Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Trump Still Refusing to Accept Election Defeat; Interview With New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio; Pandemic Escalating; U.S. Sees Single-Day Record 144,000 New Cases, 1,800+ Deaths; Biden Maintains Lead as Key States Keep Counting Votes; Obama: Trump's Refusal to Concede is a Step Toward "Delegitimizing" Biden Administration and Democracy; Wolf One-on-One with Cindy McCain. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 12, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: One of the president's fiercest allies, Senator Lindsey Graham, is among a growing number of top Republicans, like Senator Chuck Grassley, for example, who now say that president- elect Biden should begin receiving highly classified daily intelligence briefings.

Even within the president's own family, we're now told, divisions are beginning to emerge. Mr. Trump's adult sons, Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., are pushing him to fight to the bitter end.

But sources tell CNN that Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner are privately looking for a way out.

Meanwhile, president-elect Biden's team says he's moving full speed ahead with his transition plans, despite the president's continued obstruction.

We're also following the worsening coronavirus pandemic here in the United States that has now killed more than 242,000 Americans, and, just yesterday, a record 65,000 Americans were hospitalized with the virus, as the country reported yet another all-time high of new cases, 144,000 in just one day.

And this just coming into THE SITUATION ROOM right now. The CDC now projects the U.S. death toll from the virus could climb as high as 282,000 by December 5.

Let's begin with an update from our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta.

Jim, some of the president's most prominent supporters finally, finally are beginning to acknowledge reality.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.

The dam hasn't broken yet, but a growing number of Republicans are calling on the Trump administration to start treating Joe Biden as the president-elect and begin providing him with intelligence briefings, so he can get -- hit the ground running after the inauguration. But there's one big obstacle standing in the way. That, of course, is

the president himself. Sources tell CNN the president does not want to give up the fight until he's exhausted all of his legal challenges at the state level, challenges his own advisers and even some in his own family are telling him, they're going nowhere.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much.

ACOSTA (voice-over): In hiding for much of the week since he last addressed the public, President Trump is finding out a lame duck cannot be stubborn for very long, as some in the Republican Party are making way for Joe Biden.

A growing number of GOP senators are calling on the administration to begin providing intelligence briefings to Biden, a standard practice during a peaceful transfer of power.

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): There is no loss from him getting the briefings and to be able to do that. And if that's not occurring by Friday, I will step in as well and to be able to push him to say, this needs to occur, so that, regardless of the outcome of the election, whichever way that it goes, people can be ready for that actual task.

ACOSTA: Another influential figure in the party, GOP strategist Karl Rove, is urging Mr. Trump to make a graceful exit as soon as his long shot election challenges are finished, writing in "The Wall Street Journal": "Once his days in court are over, the president should do his part to unite the country by leading a peaceful transition and letting grievances go."

Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine is echoing that.

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): I think that we need to consider the former vice president as the president-elect. Joe Biden is the president- elect.

ACOSTA: Other Trump allies aren't dealing with reality.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): He's not president right now. Don't know if he will be president on January 20. But whoever is will get the information.

ACOSTA: When White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany was asked about Biden receiving intelligence briefings, she punted the question to -- get this -- the White House.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I haven't spoken to the president about that. That would be a question more for the White House. But I will say that all laws are being followed with regard to an expected transition, though we expect to continue on as the Trump administration.

ACOSTA: Democrats say, they have had enough.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): These Republicans are all auditioning for profiles in cowardice.

ACOSTA: Sources tell CNN the president is not expected to acknowledge the election results until he's exhausted his legal options later this month. Some of Mr. Trump's friends say, that's the time to call it quits.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS: Time coming soon to say goodbye with grace and dignity. You know, I know it's hard to hear, but that's the way I feel about this.

ACOSTA: The president and his advisers may then turn to crafting an announcement that Mr. Trump is eying the 2024 rates, with one source close to the president telling CNN: "It's something he is reviewing."

Until then, sources say the president still wants to settle scores and may fire more top officials in the coming days, including CIA Director Gina Haspel, cybersecurity official Chris Krebs, and FBI Director Christopher Wray.

Other Homeland Security officials are already being forced out. Mr. Trump is also lashing out at FOX News, tweeting: "Very sad to watch this happen, but they forgot what made them successful, what got them there. They forgot the golden goose."

The president doesn't appear to be spending much time dealing with the coronavirus, as more of as close associates are contracting COVID-19, including adviser Corey Lewandowski, one of several aides and allies to catch the virus since last week's election party.

So much for Mr. Trump's promise that media coverage of the virus would vanish.

TRUMP: On November 4, you won't be hearing as much about this. It's going to be -- right now, it's COVID, COVID, COVID.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[18:05:04]

ACOSTA: Now, as for the prospect of the president firing the CIA director, Gina Haspel, a source familiar with the situation tells CNN that the CIA director is on thin ice and that the president has had a problem with Gina Haspel for some time.

Meanwhile, our sources are also telling us don't expect the president to concede or accept the election results until he's exhausted these legal challenges. At this point, Wolf, the president appears to be, according to our sources, positioning himself for another run for the presidency in 2024.

The Republican Party may be stuck with Donald Trump for years to come, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jim Acosta, I want you to stand by. You're going to come back in a moment. But I want to bring in CNN's Jessica Dean right now. She's following the Biden transition for us. She's joining us from Wilmington, Delaware.

Jessica, the president-elect's team says he's moving full speed ahead with his preparations to take office. What specific steps is he taking?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the vice -- the president-elect is taking a number of steps, as he tries to push his transition forward, a big one, naming his chief of staff.

Longtime aide and very close campaign adviser Ron Klain will be Joe Biden's chief of staff. And it's notable also, Klain served as the Ebola czar back in 2014. And a lot of people see that as a very strong asset, that he has a lot of experience in a public health crisis, and, of course, the Biden and Harris transition team laser-focused on the coronavirus pandemic and what they're going to do as soon as they get into office.

Another thing that the president-elect is doing right now is receiving a number of congratulatory calls from foreign leaders. Notably, today, he heard from Pope Francis. They talked about a number of issues, including climate change.

And it's worth mentioning Joe Biden will be the second president of the United States who is Catholic. So this was definitely a personal call as well, of personal importance to Joe Biden. We heard him quoting Pope Francis on the campaign trail as recently as the week before the election in his closing -- one of his closing arguments to Americans, so very important for him there.

What's also important to know is that he's receiving these calls without the traditional support of the State Department. That's because the Trump administration is not allowing him or his transition team any access to those resources. In fact, there is a stack of messages, Wolf, for the president-elect that they're not even allowed to read.

We also know that he spoke with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi today as well. They talked about perhaps trying to get a COVID relief bill done in the lame-duck session -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, should open the door and allow this normal process in a transition to go forward.

When it comes to the pandemic, Jessica, one Biden adviser has floated the idea of a four-to-six-week nationwide lockdown. Is that something the Biden team is actually considering?

DEAN: Yes, this was one of their advisory members who had said that maybe that was what needed to happen, if the government could help people with their financial losses and also small business losses.

But the Biden transition really pouring cold water on that, pushing back today, a transition aide saying that is not in line with what the president-elect is thinking right now, and also adding, Wolf, that there are a number of people on that advisory board.

BLITZER: All right, Jessica Dean in Wilmington, Delaware, for us covering the transition, thank you.

I want to bring in CNN's Jamie Gangel and Nia-Malika Henderson to join the conversation. And Jim Acosta is still with us as well.

So, Nia, we're learning the president is feeling, in a word, dejected, as his focus, at least on Twitter, right now, he's aiming -- he's criticizing FOX News at a time when more than 1,800 Americans died from coronavirus just yesterday.

Is that what you would expect to see from a president of the United States during a global health crisis, especially as it's affecting the American public?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, Wolf, it's certainly not what we would expect from a normal president who uses their time to really solve the problems that the country is facing.

And, of course, the big problem this country is facing is the pandemic. But it is what we have come to expect from this president, somebody who focuses on his feelings, on his grievances, who spends a lot of time watching TV, particularly FOX News, and a lot of time tweeting.

And this is the very behavior that likely cost him his reelection, not focusing on what people's lives are like and trying to improve those lives. And so now he faces the reality, slowly, it seems, that he is going to be a one-term president.

And, in this time, which is a precious amount of time that he has left in the White House, he again is ignoring people's problems, ignoring the pandemic, when this should be his number one focus, given the explosive amount of cases that we're seeing.

And, listen, this is a time that experts predicted. They expected that the fall would be terrible, because people are going back indoors. The flu season is always upon us. But we also know that this is a president who ignored the pandemic, ignored the experts as well, and wanted to focus on his own problems in front of them.

[18:10:15]

BLITZER: Yes, record number of cases, hospitalizations, and, sadly, deaths exploding here in the United States.

Jamie, it's becoming more and more apparent that some Republicans up on Capitol Hill now finally realize the president's election challenges are likely to fail, as some acknowledge the transition should now move forward.

What are you hearing from your sources? And you're well plugged in? Is the crack in the Republican Party growing?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the words you use, Wolf, are critical, some and a crack.

This is a wavelet. Look, there are still some very notable Republicans who we have not heard from. Where is Majority Leader Mitch McConnell? He has not joined this group. Same on the House side for Kevin McCarthy. They find it very hard for some reason to say the words president-elect Biden.

That said, I think what we have seen in the last 24 hours is critical. And I think we have to take a hard look at the fact that it started with Karl Rove. For people who don't know him, he was the strategic political adviser for former President George W. Bush. And he is very close to Jared Kushner.

He has been giving him a lot of advice. When Karl wrote that piece yesterday and the headline said, the election results will not be overturned, I think that that would not have happened without Jared Kushner knowing about it.

And it was a sense from that part of the family that they had to start taking the air out of the balloon and moving the Republican Party slowly, put a toe in the water in the right direction of accepting the election results.

BLITZER: Yes. I think it's also significant Geraldo Rivera of FOX...

GANGEL: Absolutely.

BLITZER: ... has actually said, it's over, Mr. President, leave in a very dignified manner. That's so important. The president, of course, admires Geraldo, as we all know. They're very close for many, many decades.

GANGEL: Correct.

BLITZER: Jim, you just reported that the CIA director, Gina Haspel, the FBI director, Christopher Wray, they're apparently on very thin ice with the president right now.

Should we be bracing for more high-profile firings as the president begins to accept that his days in the White House are numbered?

ACOSTA: I think we should, Wolf.

I mean, I'm told by a source familiar with this situation that Gina Haspel, the CIA director, is on thin ice with this president, has been on thin ice for some time now, for many months. Part of the reason why is because the president would like Gina Haspel to declassify and release information from the Russia investigation that he sees as beneficial to his cause moving forward, potentially running for president again in 2024.

And so this is a president right now who is in the mood to settle scores. Gina Haspel is obviously going to be reluctant to release that kind of information, because it could release sources and methods, reveal sources and methods. That's obviously not something you want to do when you're one of the heads of the intelligence community. But, Wolf, when we're wondering why some of these high-profile

Republican lawmakers here in Washington are not splitting with the president and calling for him to step down, just look at the way the president's been behaving, firing the defense secretary and all these rumblings about firing the CIA director, the director of the FBI.

You get the sense from talking to Republicans on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue that they just don't want to damage this president's ego any further, because they don't know what he's capable of at this point, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, guys. Everybody, thank you very, very much.

Just ahead, I will speak live with the New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio. We will talk about the president's transition obstruction. We will also talk about the coronavirus pandemic and whether the surging case count will shutter schools in New York City.

And, later, the health and human services secretary, Alex Azar, he is standing by live. He will join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM. We have lots to discuss, including the encouraging new data on a potential coronavirus vaccine.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:18:45]

BLITZER: It's been more than a week since the election and several days since it became clear that President Trump lost his bid for a second term.

But he still won't concede the race, and many top Republicans are happy to enable his denial.

Let's discuss this and more with the mayor of New York City, Bill de Blasio.

Mayor de Blasio, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to get to coronavirus and what's going on in New York City in a moment. But the president right now, he's digging in his heels, refusing to concede.

What sort of damage does that do, potentially, at a dangerous moment like this, this transition? What kind of damage does do to American democracy?

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D-NY), NEW YORK CITY: Yes, Wolf, we have to take it real seriously and be vigilant here.

I mean, this is a president who clearly is becoming even more unglued, because he can't accept an obvious defeat. I mean, for God's sakes, Joe Biden now has the highest victory margin since Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1932. Come on. It is sad to watch, and I don't take it lightly at all, because we

don't know what he's capable of doing with the powers of the presidency.

BLITZER: Yes, his national popular lead, Biden's, is now more than 5.2 million, 5.2 million votes ahead of Trump's right now in the national popular vote.

[18:20:03]

During the campaign, Mayor, many leading progressives set aside differences with Joe Biden to help get him elected. That was priority number one for the progressives, the moderates, or the conservatives, the Democrats.

We're already seeing some fissures, though, within your party reemerge. Do you, as a progressive, trust that the president-elect, Joe Biden, will prioritize progressive policies?

DE BLASIO: Yes, I really do, Wolf.

One thing I appreciate deeply about Joe Biden -- you could see it in his victory speech -- he understands working people. He cares about working people.

And this is where the Democratic Party has always been at its best, when we think about the working men and women of America and what they need and focus on things like health care and making it more universal, and focus on things like making sure people actually get paid for the work they do at a fair level.

This is the kind of thing that Joe Biden, I think, is all about. He said to people that he really is looking at the model of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and what he did to bring the country back. And that's the best mile any progressive has ever seen in this country's history.

So, I feel very good about where his heart is. I think he's got a lot of great people on his team, including a lot of leading progressives, that are important to him. So, I think you're going to see a lot more unity going forward than people imagine.

You remember, there used to be so much talk about, oh, the progressives wouldn't show up in this election. No, in fact, you're exactly right. Progressives really went to bat for Joe Biden. He won the primaries fair and square. We wanted him to win. And now we want them to succeed with a progressive agenda.

BLITZER: Yes, they showed up and they voted.

Let's turn to the pandemic, which is getting worse and worse and worse. New York City's positivity rate, as you well know, Mayor, stands now at 2.6 percent. You say the schools will close when that reaches 3 percent. At the rate the city is going in the country is going right now, is it inevitable that you will be forced to close the schools again?

DE BLASIO: I don't say inevitable, no. We are ready for that possibility.

But, in fact, here in New York City, what we're doing in response is more and more testing. We're going into the areas, like Staten Island, this week that we're having an upsurge in with a lot more education and mask distribution.

And when we did that, Wolf -- you know we had a problem in Brooklyn and queens a few weeks ago. We did the exact same approach, and it brought those numbers down really quickly. So, this ball game ain't over. We are going to go out to every part of the city with more and more testing, more and more masks.

And New Yorkers proved -- after March, April, the city came back from a worse situation. The country came back strong. Brooklyn and Queens just came back. We can do it again.

BLITZER: But if it goes above 3 percent, will you close the schools?

DE BLASIO: I have been very clear. That's a standard we set. We're going to stick to that standard. And, if God forbid, that happened, then the goal is to get them right back as quickly as possible.

But, right now, we still have a chance of holding our school system. We have a second wave bearing down on us. But we can stop that second wave. And I got to tell you, it's different. Some other parts of the country have not experienced comeback like this before. We have done it multiple times already.

We have proven there's a formula for beating this virus and getting the people fully engaged, because, when people decide they're going to change their behavior, that's when you beat back the virus. And that -- we're telling them, no holiday gatherings of big size, do not travel for the holidays, stay home with close family, put that mask on.

These are the things that will protect this city.

BLITZER: As you well know, Governor Cuomo just announced new restrictions, cutting hours on restaurants and gyms, limiting gatherings to 10 people.

Is that going to be enough, do you believe, to make a difference? Are you with the governor on his decision?

DE BLASIO: Yes, he and I have talked about this a lot. I think he's in the right place.

I think it will help, for sure. And the additional work that's being done in Staten Island, in particular, I think it's going to help a lot.

Look, the goal here is to turn this around. We're still at one of the lowest levels of positivity in the country. We can drive it down again, and to still respect the fact that, look, people are trying to make a livelihood after all those tough months. We want to respect that. At the same time, we want to balance these factors. So I think the city and the state are in agreement. We can turn this

around, if people participate. And we have seen it before. New Yorkers were heroic in the spring, just heroic, the way they fought back the disease.

They know what it takes. Now's a chance for them to do it again.

BLITZER: A quick final question before I let you go, Mayor.

Senator Bernie Sanders yesterday told me he'd be interested in becoming the labor secretary. Would you support that?

DE BLASIO: He's an extraordinary leader and one of the greatest progressive voices in this country, unquestionably.

[18:25:04]

Any role he serves in, he's going to do a lot to improve this country. And he would certainly be an asset to the administration, no question about that.

BLITZER: Are you open to serving in the incoming administration?

DE BLASIO: I have got a job to do right here. As we just talked about, Wolf, we got a lot more to do to protect this city and move it forward. So, that's where I'm at.

BLITZER: Is that a no?

DE BLASIO: It's a focus, a focus on New York City.

BLITZER: It's a diplomatic answer. That's what it is.

Mayor, thank you so much for joining us.

DE BLASIO: Thanks, Wolf. You take care.

BLITZER: You too. Be careful up there.

Just ahead, I will speak to the health and human services secretary, Alex Azar, about the raging coronavirus pandemic. What's the Trump administration going to do to fight it? There you see him. He's standing by live. We have important issues to discuss.

And, later, Cindy McCain is standing by live to join us. We will talk to the widow of the late Republican Senator John McCain about her role on the Biden transition advisory board and how some Republicans are enabling President Trump's denials and conspiracy theories.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: The breaking news we're following right now, the U.S. shattering its record for new single-day coronavirus cases as the pandemic rages across the country and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has just revised its forecast is now projecting that as many as 40,000 additional deaths here in the United States in the next three weeks.

Joining us now to discuss this and more, the Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar. Secretary Azar, thank you so much for joining us.

This is a pretty dire forecast from the CDC, the virus seems to be running rampant right now. Tell our viewers what the Trump administration is doing right now to get these numbers down.

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Yes, Wolf. So what's really important is we want to change that trajectory. We change that through our individual behaviors by washing our hands, watching our distance, wearing face coverings when we can't watch our distance.

And it's important right now, especially as it's gotten colder outside, we need to stay out of settings especially if you're vulnerable, like indoor restaurants or bars, if they're over crowded, places where you might take your mask off and let your guard down and especially household gatherings with neighbors and family members. We're seeing so much transmission there because you don't wear your face coverings in those setting. You let your guard downs. We're seeing that.

And you know it's not unique, Wolf. I've talk to all of the G7 Health Minister and Western Europe is seeing exactly the same phenomenon, people are tired, they're sick of the community mitigation, the masks they're wearing on them, so to speak.

You know, Europe right now is experiencing 45 percent higher per capita cases per day than even the United States is. But we want to turn this around, Wolf, by good individual behaviors, because we got hopes, we have vaccines and therapeutic on the way or here already.

BLITZER: Yes, I want to talk that.

AZAR: And, look, people are there for that.

BLITZER: Yes, and I want to talk about that, and I'm glad you're speaking out, you're going out. You're going on television, as you are right now, telling the American public what needs to be done. But where is president? Where is President Trump on this right now?

Americans are dying in huge -- 1,800 yesterday alone. We haven't heard from him in more than a week right now, except he tweets a little bit. What's going on? Why isn't he addressing the American people as you are?

AZAR: Well, Wolf, I'm his health secretary, and I'm trying to get the message out there, and especially on face coverings. You know, we just at CDC, in the last couple of days, put out the latest evidence that masks work. You know, at one meter, we tested at one meter, if both people are wearing masks, it can reduce the viral transmission by up to 70 percent. And for the first time ever, we have been able to show that the mask not only protects from somebody who's infected spreading disease out but protects you, the recipient. And so my message to you is wear your face covering and if somebody around you isn't wearing their face covering, let them know that they're putting you at risk.

BLITZER: Well, I'm grateful to you for saying that, Mr. Secretary. That's really important. But with all due respect, it's one thing for you to say it, it's another thing for the president. If he were to say to his supporters and all those who voted for him, it's critically important, as you just said, to simply put on a mask, so simple, simply wear a mask, thousands of Americans will live, he should be doing that right now instead of tweeting about Fox News, right?

AZAR: Well, Wolf, I just hope the American people hear these messages from all of us. We're all over the airwaves and we're saying this. And you know why? Because we had a historic week in public health. Pfizer announced a vaccine with 90 percent plus efficacy. That's almost unheard of.

That same day we authorized Lilly's monoclonal antibody to help keep people who have been diagnosed as positive at risk of hospitalization to keep them out of the hospital.

Last night, Moderna announced they hit a critical milestone on their vaccine trials, and within days, we may see trial results from them.

And this afternoon, we announced a unique partnership with America's pharmacies to administer and eventual COVID vaccine so people in underserved rural areas will have access to vaccines the way they get their normal vaccines, 90 percent of us living within 5 miles of a pharmacy and pharmacist being one of most trusted people in health care.

So we're really trying to advance that. I want people to act responsibly because there so much hope for the future. But we need you to stay safe now because I want you to get to that point when we pull through this.

[18:35:02]

BLITZER: Yes. And there is a really, really encouraging word on both a vaccine as well as therapeutics. And all of us are hoping that works. It's going to take some time though to get the final results and make sure they do work. And what you're doing at the drug stores also very, very important.

Here is something else that I've suggested this to be done. The White House coronavirus task force experts like you, and Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx, Dr. Redfield, why aren't they meeting already with the incoming Biden administration coronavirus advisory council to start briefing them on what you know, so that when President-elect Biden takes office on January 20th they're ready to go, because American lives, as you well know, Mr. Secretary, are at stake right now?

AZAR: Well, Wolf, the important thing for the American people to know is that Vice President Biden's plan to deal with the coronavirus is eerily reminiscent of our plan and what we've been executing on and what we're executing on now.

They say we need PPE. We have been producing PPE, we've got 30, 60, 90-day supplies at our nursing homes, hospital states and the national strategic stock file.

They said we need to have testing. We've got over 120 million tests available in the month of November alone. 70 million of them we're rapid point of care test.

They said we need vaccines and therapeutics invested in. We put billions in, and we've delivered vaccines and therapeutic that are coming to the American people.

So I think there's a lot of continuity no matter what the circumstance. Obviously, if there's a transition, we're going to ensure that it's a professional, cooperative one because our mission is protecting the health and welfare of all Americans.

BLITZER: Because at risk right now, the lives of thousands and thousands of Americans. I would be encouraged, and I hope it happens very soon, if you and the others started meeting with Dr. Vivek Murthy, former Surgeon General of the United States, and others who are helping the president-elect get through this. It is so critically important.

You mentioned -- and this is really important on a practical level -- a new partnership with pharmacies to provide vaccines across the country. Tell us how this will work. The Pfizer vaccine, it has to be refrigerated at a really low temperature. I don't know if a lot of these pharmacies have refrigerators like that.

AZAR: Yes. So, Wolf, by the time we would be doing that broad pharmacy distribution, we'd be in larger mass public vaccination campaigns. So, initially, in December and January, we're going to be having very targeted vaccinations also helped in large part by some of our largest chains like Walgreens and CVS.

So in December, what we said is we believe we'll have enough vaccines for all of our most vulnerable citizens to get vaccinated, then January, enough for all of our senior citizens as well as our emergency first responders and health care workers.

And then we would move into progressively, as supplies come off the line, vaccinating more and more Americans to the point that by the end of March, early April, we think, across all of the vaccines that we have invested and we'd have enough for all Americans who wish to get vaccinated. And it's really during those stages that this broad community pharmacy program will be available.

You're right about the Pfizer vaccine and its cold chain storage requirements but we have many other candidates that are coming soon. We hope that we'll have lesser cold change, simple freezer requirements, for instance, that will enable that type of vaccination program. BLITZER: We got to go, I know you got a run, but what's the most important thing the American public should think about as we get ready for Thanksgiving?

AZAR: Wolf, we posted guidelines and recommendations at cdc.gov, coronavirus.gov, as you think about you're Thanksgiving gathering, please address those circumstances there. Reduce the number of people at your gathering.

If you can open the windows, let more ventilation in, very practical things, even if you have a ceiling fan, set it so that it pulls the air up instead of down. Use single-use servings for individuals, wear your face coverings. Because I want to make sure even if we make sacrifices this Thanksgiving and Christmas, the sacrifices are for a reason, so that everybody you want to be with will be here for next Thanksgiving and next Christmas.

BLITZER: And as I said, I'm grateful to you, Mr. Secretary, for saying that. I would be grateful, very pleased if the president of the United States were to follow your lead and say the same things because there are a lot of Americans out there who support him who are totally, totally opposed to putting on a face mask, to wearing a mask, and that is so dangerous right now.

Mr. Secretary, please come back. Thank you so much for all you're doing and we really appreciate it.

AZAR: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead, President-elect Joe Biden's lead is growing, and it's making it likely he'll win some states that still counting the votes right now. Stand by for that.

Plus, we'll talk to Cindy McCain, the widow of the late Republican senator, John McCain. She endorsed Joe Biden. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: President-elect Joe Biden's popular vote lead is growing by the hour as he remains in a strong position to win the still undecided races in both Arizona and Georgia. Let's get an update from our Senior Political Analyst, Mark Preston. Mark, give us the latest numbers.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, there's big news that have just came out of Arizona in the last couple hours. Now, officials in Arizona have audited 86 percent of the vote and they have found zero discrepancies in regard to fraud. And in some cases where they found microscopic instances, it was microscopic at best and said it would have no effect on the election.

Now, Joe Biden leads by 11,000 -- more than 11,000 votes. There are about 25,000 votes left to count. The state has to certify their data on November 30.

[18:45:04]

Let's go to Georgia right now where Joe Biden leads by more than 14,000 votes. You know, the secretary of state has called for a hand recount of the ballots. That's going to start tomorrow, Wolf, and it's going to go through until Wednesday. The counties need to certify their vote by next Friday. So we'll see what happens there.

Now, the secretary, I should note, Brad Raffensperger, is quarantining right now because his wife has tested positive for COVID, but state officials say that will have no effect on the count. In Pennsylvania, the state that gave Joe Biden the presidency, his lead continues to increase, 54,000 plus at this point, about 43,000 mail-in votes to be counted. That is remaining in Pennsylvania.

And look at this, Wolf, look at the popular vote right here. Joe Biden is on his way perhaps to 78 million voters who chose him to be president, the most ever in U.S. history. Look, he leads by more than 5 million votes right now over Donald Trump and he is on his way to collecting 306 electoral votes the same number that Donald Trump got back in 2016, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, he certainly is.

All right. Mark Preston, thank you very much.

Just ahead, the widow of the late Senator John McCain, Cindy McCain, she will join us. I'll get her reaction to the president's refusal to concede the election and we'll talk also about her role on Joe Biden's transition team. There, you see her.

We'll discuss when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:06]

BLITZER: As President Trump refuses to acknowledge his election loss and makes baseless claims about voter fraud, many top Republicans are enabling his denial.

Let's discuss with Cindy McCain. She's the widow of the late Republican Senator John McCain. She's now a member of the Biden transition advisory board.

Thanks so much for joining us.

I want to get your reaction to what we just heard, former President Obama just spoke out about the president's adamant refusal, at least so far, to accept the election results. He gave an interview to Scott Pelley of CBS News.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PELLEY, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: What are these false claims of widespread election fraud doing to our country right now?

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They appear to be motivated in part because the president doesn't like to lose, and never admits loss. I'm more troubled by the fact that other Republican officials who clearly know better are going along with this, are humoring him in this fashion. It is one more step in delegitimizing not just the incoming Biden administration, but democracy generally. And that's a dangerous path.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Are you, like the former president, troubled by -- do you think your late husband would be troubled by Republicans who are, quote, humoring the president right now?

CINDY MCCAIN, WIDOW OF JOHN MCCAIN: Yes, I do believe he would be very -- he'd be very troubled by this. As you know, he was -- he not only believed but lived the ideals of the democratic process. And the fact that our newly elected president, our president-elect, does not have access to any of the security briefings that he needs, does not have access to the folks within the administration that are working on the pandemic and on COVID itself, it's really -- it's not only a terrible thing to have happen, but it's also detrimental to this country. It's dangerous for this to occur.

It's time that the president get on the right side of history and make sure that our incoming president has all the things he needs to begin with his feet on the ground.

BLITZER: These are life and death issues. There are so many American lives on the line right now because of this coronavirus pandemic.

What do you think, Cindy, that Senator McCain, an icon in the Republican Party, would be saying to his former Senate colleagues right now who seem to be willing to simply disregard democracy baselessly back the president right now?

MCCAIN: Well, they used to call it going McCain on people. I think he'd be going McCain on all kinds of people, because that's not what we are. That's not what this democratic process is about.

We are a country that passes peaceful transition between administrations. That's the way it's always been. And I'm quite certain my husband would be yelling at the top of his lungs at his colleagues and with his colleagues to help stop this.

BLITZER: I'm sure he would have a significant impact at a sensitive moment like this. We all remember --

MCCAIN: He would.

BLITZER: -- how Senator McCain boldly went against President Trump, giving a thumbs-down vote on replacing the Affordable Care Act. Does it make sense to you that Republicans in Congress refuse to demonstrate even a fragment of that conviction even after the election is over and the president clearly now is a lame duck? MCCAIN: You know, I can't answer those questions, because I think each

person has to live with their own thoughts on this.

I do know that it's important that we remind -- we as citizens remind our elected officials that we demand from them the right to a free and fair election, and that we demand, more importantly, that a peaceful transition occur.

[18:55:08]

And most importantly, giving our president-elect the kinds of tools, he needs to enter office. But without that, I mean, who are we? We're no different than any other country that doesn't have free and fair elections.

BLITZER: Well said, indeed. Cindy McCain, thanks so much for joining us. We all miss Senator McCain, a great, great American and a great man indeed.

Thank you so much for joining us.

We're going to have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

You can always follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WolfBlitzer. You can always tweet the show @CNNSitRoom.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.