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Anthony Blinken on Top of Biden's List for Secretary of State; Trump Lawyers Distance Themselves from Attorney Sidney Powell; Key Michigan Canvassing Board Member Might Vote Against Certification; Interview with Michigan's Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson (D) about Certification of Election Results; U.S. Reports More Than 100,000 Cases of COVID-19 for 20th Straight Day; Interview with Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham (D-NM) about Biden's Cabinet Picks; Hillary Clinton, First Lady, Senator, Secretary of State and Presidential Candidate. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired November 22, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Well said indeed. Chris Cillizza, thanks as usual for joining us.

CILLIZZA: Thank you. Wolf.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BLITZER: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

We begin this hour with news on some of the names who could fill the cabinet of President-Elect Joe Biden. Sources now tell CNN that secretary of State position will be among them and that Tony Blinken is a top contender for that spot. It's a choice that would elevate a longtime foreign adviser into one of the most visible positions in the cabinet.

Tony Blinken is a former deputy secretary of State under President Obama, was number two at the State Department.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is joining us from Wilmington, Delaware, right now.

Arlette, you're following all these transition developments so closely. So give us the latest. What are we hearing? What do we know?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, President- elect Joe Biden is slated to roll out his first cabinet picks on Tuesday. And we're learning that among those are expected to be the position of secretary of State. And as you mentioned, the leading contender for that job is Tony Blinken. Someone who previously served as deputy secretary of State and has known Joe Biden for decades, going back to Biden's time in the Senate. He also served as National Security adviser to Biden while he was vice president. And Tony Blinken was actually here in Wilmington, Delaware, meeting

with Biden and other national security experts during a virtual briefing. We saw the two of them walking out of the Queen Theater together last week.

And we're also learning that in addition to Biden announcing his -- expected to announce his secretary of State on Tuesday, there are other foreign policy minded roles that he is also going to be announcing. Our colleagues Jeff Zeleny and Dan Merica are reporting that in addition to secretary of State, Biden is expected to be naming his National Security adviser and also his ambassador to the U.N.

Now for that National Security adviser job, one of the top contenders is Jake Sullivan. This is someone who also served as National Security adviser to Biden during his time as vice president. And then for that position of ambassador to the U.N., one of the leading contenders for that is a woman named Linda Thomas-Greenfield. She previously served in the State Department. She is a longtime diplomat and what -- and she is also a black woman. So that is also speaking to the diversity that Biden is trying to assemble in his cabinet.

But when you look at these possible contenders for these top foreign policy jobs, one thing that Joe Biden is consistently doing is leaning on people with a lot of experience. He -- one of the main goals that Biden has said during the campaign in his presidency would be restoring America's standing in the world and also repairing relationships with allies and going with candidates for these positions like Tony Blinken and Jake Sullivan and Linda Thomas- Greenfield shows that he would be leaning into that experience factor as he is starting to build out these cabinet positions that will lead his administration.

BLITZER: All right, Arlette, I want you to stand by. We're going to get back to you. I know you're working your sources over there as well.

But let's go to the White House right now. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is on the scene for us.

Joe Biden forming his cabinet, getting ready for major cabinet positions to announce in the next few days, while at the same time, Jeremy, the outgoing president, President Trump, will not let go of this notion that he is somehow staying in office.

What's the latest? What are you hearing tonight?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. President Trump is continuing to contest this election, refusing to concede, even as his legal -- his pathway to the presidency via any legal challenges is rapidly evaporating, Wolf, if it hasn't already frankly vanished. Last night, we saw the president suffer a major defeat in federal court in Pennsylvania where the federal judge there essentially laughed the president's case out of the room saying that Rudy Giuliani, the president's attorney, had presented a case with almost no evidence and one with very little actual legal merit. Now the president's legal team is also experiencing a shakeup this

evening, Wolf. The president's attorneys Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis announcing that Sidney Powell, an attorney who has been with the -- representing the president's legal effort for the last week, that she is no longer with the team. In fact, they're portraying it as if she never was a member of the team, but as you can see on your screen right now, that's frankly not even close to the case.

Sidney Powell, this attorney, appeared alongside Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis during this news conference just a few days ago at the Republican National Committee headquarters here in Washington, where she continued to do what she's been doing for the last several weeks, which is spread these baseless, debunked, crazed conspiracy theories about the 2020 election.

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She has claimed that the CIA, that the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez as well as Georgia's Republican Governor Brian Kemp, claiming baseless that they have all been involved in rigging this election. And now while Sidney Powell certainly has been further out there in terms of crazy conspiracy theories about this election, many of those conspiracy theories are very close to what the president himself and Rudy Giuliani have also been spreading over the last week, Wolf.

They have been talking about this conspiracy theory involving Dominion voting software, saying that this software deleted votes for the president. Zero evidence of that. In fact, it was repeatedly debunked not only by state election officials but also by the top cybersecurity official at the Department of Homeland Security, who the president of course later fired because he debunked a conspiracy theory that the president was spreading.

But, Wolf, there's no question that there are starting to be cracks in the Republican wall of support that the president has really been enjoying over these last two weeks. The longer the president draws out his refusal to concede, it certainly seems like more Republicans are starting to lose patience, calling at a minimum for the transition to begin, if not for the president to concede this election all together -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. You're absolutely right. All right, Jeremy Diamond, at the White House, thank you very much.

The Trump campaign and its allies, they now have lost or withdrawn about 30 cases seeking to block votes in key states that went for President-elect Joe Biden. But in Michigan, the fate of 5.5 million votes may come down to one man. The Michigan State Board of Canvassers is set to meet Monday, tomorrow, to certify the state's election results. And a Republican member of that board has indicated he will vote against certification.

If the other Republican joins him and the two Democrats on the board vote for certification, the vote potentially could be deadlocked. This despite Joe Biden's decisive 154,000 vote lead dwarfing Donald Trump's 2016 margin of victory over Hillary Clinton in Michigan. That was just over 10,000 votes.

Let's go to our national correspondent Kristen Holmes, who's joining us right now.

Kristen, tell us more about what's at stake, what potentially could unfold in Michigan tomorrow?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, well, in the most dramatic of scenarios, 16 electoral votes that the state of Michigan have are potentially at stake. Now this an unprecedented scenario, much like everything we've seen this election. And just to kind of go back to Saturday. On Saturday night, Michigan Republicans and the RNC sent a letter to the Board of Canvassers asking them to delay the certification of the state until an audit had been done in Wayne County.

Wayne County is Michigan's largest county and it is the home of Detroit. We heard learned a lot of baseless allegations of fraud. None of them have been proven all over circling around Detroit. So now we have learned that this Board of Canvassers, four people, it's two Republicans, two Democrats, they certify the election after all the counties have done so. And this is generally a routine process.

However, one of the Republicans has -- we've been told, has said that they won't certify. That they are expected not to do so and that they want to wait until this audit.

Wolf, this again -- there's no state law that says that this is allowed or not allowed. This has never happened before. This is again usually cut and dry. The people vote. Whoever has the majority of the vote, it gets certified into the election. This is generally just a check mark. So this is now coming down to that other Republican, as you said, on the Board of Canvassers, and what exactly he will do.

CNN of course has tried to be in contact with him. We have not heard back from him on what he is intending to do tomorrow. But this really comes down to one man. And remember this, those Republican state leaders, they went and saw President Trump at the White House on Friday. He invited them up there. And afterwards, they said they didn't see how this election could go any other way. There hadn't been any evidence of widespread fraud.

Yet again we are hearing that this one Republican member of the Board of Canvassers is thinking about not certifying. So we have heard from several different lawmakers. Debbie Dingell, a Democrat representative from Michigan, was on earlier. She said that the laws says you have to certify and then have an audit. But it's unclear what exactly will happen if they do not certify. What are the next steps there? So something we're watching very closely.

BLITZER: Well, maybe we'll get some answers right now. Kristen Holmes, stand by.

I want to bring in Michigan's secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson.

Secretary Benson, thank you so much for joining us. When we spoke on Friday, you expected the count would be certified tomorrow. Is that in doubt right now? What's the latest? What's going on?

JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I think, one, we have to remember the law is actually very clear as been said consistently through a number of voices, including all four most recent governors of the state of Michigan on both sides of the aisle who have confirmed and reaffirmed the view that under the law, the count and the election clearly should be certified.

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The role of the State Board of Canvassers is also very clearly defined in the law. It says they shall certify the election. And the law also very clearly says, after that certification, any audits can begin. We've talked about repeatedly how we're going to will do a risk- limiting statewide audit shortly after the certification as well as local procedural audits to evaluate any bookkeeping or clerical errors that emerged in the canvass.

So we're on track to continue to do our work here in Michigan. And I expect everyone in a position of authority to do their role that is clearly defined under the law. And we have to remember there's lots of protocols for enforcing the law if indeed that law is broken.

BLITZER: Yes. It was not even a close vote in Michigan. We checked a little while ago. Biden beat Trump by 154,187 votes.

So, Secretary, if it's a two-to-two tie tomorrow, we don't know if it will be, would you be headed for some sort of constitutional crisis? Walk us through that contingency.

BENSON: No. I think it's ill-advised to use words like constitutional crisis. I know some have thrown those around. But it's actually very clearly defined in the law what occurs when someone doesn't fulfill their duty or if in any way the law is violated. There's a court in place that can then enforce the law. And there's again lots of other protocols in place in multiple ways to continue to ensure that the very clear will of the voters, as you mentioned, not just in the presidential race but several other races, is affirmed in the certification process, and then after that any recounts or audits that may happen even in local races can proceed at that point.

So I'm confident. We haven't seen any actual evidence other than a lot of rumor and conjecture that everyone involved is going to, you know, do their role, do their job, do their duty tomorrow. That's certainly what so many voices are calling on. And again no irregularities, no widespread fraud to indicate there's any basis in law or fact to do anything but their job tomorrow. But I'm confident that either way, whatever happens tomorrow, we've got protocols in place to move forward to ensure the will of the people will be certified one way or the other.

BLITZER: Yes. It wasn't even a close contest. It wasn't 500 votes or a thousand votes or 10,000 votes.

BENSON: Right. BLITZER: It was 154,000 plus votes that Biden won the state of

Michigan. As you know, this Republican canvasser, a man by the name of Norman Shinkle, is expecting to vote against certify, hoping to delay it pending an audit. The Michigan GOP is requesting the same thing. But legally, is that how the process is supposed to work?

BENSON: No. And this is so important. State law does not allow our State Bureau of Elections to access the poll books, the ballots or any of the documentation needed to conduct any audit until after the election has been certified. And indeed we have plans in place and have had plans in place for months now to conduct those audits after the certification. So it's important again to just look at the law and the facts here, and then also recognize that we are in the midst, as we've all seen and experienced in the past near three weeks now, of an effort to delegitimize a very secure and safe election.

And so in my view, we have to separate between what does the law say, what is clear under the facts of the case, and what are the rumors and conjecture that others are speaking about to sow confusion or plant seeds of doubt in the minds of the voters or the general public about what could happen. But what I -- and my read of the law as an attorney, as a former dean of a law school and the state's chief election officer, gives me a lot of confidence that, you know, we hope and expect everyone to do their jobs tomorrow and for the law to be followed. But as in any case when laws are not followed, there are protocols in place to ensure the law is enforced.

BLITZER: Since we last spoke, Secretary, have you had a chance to speak to those two Republican state lawmakers who actually came to Washington, met with the president over at the White House?

BENSON: No. And in fact, I -- you know, my role is really to intentionally stay out of that process, stay out of politics. And frankly, I would expect any candidates involved in this process to do the same under the law. But that said, in my view, again, the law is quite clear. And I think everyone in a position of authority, regardless of the noise maybe circulating in social media and the rest right now, is going to do their job and is committed to doing their job. And again we have protocols in place if that doesn't happen to ensure we can still move forward.

And we want to assure the people in Michigan, the voters in Michigan that their votes were counted, their votes are valid and the results of the election were accurate. And that will rule the day one of the way or the other as we move forward.

BLITZER: Jocelyn Benson is the secretary of State of Michigan, you've got your hands full over there.

Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. I hope you have a happy Thanksgiving. Good luck.

BENSON: You, too, Wolf. Thanks very much.

BLITZER: Thank you. Meanwhile, a pandemic is spiraling out of control. In the past 22 days

alone, 22 days, at least three million confirmed cases of coronavirus have been reported here in the United States.

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But even amid rosy timeline about a possible vaccine, top experts are warning against travel this Thanksgiving and this holiday season. That's coming up.

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BLITZER: The United States has seen more than 100,000 new COVID-19 cases every day for the last 20 days. That according to the Johns Hopkins University.

CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen is joining us right now. She is the former health commissioner for the city of Baltimore. Also with us Dr. James Philips, chief of disaster medicine at the George Washington University Hospital.

Dr. Wen, we see that case numbers, hospitalizations and deaths sadly are exploding around so much of the country. How will doctors like you, frontline health care workers all across the country, meet what's surely coming as a result of these upcoming holiday get-togethers?

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DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, this is the big concern, Wolf. Because as terrible as things seem right now, they are going to get much worse in the weeks to come. We just added one million new cases within the last six days. And we know that the number of hospitalizations we have, which are setting records every single day, that reflects the infections that occurred two to three weeks ago when we were at about 100,000 new infections per day.

Now we are going to be at almost double that number. And so what is it going to look like in two to three weeks? And you're right, too, about the fact that there's travel coming up. We're about to have so many people traveling. We've seen cases surge after every holiday. And I just really fear for what's going to come our way because hospitals are already overwhelmed. ICUs are already over capacity. And I hope that everyone will help us now to flatten the curve once more so that we can save lives.

BLITZER: We can only hope. And, you know, Dr. Philips, we heard about vaccines today from the head of what's called Operation Warp Speed. We also heard from the former FDA commissioner. I want you to listen to this and then we'll discuss.

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DR. MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: Our plan is to be able to ship vaccines to the immunization sites within 24 hours from the approval. So I would expect maybe on day two after an approval, on the 11th or on the 12th of December. DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: I think by the second

quarter of 2021, maybe into the third quarter, we'll have a vaccine that hopefully will be licensed for general use if everything goes well and the data continues to support the safety and effectiveness of that vaccine. And we'll be able to vaccinate the public or a good portion of the public heading into the fall of 2021.

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BLITZER: That sounds, Dr. Philips, like two different timelines. What are your thoughts here?

DR. JAMES PHILIPS, CHIEF OF DISASTER MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Well, either way, it's promising that we can start to see a light at the end of the tunnel, although it's still many, many months off. You know, right now there's really four vaccines that are looking very promising. There's the Pfizer, the Moderna, both of which are these MRNA vaccines, as well as the AstraZeneca and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine which are viral vectors, another different type.

And we're hoping that with the Pfizer EUA that is hopefully pending, that will be the beginning of us getting vaccinated, particularly as frontline workers. If it goes through, within a couple of weeks, like he's estimated, and the FDA commissioner is the one who issues that EUA with the guidance of others, then we'll be on a good path. However, like Regeneron, just received its EUA today and that took six weeks.

So if everything goes correctly, I think that frontline workers like myself and the other doctors and nurses taking care of patients in the ERs, the ICUs and the wards will probably see vaccinations by the end of the year. At least our first round. And that second trounce of vaccinations, according to my friends that are working on this at high levels, they believe that end of January, early February, if nothing goes wrong, we'll start to see nursing homes and our most vulnerable populations becoming vaccinated. And I hope that's the case.

BLITZER: You know, it's a very hopeful development indeed.

Dr. Wen, when you look at all the data that's publicly available right now, bottom line, when do you think we will all be able to return to some semblance of normality?

WEN: Well, by the most optimistic timeline, I think we can see most Americans be vaccinated by late spring to early summer of 2021. But that's if everything goes according to plan because we know that it's not only enough that the vaccine is safe and effective, it also has to be trusted. And we need to win Americans' trust after so much disinformation during this pandemic. And we also have to get the vaccine literally distributed to hundreds of millions of people.

Then it's also going to take time for the vaccines to kick in, for them to be effective and for us to see how long that efficacy lasts. And so I hope that we'll get back to some sort of normal by mid to late 2021. But just to emphasize something Dr. Phillips aid, there is hope on the horizon. I mean, there's great news about these vaccines. And I just hope that everyone listening will hang in there this winter.

We need to get through these next few months, which could be the deadliest yet. But if we do, there's hope on the horizon.

BLITZER: How do you convince a lot of skeptical people out there, Dr. Philips, that this vaccine will be safe and effective?

PHILIPS: It's going to take a lot of work. The Orwellian, Dystopian double speak coming out of the White House has haunted us since the beginning of this pandemic and cast doubt on science across the board. And when you have a portion of the population that is already hesitant against vaccines, and other portion who are hesitant when the government tells them to do anything from a medical standpoint, it falls on us as physicians, scientists and public health professionals to try to get the message out.

We can use avenues such as the media, public service announcements from athletes and celebrities, and other people that are respected in different communities to try to get that message across. The issue is, is that if we're ever going to get to a level of immunity in this country that is what we might call herd immunity, then we need a certain percentage of the population to have antibodies.

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Those antibodies can either come from getting sick or they can come from getting vaccinated. And in order for us to achieve that in a relatively quick time frame, it is going to require a lot of people to change their minds and if we believe the surveys that are out there right now. But we're up to the task.

BLITZER: As soon as Dr. Fauci tells us it's safe to get that vaccine, I'll be first in line. Happy to get that vaccine.

Dr. Wen, Dr. Philips, guys, thank you very much. I hope both of you have a happy Thanksgiving.

Meanwhile, we're learning new details of who might fill several key cabinet positions in the incoming Biden administration. The co-chair of President-elect Biden's transition team, the New Mexico governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham, is standing by live. We will discuss.

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BLITZER: The President-elect Joe Biden is filling out his White House staff. He's expected to announce his first cabinet picks on Tuesday, including the setting of State, the National Security adviser and ambassador to the United Nations.

Joining us now, Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham of New Mexico. She's a co-chair of the Biden transition team. Governor Lujan Grisham, thank you so much for joining us. I know

you've got a lot going on right now. We're learning, as you probably heard, that among the top contenders for secretary of State is Tony Blinken, a former deputy secretary of State under President Obama. I assume you can't comment on that reporting. But what can you tell us about the president-elect's selection process, how he is dealing with all these critically important cabinet positions?

GOV. MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM (D-NM): Well, the easy thing to comment on is you can already see by the entirety of his transition team, he is looking for expertise. He wants to make sure that we represent the face of America so gender equality, diversity, members of every single community of interest. And I think that that is exactly the effort that will heal the country, reengage us around the globe.

And I think it's -- and I have to say, they have been incredibly inclusive about making sure that every state, every group has access to providing their input as the president-elect makes his final decisions.

BLITZER: You joined, Governor, the transition team back in September. Was there any anticipation of the scenario that's actually playing out right now, a president who is not only refusing to concede, he is actively blocking the incoming administration's progress?

LUJAN GRISHAM: Well, Wolf, I'd like to tell you that everyone in America, including the transition team, expected that we would have maturity in the White House. Unfortunately, given the response to the pandemic and a multitude of other issues, the transition team, while hoping for the best, planning for the worst. But I will tell you that this is getting increasingly problematic. And as a governor, the American people elected a brand-new president.

And the president-elect cannot work on the stimulus package, on providing clarity and relief to governors and more people will die, more COVID issues will rear their ugly heads across America. It is really untenable what is going on. And quite frankly we need more Americans not to be complicit in what's going on and we need America to get what she deserves, which is a peaceful, productive transition of power.

BLITZER: There's been talk about you, as you know. Let's talk a little bit about you. That you might be offered a cabinet position. You have seen the speculation in the press. Maybe secretary of the department, over at Health and Human Services. Will you accept that role if it were offered to you?

LUJAN GRISHAM: So that -- tough question, Wolf. I respect the process of the entire transition, which is make sure that you've got that diversity, that expertise and experience. Something -- health care is something that I care deeply about. Anyone who represents a majority- minority state has got to be treating healthcare as if it's deeply personal, particularly in a pandemic. Governors are on the front lines.

I appreciate that they're looking at governors. But today, I'm in the job I asked for and I'm spending every moment of every day saving as many New Mexican lives as I can and doing everything I can in the context of the pandemic. And I have to say, particularly with the resurgence, that's where my head is. And that's where my focus is.

BLITZER: Well, let's talk about coronavirus in your state of New Mexico. More than 80,000 total cases. 1300 deaths in New Mexico. You recently enacted a public health order, requires businesses with four or more positive rapid responses in a 14-day period to shut down for two weeks. Do you think that will help curb this really awful spread not only in New Mexico, but around the country?

LUJAN GRISHAM: I do. And I will tell you why. We don't want businesses to shutter. We are also seeing that essential businesses are certainly not exempt from having COVID cases and from having the four rapid responses. But it is getting businesses to have the opportunity to reengage with their employees. Everyone has to be tested. So now we're going to do weekly testing at all of these businesses, including grocery stores. We have a reset where some businesses are not allowed to be open until we have a much lower positivity rate and a much lower rate of infection.

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And we're seeing some stability in our numbers. We're not going to see them go down. I'm looking for stability. I want to make sure that I can rest and support our healthcare system and our healthcare workers. And we do think this strategy is working because it has worked for us. Unfortunately, a couple of times before, and it just shows you without a national COVID response, what happens anywhere else in America, particularly in the border states, particularly in cities like El Paso, will immediately begin to occur in a state like New Mexico, no matter how productive and proactive our COVID responses have been.

So I do -- I'm seeing relief. And I feel good about that aspect. Not so good about the fact that it's raging around the country.

BLITZER: Yes. You make a good point. One thing for a state to do something. But you really do need a national strategy, a national response. And I assume that's what the incoming administration is looking to do.

We'll stay in close touch with you, Governor. Thank you so much for joining us. I hope you have a happy Thanksgiving. Appreciate it very much.

LUJAN GRISHAM: I'll have a very lonely Thanksgiving which I hope everyone in America will think about because it means that I will have a robust, everyone at the table, in my family next year for Thanksgiving.

BLITZER: Yes. God willing.

LUJAN GRISHAM: But you have a safe Thanksgiving. All right, God willing.

BLITZER: And good luck to you. Good luck to everyone in New Mexico. Thank you so, so much.

And with the expected announcement of Tony Blinken as President-elect Joe Biden's secretary of State, we'll take a closer look at the message that the incoming Biden administration would be sending around the world. We'll be right back.

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BLITZER: Want to get back to our top story tonight. President-elect Joe Biden's transition. CNN is now learning that Tony Blinken is a top contender to become the next secretary of State. Some of the president-elect's key cabinet picks will be announced, we're told, on Tuesday.

Joining us once again our national security analyst, Samantha Vinograd.

Sam, thanks so much for joining us. So, first of all, tell us a little bit about the differences between the current secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and the leading contender to replace him, Tony Blinken.

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, to say that Tony Blinken would be an upgrade is a gross understatement, Wolf. Tony Blinken, unlike Mike Pompeo, has never polluted a policy position with politics. I think that would be the key differentiator between Tony Blinken and Secretary of State Pompeo. Tony Blinken also has a deep regard and deep experience working through multilateral institutions and working to strengthen alliances rather than degrade them as Secretary of State Pompeo has done.

And furthermore, Tony Blinken is an excellent leader. I worked very closely with him when he was deputy National Security adviser. He did everything possible to improve morale within the National Security Council. Secretary of State Pompeo had done quite the opposite. Morale within the State Department is at an all-time low. And when it comes to policy issues -- and I worked with Tony on these issues in the situation room at the White House.

Tony Blinken is a strong believer in human rights. He's been tweeting about these issues recently while on the campaign trail. And he's a strong practicer of what the U.S. government preaches. We currently have a secretary of State who talks about free and fair elections, freedom of the press, freedom to protest overseas while he denigrates those same freedoms back home. Tony Blinken practices what he preaches on Democratic freedom and om all other issues.

And for all those reasons, Tony Blinken would be an excellent choice when it comes to repairing U.S. credibility overseas and really restoring the soul of the State Department.

BLITZER: Yes. He was the deputy secretary of State, as you point out, during the Obama administration.

We're learning also, Samantha, that Jake Sullivan is now the leading contender to become the president-elect's National Security adviser in the White House. So what does that tell you about this national security team that Joe Biden is putting together?

VINOGRAD: Well, it certainly shows that President-elect Biden wants a high caliber National Security apparatus. For four years, we have had a National Security apparatus that has atrophied, and I'm being kind. Jake Sullivan has deep experience working at the State Department. He has deep experience working for then Vice President Joe Biden as his national security adviser. He knows how agencies and the federal departments work. He is a deep thinker. And if Jake Sullivan is named national security adviser, it would show that President-elect Biden wants to jump start the national security process again with a highly strategic, highly organized and if I may say incredibly kind national security adviser that can lift morale internally and restore the notion that the United States has a functional, apolitical national security apparatus at play.

BLITZER: Tell us about Linda Thomas-greenfield. Sources are telling CNN she is a leading contender to be the next U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. What message does this send to the world about the next chapter in American foreign policy? You know this woman.

VINOGRAD: Well, in fact, Ambassador Greenfield was terminated by President Trump in I believe November 2017. Ambassador Greenfield spent 34 years serving her country in the foreign service. She was a career foreign service officer. She's been an ambassador to Liberia. She was the assistant secretary of State for African affairs, a position that Ambassador Susan Rice previously held.

She was the director general of the Foreign Service. She has so much experience to bring to bear, Wolf. And by, if she is nominated for this position, I think it would really show that President-elect Biden is trying to upgrade this position again. Remember, Pompeo degraded this position. The U.N. ambassador currently reports to him. We have Ambassador Kelly Kraft currently in the role with no previous diplomatic experience that I can recall.

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Ambassador Greenfield is completely the opposite. She understands how the State Department works. She cares deeply and has deep experience when it comes to African affairs. We all know how President Trump referred to countries in Africa. She has a lot of experience as well, working on refugees and migration, two other issues that President Trump has pilloried during his time in office.

So this would be a sea change when it comes to the caliber of person that would be representing the United States at the United Nations.

BLITZER: Very different, indeed. A career foreign service officer. All right, Samantha Vinograd, as us, thank you so much for joining us.

Also tonight, the final two episodes of CNN's Original Series "FIRST LADIES" will air. We'll have a preview when we come back.

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BLITZER: Presidential candidate, secretary of State, senator, Hillary Rodham Clinton has held all those roles during her career. But before all that, she was first lady of the United States.

Tonight, in the CNN Original Series, "FIRST LADIES," we take a close look at Hillary Clinton's time in the White House. Here's a preview.

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HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am honored today to announce my candidacy for the United States Senate from New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary Clinton becomes the only first lady ever to run for public office.

KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's an incredible moment in history. This is what she deserved. She had put up with years of lies and fighting for Bill. Now she was going to get her due.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is her first campaign tour ever on behalf of herself.

CLINTON: The energy in here is overwhelming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I'm joined now by our White House correspondent Kate Bennett.

Kate, thanks for joining us. After Bill Clinton's two terms in the White House, we are up, Hillary Clinton became the first, first lady to run for publics of and of course, went on to become a U.S. senator, served as secretary of State, ran for president twice. What else can we expect to see from Hillary Clinton down the road in the future?

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Wolf, really the expectations for Hillary Clinton can be anything. She is one of those people, and we'll see this tonight in the series, who just never took no for an answer, no matter how many times she was told she couldn't or shouldn't, she did. I mean, her tenure as first lady, she became the first, first lady to really be directly involved in policy.

And got a lot of backlash for it quite frankly. But for her and we will see it tonight, going forward, pushing boundaries, breaking through, that's always been what she's done, and she was really quite not certain whether she wanted to take that backseat to Bill Clinton and her life, she hesitated marrying him as a matter of fact and just doing so prevented her from doing the things she wanted to do.

But as we all have seen, she's certainly forged ahead no matter how many times or who told her she couldn't and her story is really quite a remarkable one as a first lady.

BLITZER: It certainly is. Also tonight, there's another new episode about Lady Bird Johnson. It was on this day back in 1963 that her husband, Lyndon Johnson, became president of the United States following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Lady Bird went on to become a key to President Johnson's hard fought negotiations with Congress. Tell us a little bit about that.

BENNETT: I mean, for a first lady and a president, quite frankly, to enter office in such a sort of violent way when the country is in mourning, they had a different experience, the most, first couples and lady bird was very integral in the husband's administration. Her daughter says he needed her more than she needed him. She's certainly helped with the 1964 Civil Rights Act. She was the first, first lady to campaign on her own, with the whistle-stop tour through the South.

She was very determined and she put up with a lot with LBJ's moods and the things in the country, Vietnam. I mean, she really had a lot going on during her time as first lady and I don't personally think until I watch this episode that she gets enough credit for really how she was the backbone for her husband during many tumultuous years, starting, as you said, with the anniversary, with this incident of President Kennedy being assassinated.

BLITZER: Did she --

BENNETT: And Wolf, I just wanted --

BLITZER: Yes, go ahead.

BENNETT: Sorry, go ahead. No, please.

BLITZER: No, finish.

BENNETT: I was just going to say, this is one of those remarkable stories of a woman, sort of somebody thinks she's very a feminine Texas rose, but she's actually a very forceful, very influential first lady, and I think we really see a lot of that tonight in this episode.

BLITZER: Yes. These two documentaries are really, really important and I recommend it highly to our viewers.

Kate Bennett, thanks so much for joining us.

And once again to our viewers, make sure you tune in to the all-new episode of "FIRST LADIES" which airs here on CNN right at the top of the hour. In the meantime, we'll be right back.

[21:55:00]

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BLITZER: That does it for me tonight. I'll be back tomorrow in THE SITUATION ROOM starting at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Remember, up next the new episode of CNN's original series, "FIRST LADIES."

Before we go, our tribute to some of the victims of the coronavirus pandemic. Andres Arguelles of Texas was 45 years old. His wife remembers his beautiful smile and contagious laugh, and how he loved his work as a truck driver. She says he made sure his two sons and entire family were always taken care of.

Sharon Marie Adams of Missouri was 71. Her sister said she was outgoing and active at the nursing home where she lived. Enjoying singing, watching movies, and family feud. She leaves behind two sons as well as grandchildren and great grandchildren.

May they rest in peace. And may their memories be a blessing.