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The Situation Room

Interview with Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA); Donald Trump Jr. Tests Positive For COVID-19; Trump Tries to Cling to Power; U.S. Tops 253,000 COVID Deaths, Tops 11.8 Million Cases; Michigan State Lawmakers After Trump Meeting: Haven't Been Made Aware of Any Info that Would Change Election Outcome; Rudy Giuliani Self-Isolating After Son's Positive COVID-19 Diagnosis. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:17]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Tonight, president-elect Biden is taking new steps forward in the transition, while President Trump intensifies his desperate bid to try to cling to power. Biden and vice president-elect Kamala Harris meeting with the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer, as they urge Congress to pass a new coronavirus relief bill.

This as Mr. Trump is falsely claiming again that he won the election in a rare public appearance in which he again refused to answer any questions at all.

The current president then welcoming Republican state lawmakers from Michigan to the White House in the midst of his effort to undermine Biden's win of that critical battleground state. And while all that is happening, COVID-19 is spreading through this country at a record- breaking pace, with more than 187,000 new cases in one day and more than 2,000 deaths.

Our political correspondent, Arlette Saenz, has the latest on the Biden transition.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER (voice-over): With President Trump and his administration stonewalling the formal transition process, president-elect Joe Biden and Democratic leaders are presenting a united front.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thanks for coming up. There's a lot of work to do.

SAENZ: The incoming White House team huddling for the first time with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, with COVID-19 top of mind. REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We were discussing the lame-duck session, the urgency of crushing the virus and easing the pain of this economic crisis.

SAENZ: But Biden has yet to speak with the top Republican in Congress, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, even as he's had private talks with some GOP lawmakers.

RON KLAIN, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: They have been very kind to have these conversations and talk about ways they can work together going forward.

SAENZ: The Democratic confab is the latest attempt to show the president-elect has hit the ground running, as President Trump tries to challenge the election results.

BOB BAUER, ATTORNEY FOR BIDEN CAMPAIGN: While the president and his allies are ripping at the fabric of the democracy in any way they can, the fabric is not tearing. It's holding firm.

SAENZ: On Capitol Hill, House Democrats are demanding the GSA provide a briefing on the ascertainment delay, as the pressure campaign ramps up.

PELOSI: It is totally mystifying that the GSA refuses to make the statement necessary for the transition to happen in an orderly fashion. They have been sort of Trumpian from the start.

SAENZ: The president-elect is forging ahead, announcing more key White House staff, including his director of legislative affairs.

Biden is also speeding up his timeline for announcing his Cabinet picks, with the first nominees now expected to come before Thanksgiving, Biden revealing he's already decided on one key post, Treasury secretary.

BIDEN: You will soon hear my choice for Treasury.

SAENZ: With exactly two months until his inauguration, Biden today turned 78 years old, on path to become the oldest president in U.S. history.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ: And president-elect Joe Biden's team is making a major fund- raising push, trying to raise money for their transition efforts.

This comes as the transition team currently cannot access GSA funding, millions of dollars that they should have access to, but that they cannot access right now, due to the fact that the GSA has not ascertained Biden as the winner of this election.

And, Wolf, tomorrow here in Delaware, Biden will meet with his transition advisers, showing that he is keeping right at work as president-elect.

BLITZER: Yes, it's really important.

All right, Arlette, stand by. We're going to get back to you in a moment.

But I want to go to the White House right now. Getting new information.

Our White House correspondent is joining us right now, Boris Sanchez.

Boris, I understand you do have some new information on what's going on.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's correct, Wolf.

Just in the last few moments, CNN has been able to confirm news originally reported by Bloomberg. This is from my colleague Kaitlan Collins, who confirms that the president's son Donald Trump Jr. has tested positive for coronavirus.

I'm going to read a statement now from a spokesperson for Don Jr. They write -- quote -- "Don tested positive at the start of the week and has been quarantining out at his cabin since the result. He has been completely asymptomatic so far and is following all medically recommended COVID-19 guidelines."

So, again, the president's son Donald Trump Jr. testing positive for coronavirus. You will recall that earlier this summer his girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, tested positive for the virus. She eventually overcame it, no serious health issues there.

[18:05:04]

But Don Jr. now becomes the latest in a long string of officials close to the president, close to the White House who have contracted the virus. Just today, Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, we learned, is now in self-isolation because his son Andrew Giuliani, who's an assistant to the president, also tested positive for the virus.

Officials on the campaign, David Bossie, for example, also testing positive, as well as the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows. And that's just to name a few public figures associated with the president in just the last few weeks.

Clearly, this is major news, Don Jr. known on social media for mocking people who wear masks, for mocking Joe Biden for wearing masks, very ardent supporter of the president's cause, of the president's agenda.

And we should note that, as the president has been affixed on the idea that the election was somehow stolen from him, propagating conspiracy theories and sharing nonsense, this pandemic is still raging across the country, and now it is affecting his own son -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. And it's really a significant moment, because, as you pointed out, so many people, and now the president's own son Donald Trump Jr. confirmed, has COVID-19. And, hopefully, it's not going to be serious, but we don't know. We don't know the long-term impact of COVID-19.

Even if the -- if the condition is relatively mild, there could be long-term ramifications. There's a lot of people who've had it who complain months down the road, memory loss, toughness, and breathing. They can't exercise the way they used to exercise. There's so much we don't know about this disease, and now Donald Trump Jr. has it as well.

And we did learn, Boris, that the secretary of housing and urban development, Dr. Ben Carson, he had COVID-19, and today right now, we're just learning in a statement he was reportedly desperately ill, desperately ill. They required emergency medication for him, that monoclonal antibody cocktail that the president received at Walter Reed when he tested positive for COVID-19.

It seems all those events that the White House was organizing during the campaign and even since, all those super-spreader type events have had a direct impact.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely, Wolf.

And that's why it's so baffling that the White House would continue holding events with large numbers of people at the White House, whether on election night or other occasions at the Rose Garden, for example, especially after the president himself had such a difficult moment with this virus beyond that, the campaign events that I attended, many of them, with thousands of people not wearing masks, not social distancing.

It truly is baffling that the White House has handled the coronavirus the way that it has. And even if Donald Trump Jr., as it says in the statement, is asymptomatic and, fortunately, he doesn't deal with some of the awful ramifications of the virus, just the fact that he has it and could potentially spread it to other people, whether young or old, who have preexisting conditions that make them more susceptible to the horrible things that this virus can do to the body, that, in itself, is a reason to take precaution.

And, further, as you noted, Wolf, we don't know all that much about the long-term effects of this virus. So, seeing the White House having handled this virus this way from the beginning, with the president spreading misinformation, admittedly trying to play down, as he told Bob Woodward in a number of interviews, it is truly baffling and infuriating, especially as we get into these winter months, and we watch the epidemic spread further and further, surging across so many states across the entire country, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, it's really, really a serious situation.

You would think they would learn from all of this. Clearly, they have not learned from all of this.

Boris, stand by.

I want to bring in Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our chief medical correspondent. So, Sanjay, first of all, what's your reaction to the news that the president's son Donald Trump Jr. has now tested positive for coronavirus?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, my reaction is, I hope he does well with this. He's -- I guess he's in his early 40s. So he has his age on his side.

And, Wolf, as frightening as this is, as you know, since March, we have been reminding people that the vast majority of people do recover from this, and a large percentage don't even really have much in the way of symptoms or just minimal symptoms. And it sounds like that's the case with him as well.

But, as you were just bringing up with Boris Sanchez, you don't want to get this infection. You don't want it. I mean, nothing that anybody has said to say, look, I'm OK to get this, I will just power through it. That is not a good strategy. It behaves differently in different people.

And, as you point out, Wolf, these long-hauling symptoms that we talked about are of concern. I mean, I thought the long-hauler symptoms would be more likely to occur in people who had serious disease. But, as we're learning from some of these studies coming out of Mount Sinai and other places, even people who have minimal symptoms can still have persistent symptoms.

[18:10:18]

So, I wish him well. And I'm glad that it sounds like, from Kaitlan's reporting, that he is abiding by the isolation now guidelines. When you have the infection, you isolate. If you are suspected of having the infection, you quarantine. He has it. So he needs to be isolating now, and he will probably continue to get tested.

BLITZER: Yes.

No, and, of course, all of us wish him a speedy recovery.

But I just want to elaborate for a moment, Sanjay, while I have you, because I know people who have had COVID-19. They have tested positive, relatively young people, maybe in their 40s or 50s, who, months later, still have ramifications, still have an impact. They're not exercising, running, They're not breathing necessarily the way they used to.

And some of them complain about memory fog. Talk a little bit about that.

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, it's this respiratory virus. You think about a respiratory virus primarily affecting the respiratory system, the lungs, this is an unusual virus.

It does seem to affect just about every organ system in the body. And we don't know how long these long-hauling symptoms will last, because the only way we're going to really know that is with the passage of time.

But if you go back and even look at some of the early data that came out of Wuhan, I was really struck -- and I'm talking about February- March time frame -- by exactly -- the stories of exactly what you're talking about, Wolf, people who were young, otherwise healthy, maybe even runners, athletes, who say that they would have trouble being able to walk a few blocks, even weeks, if not months after their first diagnosis.

Go back even further to the days of SARS, another coronavirus, and patients might develop some sort of longer-lasting lung problems. It does seem to be rare. And, again, I really hope that he doesn't have any of this stuff.

But I think the point is, the point you're making, the point I'm making, is, you don't want this. Even if you think, I'm young and healthy and will have minimal symptoms, you don't want it. We're still learning so much about this virus.

The way to immunize yourself is to not -- is not to get it. It's to ultimately get the vaccine, which is looming on the horizon now, with all the good news we have been talking about the past few days. So, we also know, as you pointed out, Ben Carson, Secretary Carson, received monoclonal antibodies, I think, probably because of his age, maybe is more vulnerability because of that.

I don't think that Don Jr. would need that. But I'm curious what he's going to do. If he's feeling fine, hopefully, he will just recover and not need anything else.

BLITZER: Yes, well, let's see what happens on that front.

Gloria, Donald Trump Jr. one of many, an increasing number of the president's inner circle who have now tested positive. We could list them on and on and on. Does that reflect the way the White House and the president have handled this pandemic in general?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it does.

Sanjay keeps talking about the right way to model behavior. And what I think we should expect from our nation's leaders, particularly those living in the White House, is modeling for the entire country.

And, instead, what you have in the White House is a president who, after a while, came around to saying, OK, it's OK to wear masks. You have Dr. Scott Atlas, who says you don't need to mask up, it's ridiculous, talk about herd immunity at one point.

That's not what the country should be seeing from the nation's leaders, particularly the one in the Oval Office. And, obviously, everyone wishes Don Jr. well, doesn't want him to have a terrible case of COVID. But what we can see from looking at this, from the outside looking in, is that the White House itself became a hot spot.

White House activities became dangerous for Secret Service agents, for people who were at these rallies, who became infected, and, of course, we know that even for the president himself, who got COVID.

So this is kind of a lesson in what not to do, as opposed to what you should do.

BLITZER: Governor Kasich, more than a quarter-of-a-million Americans now have tested positive over these months for COVID.

And yet, even at this sensitive moment and even as the president's son Donald Trump Jr. now has coronavirus, even at this sensitive moment, the outgoing administration is still refusing to cooperate with the incoming administration in terms of helping them get ready for this -- despite the fact that there might be a vaccine, to get ready for dealing with this crisis after January 20.

It's really an explicable to me, but maybe you understand it.

[18:15:03]

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I don't, Wolf. It's crazy. And I was really, really intense about this the other day. And I feel so strongly, because this administration has an obligation to work with the incoming administration, because look at the outbreaks that are happening right now.

And I have just been so -- I remain completely disappointed, frustrated and angry with leaders in the Republican Party that haven't stood up and said, hey, however you want to get this election thing resolved, fine, but give them the information.

I mean, think about what the massive job it is getting this vaccine to people all across the country. What's the schedule? What are the priorities? How do we move these things around? I'm sure that the Biden people are working on this aggressively with all the logistics experts they can find, both probably in government and outside of government.

But they're handcuffed. It makes no -- it makes absolutely no sense at all.

Wolf, what I will tell you out here in the heartland, out here in Columbus, Ohio, is, yes, there still are a number of young people that are going out seemingly oblivious to this problem.

But I have listened to the last few days of people and the plans they're making for the Thanksgiving holiday. And I find a lot of people saying, no, we're not going to have the whole family here. Nope, we're not going to do that. Nope, we're not traveling anywhere. And it's going to be very small, very immediate.

I'm hearing that from many, many people. And if people do have to travel, if it's vital for them or critical for them to get home, I think there are more and more Americans every day waking up to the fact that Sanjay is right, that Gloria is right, that people are beginning to say, look, enough of this already, let's get through this. And here's the thing, Wolf. The good news is, these vaccines are right

around the corner, right around the corner. And so it's sort of like we just have to get through this period because there's now light at the end of the tunnel that has been very dark.

BLITZER: And, as you can see, nearly 254,000 Americans have already died from coronavirus, and thousands more are expected to die in the next weeks and months as a result of what's going on. Let's hope this vaccine, the vaccines are safe and effective, and they're available very, very soon.

But unless people take action, and make sure they wear masks and social distance and all of that, there's going to be still a horrific, horrific situation.

Everybody, stand by. We're going to continue all of the breaking news coverage.

I'm also going to speak live with Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania about deep concerns the president may try to lobby Republicans to undermine president-elect Biden's win in Pennsylvania.

And, as Rudy Giuliani is now self-isolating after COVID-19 exposure, we will take a closer look at the state of his reputation after a truth-defying news conference.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:22:19]

BLITZER: We're back with the breaking news on President Trump's efforts to undermine the election results.

He's been holding a very concerning meeting with Republican state lawmakers from the key battleground state of Michigan, where Biden won impressively. We're told he may try a similar ploy with state legislators from Pennsylvania, where Biden also won impressively.

We're joined by Senator Bob Casey, Democrat of Pennsylvania.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to get to all of that. But we just learned the breaking news that the president's son Donald Trump Jr. has tested positive for coronavirus. So what's your reaction when you hear this news?

SEN. BOB CASEY (D-PA): Well, I sure hope that he's OK and that he will recover quickly.

I think it's a reminder, Wolf, that this virus is raging everywhere, and no one is safe from it. And that's why all the steps that we have been talking about all these months, all of us have to continue to follow with regard to wearing a mask and washing hands and social distancing, especially at this time of the year, as it gets colder and we're celebrating holidays. So, we hope he gets better, but we have got a long way to go. I think

it's also another reminder that, because the virus is still raging, because the economy's in the ditch, we need a relief bill when we go back in December. We should get that done before the 1st of the year.

BLITZER: I hope you do, because there are a lot of people who are desperately in need right now all around the country. They have been waiting and waiting and waiting. And, sadly, the House and the Senate have not been able to put it together. There's no deal yet with the administration. But that is a high, high priority.

As you know, Senator, sources are telling CNN that President Trump has expressed interest in inviting Republican state legislators from your state of Pennsylvania to come to the White House, as he continues to try to insert himself in the election certification process.

So, what's your reaction to learning the president is now eying Pennsylvania?

CASEY: Well, I think it's an abuse of the power of his office.

And it's insulting to the voters of our state. It's insulting to the voters across the country in both parties. I'm sure that if a legislator is invited to the White House, they will probably go.

But I don't think it will work, Wolf. And I use not just some optimism and some faith in the constitutional adherence of Donald Trump. I use as my resource or my evidence that it won't work Republican leaders in Pennsylvania.

Just giving you an example, yesterday, the president pro tempore, the top position in the state Senate, held by Senator Jake Corman, a leading Republican, the leading Republican in the Senate, here's what he said yesterday about this question -- quote -- "The law states that, when the secretary of the state certifies the election, the governor appoints the electors. That's the law, and we will follow the law" -- unquote.

[18:25:08]

He said that yesterday in "The Philadelphia Inquirer."

So, I think the president's attempt here will fail, but it's insulting. It's disturbing. And I think it's a constitutional crime.

BLITZER: And Biden carried Pennsylvania by more than 80,000 votes. That's almost double what Trump carried Pennsylvania four years ago.

It's not easy to reverse 80,000-plus votes. As you know, Senator, Republican lawmakers, they were -- from Michigan, I should point out -- were at the White House today for a meeting. The press secretary at the White House insists this was not -- quote -- "advocacy."

But the timing certainly does raise a lot of suspicions about what's going on behind the scenes.

CASEY: I doubt he just wanted to wish them happy Thanksgiving.

But I hope that -- I hope that Republican legislators will not undermine the very election that elected a lot of their members. In our state, we had seats in the General Assembly, the state House and state Senate. They were running on the same ballot.

So, if you're going to -- if you're going to undermine the election, you're undermining the votes received by your own Republican members.

I don't think that will happen in Pennsylvania. I can't speak for Michigan.

BLITZER: At the end of another week of the president's repeated attempts to undermine our democracy, we have still -- and this is so sad to report this -- we have only heard from a handful of your Republican senatorial colleagues.

We have heard from Mitt Romney, who says it's difficult to imagine, in his words, a worse, more undemocratic action by a sitting American president. Senator Ben Sasse, he discounted the president's legal strategy, saying -- and I'm quoting him now -- "We are a nation of laws, not tweets."

Where are the rest of your Republican Senate colleagues? Why aren't they speaking out? And why isn't the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, recognizing what has happened and doing the right thing?

CASEY: Well, your -- one of your earlier guests, Bob Woodward, wrote a book that was entitled "Fear."

And I think that's what it is. It's fear of the president's retaliation. But Republican senators should not be hiding under their desk and they shouldn't be genuflecting to a president who's engaged in this kind of unlawful conduct.

It's so violative and so insulting to the Constitution of the United States. They should all stand up. I'm glad that Senator Romney, Senator Sasse and a few others have spoken up. But the silence is deafening in terms of their support for democracy.

If they don't support free and fair elections, how can they say they support democracy? So, I hope some of them will develop a spine in the next couple days.

BLITZER: I hope so, too, because it's the right thing to do. It's hard to believe this is happening right now in our country.

Senator Bob Casey, thank you so much for joining us.

CASEY: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good luck to you. Stay safe out there.

Just ahead: Pfizer sets the wheels in motion for a COVID-19 vaccine with a request to the FDA, as the virus is shattering records here in the U.S. every day. And I will ask Michigan's secretary of state if the president's

meeting with GOP lawmakers from her state is raising red flags.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: We're following breaking news. The president's son, Donald Trump Jr., has tested positive for the coronavirus. This as the United States now surpasses 253,000 deaths from COVID-19 with more than 11.8 million confirmed cases reported as this, the second wave of the pandemic, rages at a record-breaking pace right now.

Let's get more from CNN's Nick Watt joining us from Los Angeles. Update our viewers Nick on the latest.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, here are just some of the states setting records today, the most cases ever in a single day, Kentucky, Utah, Michigan, California. It has been a brutal November in the Midwest and out here in the west. And as Dr. Fauci keeps on saying, help is on its way. But it is not here yet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (voice over): Today, Pfizer and BioNTech submitted their COVID-19 vaccine to the FDA for emergency use authorization. There could be shots in some arms before New Year.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: This pandemic will start getting better once we get into February and March. And by April and May, things will be dramatically better.

WATT: But what about now? Thursday, a record number of new cases, more than 187,000, a record number of people in the hospital, more than 80,000, and, for the first time since early may, more than 2,000 lives reported lost to COVID-19 in a single day.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE COORDINATOR: So, this is faster. It's is broader. And what worries me, it could be longer.

WATT: Today in Illinois, movie theaters, museums, indoor bars all closed again. Tomorrow night, 10:00 P.M. an overnight curfew kicks in across much of California.

DR. MARK GHALY, CALIFORNIA HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We too are seeing this surge growing faster and faster, and we must address it immediately.

WATT: In New York --

[18:35:00]

UKNOWN SPEAKERS: Open our schools. Open our Schools. WATT: -- schools just closed after the city's positivity rate crept to 3 percent. Tempers are high.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why can a child go to a restaurant, why can a child go everywhere else but school? There is no excuse.

WATT: Now, we hear that New York City restaurants might close again after Thanksgiving and the schools might actually reopen.

DR. JAY VARMA, SENIOR ADVISER FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, NYC MAYOR'S OFFICE: The plan right now is to work on a plan so that after the Thanksgiving break, we can bring everybody back into the schools and we are going to adjust and adapt our protocols so that we can continue to do in- person learning.

WATT: The latest signs suggest schools are not super-spreaders.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: My feeling, is that that the full position, keep the schools open if you possibly can.

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: Our big threat for transmission is not the public square. It is small family gathering.

WATT: The CDC and some states advising us not to travel over Thanksgiving. Utah had said just one household for dinner, but --

GOV. GARY HERBERT (R-UT): We are taking that out of the order. What you do in the confines of your home is going to be up to you. But we also are given strong recommendations of how you conduct that in a safe environment.

WATT: Today, ten months since the first confirmed case in this country, we're still unsure. Close schools, keep restaurants open or vice versa, a strict rule best or just recommendation, is personal freedom the priority or the health of others?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): Now, the FDA has just announced that December 10th, their outside advisory panel will meet to discuss that Pfizer vaccine.

Now, the FDA won't say how long this whole review process will take. They say that they will do it as quickly as possible. And according to the vice president, within 48 hours of a vaccine being authorized, the first Americans will be getting it in their arms. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Nick, thank you very much. Nick Watt, reporting for us.

Joining us now Dr. Tom Frieden, former Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Frieden, thanks so much for joining us.

Let me get your thoughts on this very impressive vaccine development program. Pfizer formally officially filing for what's called emergency use authorization today. Give us your sense, how significant is this step and what does it mean in terms of timing for the American public?

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: Well, this is really very encouraging. The data that has come out from Pfizer, which we have only seen in press releases so far, is better than any of us expected, more than 90 percent effectiveness, effective in older people, effective against severe illness. This is what we had most hope for. But it's not just around the corner. A vaccine rollout is going to take a long time. It's not a vaccine that saves lives at the vaccination program.

Early in this year, Wolf, they were saying in Operation Warp Speed they were hoping for 300 million doses by the end of the year. Now, they're saying 45 million doses by the end of the year. 45 million doses is fantastic. It's a great result but it's far short of what we're going to need for overall protection. What we hope will happen is that data will be verified to be accurate, that it will be safe and effective, and we'll roll out vaccination to the highest risk groups first.

For example, health workers and staff of nursing homes and residents of nursing homes, as well as health care workers, more generally, and at-risk people, this is crucially important. And that is up to the CDC advisory committee, which will meet right after the FDA advisory committee meets.

BLITZER: A lot of people are skeptical though. How do you convince those in the American public, and there will be millions of them, as you know, Dr. Frieden, and say, you know what, I am going to wait, I don't trust this yet, what do you say to them?

FRIEDEN: I think you have to be perfectly open and honest. Yes, this is a new vaccine. We have not used mRNA vaccines before. It appears to be highly effective. It doesn't appear to have short-term adverse events. But 40,000 people have participated in the trials. When we give it to millions of people, we could find a problem and we'll look hard for it and share that information openly.

Trust has to be rebuilt because it's been broken by the approach to the pandemic so far. But being in this together, understanding that the more we work together, the more of us who wear masks, the safer we all are, the more of us who get vaccinated, the safer we will all be.

BLITZER: We're only a few days away from Thanksgiving. You tweeted a very powerful warning, and I'm quoting you now, better a Zoom Thanksgiving than an ICU Christmas. So what advice do you have for families out there who are deciding how to celebrate Thanksgiving?

FRIEDEN: Unfortunately, when people travel, the virus travels. So if you can, have Thanksgiving at home with your own family. If you do plan to be with others, there are a lot of things you going to need to do to reduce that risk. Because when you go over, you may bring the virus over or get the virus, you may spread it to someone.

[18:40:05]

We want to make sure that our loved ones are here not only for this holiday but for the next holidays also. We don't want to spread COVID over Thanksgiving.

BLITZER: Yes, Zoom, it's very, very safe. I got to tell you, it's a very safe thing to do. I call it The Situation Zoom, and that's what we will all be doing on this Thanksgiving.

All right, Dr. Friedman, thank you very much.

FRIEDEN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And just ahead, I'll speak with the Michigan secretary of state about the president's undemocratic attempts to get lawmakers to undermine the will of the voters.

Plus, we will have more on Rudy Giuliani exposed to COVID-19 after a bizarre news conference that made it harder than ever to remember him as America's mayor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:18]

BLITZER: We have more breaking news of the president's norm-defying meeting with Michigan state lawmakers over at the White House as he seeks to overturn the election results. The state's senate majority leader and state house speaker just issued a joint statement. They say they have not been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan. They are vowing to follow the law and the normal process regarding Michigan's electors.

Let's discuss with Michigan's top election official, the secretary of state of Michigan, Jocelyn Benson.

Secretary Benson, thanks so much for joining us.

We just checked. Biden carried your state of Michigan by 154,187 votes. We're not talking about 500, or 1,000 votes or even 5 -- we're talking 154,000 votes.

There's this joint statement from the leaders who met -- who met with the president at the White House.

Did it give you confidence a leadership in Michigan will honor their commitment to respect the will of the Michigan voters?

JOCELYN BENSON, MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: It certainly does, Wolf. And, you know, I think it's very clear that the people of Michigan have spoken. There's been no legal or factual basis for to any question the choice they have made. As you mentioned, the margin is quite clear, not just in the race, but in the U.S. Senate race, and several others as well.

And so, I think, you know, just as we've accepted every county certification, we expect the state board of canvassers to do the same. And we expect everyone in a position of authority to follow the law in Michigan, in respect to the will of the voters. One portion of their joint statement, these legislators who met with

the president at the White House, reads as follows: Michigan certification process should be a deliberate process free from threats and intimidation.

How do you interpret that?

BENSON: Well, I would say that's an accurate statement of the certification canvass process. It's been going on since the polls closed on November 3rd. What happens then is every county does a canvas. That has then -- that has since happen. Every county certifies that canvas, that has since happened. And then the state board of canvassers issues the final certification, making the results official.

So, the canvas actually is a thorough, deliberative process. And there's been so much scrutiny on this election in Michigan, and in many other states as well. That's certainly the fact that there's been no irregularities, no widespread fraud that has emerged in any evidentiary fashion throughout this canvas, and throughout this very clear process that we've had these past two weeks, speaks volumes.

And so, I expect, again, the state board of canvassers when they meet on Monday to finalize and make official the results of Michigan's election, so we can move forward with the plan statewide and local audience of the county.

BLITZER: It's only been a little while, but if you had a chance to speak with the Republican lawmakers cement at the White House with the president --

BENSON: I have not and, you know, I have said repeatedly, I know both these gentlemen as well as many of the lawmakers who were there today. And they believe in the rule of law. And I assume it's said publicly throughout the process, they will follow the will of voters -- the will of the voters. We've seen nothing that should cause us to doubt it. And again, we have made a clear statement from the voters through the vote count that's been tabulated.

So, I think we can move forward. I'm hopeful that we can. And then begin the process of after the county certified auditing the election statewide and locally and continue to improve our elections here in Michigan and collaborate on those improvements across the aisle.

BLITZER: Given the president's efforts, Secretary Benson, to try to overturn the election results in Michigan, wild accusations made by Rudy Giuliani and his legal colleagues alleging widespread massive fraud in Michigan, totally without any foundation at all, was it a mistake, do you believe, for these two Republican lawmakers to agree to come to Washington and go to the Oval Office for this meeting with the president?

BENSON: You know, I'm not going to question their motivation, or what went into their decision, and all of that. But I will say that we've got two distinct things happening here. On one side, we got the facts, and the law, and the voters, who have spoken. On the other side, we got a PR campaign that's been designed to consistently to erode voters' faith in the elections, and the integrity, and the accuracy of the results. And so, I do think any elected official that does anything that departs from the facts, the truth, and tries to weigh in or further the more political agenda that is really an unfortunate tactic for anyone to take, is something that, you know, I would say is ill-advised.

But that said, again, as long as we continue to move forward collaboratively in the state with our leaders focusing on facts and data, and the will of the voters and the voice of the voters, I believe will be in a good place for democracy, and ultimately get to a place where we can celebrate the successful election that we were able to have here in Michigan with record-breaking turnout and no irregularities.

BLITZER: Clearly, the president and Rudy Giuliani's efforts to go and try to undermine the election in Michigan and Pennsylvania, and Georgia and elsewhere. Clearly, those efforts are going nowhere right now.

The Michigan secretary of state, Jocelyn Benson, thanks so much for joining us. Good luck.

BENSON: Always a pleasure, Wolf. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

There is more breaking news we're following right now as Donald Trump Jr. has now tested positive for COVID-19. We're also learning that Rudy Giuliani is now self-isolating after his son's COVID-19 diagnosis.

CNN's Brian Todd is joining us right now.

Brian, Giuliani and his son were both at the rather bizarre news conference yesterday that's raising so many questions about Rudy Giuliani's legacy.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of those questions circulating tonight, Wolf. And no easy answers to them. But what many observers do believe, though, is that this is a very different man from the ones rising Republican star who once had a credible shot at the presidency.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Good afternoon --

TODD (voice-over): A news conference that was laced with falsehoods and conspiracy theories.

GIULIANI: This is really enough, enough to overturn any election.

TODD: President Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and his legal team, made bogus claims about fraudulent votes and corrupt vote counting in states that Trump lost. GIULIANI: If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin by a good

margin. Indeed, if you count the lawful votes in Pennsylvania, he won by about 300,000 votes.

TODD: Black liquid streamed down Giuliani's face at one point. It was an event that "The Daily Beast" called unhinged. "The New York Times" called it rambling.

A "Washington Post" headline said it was part of Giuliani's post- election meltdown. Giuliani's team even claimed that the techniques for this election fraud were exported from China and Venezuela, claims which have no merit.

For some who've worked with Giuliani, it was an unfortunate spectacle.

JOHN AVLON, FORMER CHIEF SPEECHWRITER FOR RUDY GIULIANI: It has been heart-wrenching to see him destroyed his legacy.

KEN FRYDMAN, PRESS SECRETARY FOR GIULIANI'S 1993 MAYORAL CAMPAIGN: It saddens me every time I see him, because I know -- I know what a strong and confident, and competent person he was when I was working for him.

TODD: Prior to the election, Giuliani spent months trying to discredit theories about Joe Biden's family in Ukraine. FBI investigators had asked at least one witness about possible origins of some of the material used, and possible connections to Russian intelligence.

For some, it's a far cry from the no nonsense, hard charging prosecutor who as a U.S. attorney in Manhattan in the 1980s famously went after some heavy hitters on Wall Street and took on the five heads of the New York crime families.

SETH HETTENA, ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE: He did some serious damage to the mob. He was targeted for assassination. He had a security detail with him. And he went after Wall Street titans, took them down. He was fearless.

TODD: That launched Giuliani on a path to becoming New York's mayor, went from 1994 to 2001, he was credited with turning the city around.

GIULIANI: Put your mask on.

TODD: On 9/11, Giuliani's resolve and steadiness reassured a shell- shocked city and the nation.

AVLON: He was somebody who was calm under fire. He showed grace under pressure. He confronted difficult facts honestly. He found a way to unite people in a moment of grief with resolve.

TODD: He was dubbed America's mayor, knighted by Queen Elizabeth. He launched a failed campaign for the presidency in 2008. What was it that led to a string of bizarre episodes we're seeing now? Some believe it was hitching his walk into Donald Trump.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a great person. He's an iconic figure in the country.

TODD: One journalist says 9/11, possibly Giuliani's greatest moment might also have precipitated a change in him.

HETTENA: It exposed him to a level of fame and adulation that he's spent the rest of his life trying to regain. And he's never quite gotten there. He's almost tried, it's become increasingly desperate.

AVLON: All I can say for sure is that his judgment is not what it was. And that's self evident to the people who've known him and who worked with him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): We reached out to Rudy Giuliani for comment on our story on him. His communications director, Christianne Allen, sent us a text saying, quote, it is offensive and embarrassing even for CNN to peddle such insults at an American hero -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us. Brian, thank you very much.

We'll have more news just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:59:13]

BLITZER: Finally, finally, we end another difficult week, and a much happier note, a new addition to THE SITUATION ROOM family.

Congratulations to our Gloria Borger and her husband, Lance Morgan. They have a newborn grandson. Look at that. Andrew Roberts Morgan.

Their son Stephen Morgan and daughter-in-law Megan Roberts welcomed him just today. And get this, that sweet little boy weighing in at a whooping 10 pounds, two ounces. We are so, so happy for the Borger, Morgan and Roberts family on the arrival of this really beautiful, very big baby boy. Again, congratulations to all.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. I will be back tomorrow 7:00 p.m. Eastern, for a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

You can always follow me on Twitter, and Instagram, @WolfBlitzer.

Tweet the show @CNNSitRoom.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.