gaining international attention from celebrities like Beyonce and Rihanna, placing a spotlight on shootings that have yet to be fully explained and the growing discontent from the country's youth.

Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.

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BLITZER: Thank you, Nima Elbagir, for that report.

Nine days until election day here in the United States and the U.S. reported its second highest number of new coronavirus cases on Saturday and now the White House says they've given up fighting the virus. We'll have new information for you when we come back.

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