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The Situation Room

Trump Pardons Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn; Interview With Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA); U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 261,000 With 12.7 Million Cases; Doctor Warns Thanksgiving "Potentially Mother Of All Superspreader Events"; Fauci: Keep Holiday Gatherings As Small As Possible; Houston Positivity Rate Climbs To 8.8 Percent; Houston Mayor: Don't "Invite COVID To Thanksgiving". Aired 5- 6p ET

Aired November 25, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:19]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Jim Acosta in THE SITUATION ROOM and we're following breaking news.

President Trump announcing moments ago that he's granted a full pardon to his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.

Also breaking, President-elect Joe Biden urging unity and calling on Americans to recommit to fighting the coronavirus pandemic. In a pre- Thanksgiving speech just a short time ago he said, "We're at war with the virus not with one another," adding "we're all in this together."

The death toll in the U.S. has now climbed past 261,000 people as the country tops 12.7 million cases and health experts fear those numbers will spike in the coming weeks with one warning that tomorrow's Thanksgiving holiday is, potentially the "mother of all super spreader events."

First, let's go straight to the White House. And CNN White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan. You're getting more information about the President's partner, former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, this is expected but if you were here in the early days of the Trump administration, it's still surprising to see it in this way. Because, of course, Mike Flynn was only President Trump's national security adviser for about 24 days before he was fired for what the President said at the time was lying to Vice President Mike Pence though, of course, we did later learn that he pleaded guilty twice, to lying to the FBI about his contacts with the then Russian ambassador to the United States during that presidential transition period.

Of course, the President announced on Twitter that he was firing Mike Flynn and then later replaced him. But Mike Flynn later tried to disavow that guilty plea, if you remember correctly. And then he wanted to get them to throw his case out.

And what was the most shocking twist of all of this came this spring when the Justice Department tried to abandon its own case that it had brought against Flynn. Of course, that's something, Jim, that is still in legal limbo, but to see the President announcing on Twitter tonight that he is going to pardon Flynn is a really part of this long standing lobbying campaign that came on behalf of Flynn advocates urging the President to do so. And of course, it's coming as his time in office is also coming to a close.

ACOSTA: And Kaitlan, do you think this part is a sign the President does realize he's lost the election? You know, he's saying that he wants to overturn the results that the election was stolen from him, but he's acting like a president who's about to leave town?

COLLINS: That's exactly right. And that's how I saw this tweet coming from the President today. Because of course, Flynn is one of many that we could get. And by the President doing this, it's really his last business on the way out the door, realizing this could be his last chance to grant Mike Flynn and other people leniency.

And so while today, he was patched into this bizarre conference call, if you would call it that, with Rudy Giuliani and his other legal advisors who were in Pennsylvania, with these Republican state lawmakers as they were meeting pushing these baseless theories about election fraud that we've been hearing from the President ever since the night of the election.

And so on that call, the President was on speakerphone he was insisting this election was stolen from him and that the results would be overturned and that he was the winner though, of course, we know he's not. And we see the government responding as if he's not because the federal government is working on that transition of power right now. But if you look at this pardon that comes from the president, it does show that he realizes he's going to be on his way out in January.

ACOSTA: And top Republican leaders and senior White House officials already chiming in to support the President's decision.

CNNs Kaitlan Collins will be talking about all of this, standby.

Let's talk about more -- about all of this with former FBI Deputy Director and Acting Director Andrew McCabe, a CNN contributor, and CNN Legal and National Security Analyst Carrie Cordero. And Kaitlan Collins is also back with us as well.

Andrew, just want to ask you about the obviously the breaking news right now, this part of Michael Flynn. As you know, Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. We even have a tweet from the President, December 2, 2017, "I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. This has -- he -- there was nothing to hide."

We should note here that that tweet obviously refers to the transition of 2016 into 2017, not the transition that we're going through right now. But to get past that mind, bending thought for a second. Andrew, what's your reaction to all of this?

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Well, Jim, I have to say I'm not surprised. I think most people who've been watching this case closely expected. This result particularly as the Justice Department's bizarre and unprecedented strategy to abandon a case on the eve of sentencing, a case in which the defendant himself has pled guilty and then affirmed that guilty plea in court on two separate occasions.

[17:05:13]

DOJ tried to walk away from that prosecution in what was an inexplicable act. And I think is that seemed to be failing. The odds of General Flynn getting a pardon have gone up.

But, let me just add, Jim, the question of what General Flynn engaged in and how he handled, trying to cover up that contact with the Russians is absolutely -- is -- there's no question about what he did and what he said about it. He lied to the FBI agents when they interviewed him, he admitted to those lies in court.

And everything that's come since then, is really just been legal wrangling and an effort to avoid taking responsibility for that.

ACOSTA: That's right. He lied about his conversations with the Russian ambassador at the time, Sergey Kislyak, during that transition from the Obama administration to the Trump administration. I've talked to senior administration officials who have acknowledged that they know that Michael Flynn lied about this. At that time I've written about it, others have written about it.

Carrie Cordero, let me ask you about this because as both a lawyer and a national security expert, I would have to think that this is a stunning development. We haven't really seen something like this. The President pardoning people who were figures in an investigation of that involved himself at one point.

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's right, Jim. And the issue with these pardons is first of all, I agree with Andy McCabe absolutely that it's not really a surprise, because the President has publicly talked about this case, has expressed his displeasure with this case, has expressed sympathies for Michael Flynn, as well as many of the other defendants in special counsel Muller's investigation into interference in the 2016 election over a period of years.

So I think this pardon was always going to happen. It's still, you know, unique to see it actually occur, but it was always going to happen. And it demonstrates that the President never did have any problem with the activity that Michael Flynn engaged in, never paid any attention to the fact that Michael Flynn actually did plead guilty.

And then the Attorney General's interference in this particular case by directing a review that then led to the Justice Department trying to back out of the prosecution altogether, just was so unusual throughout the duration of the case. So, I'm not surprised that we're here at this point. And frankly, between now and January 20, I would expect more of these types of pardons and continuing to see the President unravel the work of the special counsel's investigation.

ACOSTA: And Kaitlan, I remember being there at the White House the night that that Michael Flynn was fired and hanging out besides Sean Spicer's press secretary office, we were all waiting for this word to come down. And then it ultimately did. But as Carrie and Andrew was saying, I guess none of this is all that surprising, as stunning as the news might be.

But Kaitlan, you were just saying a few moments ago Flynn is now the first of what we expect to be many pardons from President Trump between now and Inauguration Day. And there's even talk of a potential attempt at a self-pardon. What do you think we should be expecting here in the coming weeks?

COLLINS: Yes, whether or not the President will pardon himself as something that's been on everyone's mind, given the fact that he has told people privately he's worried about being investigated once he's out of office. But we have heard from sources who have spoken with President Trump as well that there could be pardons for other people as well. You could look for the George Papadopoulos, the Paul Manafort type figures that the President has not spared leniency yet, they could certainly be on that list.

Jared Kushner's father is another one that several people have raised to me in recent days. Of course, the former CFO of the Trump Organization, Allen Weisselberg, his own attorney, Rudy Giuliani, who we know has people looking into him in New York.

All of these things are potentially what could be weighing on the President as he is finding his last days in office.

And what you were just saying there about, you know, this isn't really that shocking, because the President had been telegraphing for a while that he was going to pardon Mike Flynn. It's still really surprising when you talk to the top officials who worked here in the early days of this administration, who were here when Mike Flynn and all that chaos was happening, you know, before all of the past four years had happened.

And they're still stunned by it because it wasn't just that Mike Flynn had lied to the Vice President, it was the Vice President, it was the chief of staff at the time Ryan's Priebus, the Press Secretary Sean Spicer, all of these people who were coming out and vouching for Mike Flynn at the time, he had lied to all of them. So it was this culture of distrust that was, you know, really kicked off the Trump administration and of course, how the hiring's here went over the last four years.

So they're still a little taken aback that this is how this is ended up with a pardon for Mike Flynn.

ACOSTA: That's right. I remember all those officials that you just mentioned there being furious at the time in Michael Flynn's behavior.

[17:10:03]

COLLINS: Yes.

ACOSTA: And Andrew McCabe, it's important to remember that at one point, and I think you were talking about this a few moments ago, getting to this a few moments ago, Flynn was cooperating with Robert Muller's investigation, but he stopped. That's unusual.

And I guess, what do you make of the comment that we were discussing with Carrie Cordero a few moments ago that the President appears to be trying to pardon people who are central to this Russia investigation. Is he trying to rewrite the history of the Russia investigation through these parties?

MCCABE: I mean, it certainly seems that way, Jim. There's no question that the President would like to do everything he possibly can to cut the legs out from under the conclusions in the Mueller report.

And if pardoning his friends and associates and people who could potentially expose him to, you know, who knows what kind of investigative liability down the road, that's a way to secure his own future. That is the only thing that this President is really concerned about is himself and his own fortune.

So, if he thinks that's a wise thing that he needs to do before he walks out the door, then I'm sure we'll see that.

I think it's also important, Jim, to note that the thing about what General Flynn did, the reason it was so incredibly troubling to those of us who are on the investigative side is for the reasons that Kaitlan just mentioned, it wasn't just that he had historic contacts with Russia's -- with Russians, it wasn't just that he had current contacts with the Russians in a surreptitious way, asking for favors and getting those favors granted, it was that he then tried to conceal those contacts from the Vice President from the President's chief of staff from the White House Counsel.

And concealing contact with the enemy, that's like the triple crown of counterintelligence concerns. So, we were, I think, all rightfully concerned at that time.

ACOSTA: And Carrie Cordero, I want to get a final thought on this, because in the middle of all of this, we have to remember the President earlier today was calling for the overturning of the results of the election. What goes through your mind when you hear the President of United States again saying that the election was invalid, that the results should be overturned, that he should be allowed to have a second term in office while he's pardoning people like Michael Flynn?

I mean, it just sounds like we're in the middle of like -- these seem like undemocratic actions on the part of the President. I know the pardon is part of the presidential powers that he has at his disposal. But you know, coupled with some of the comments that he's making he sounds like an autocrat.

CORDERO: It just demonstrates his unwillingness to abide by the constitution, frankly, that we have an electoral process. The voters have voted. The votes are undisputable, we have states that have certified, there is no credible evidence of any kind of voter fraud. And yet, the President will not accept the results of the election.

I don't necessarily expect him to concede in the way that a normal president would. And we've had finally the development today that the transition is starting to take place under the GSA ascertainment. But we really should never become numb to the fact that a President of the United States has actively, affirmatively tried to undermine the outcome of an American election.

It's something that we will need to come back to, and revisit from when we have some distance between us after the inauguration of Joe Biden in January. But it's not something that we should just set aside. It's outrageous, but it's not unexpected from the way that he's conducted his presidency.

ACOSTA: Right. And it just sounds like he's bingeing on some of these autocratic dictator like, impulses.

All right, Carrie Cordero, Andrew McCabe, Kaitlan Collins, again, thank you, all of you for those comments. We appreciate it.

Let's get more on the breaking news with Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the Vice Chair of the Intelligence Committee.

And Mr. Vice Chair, I want to get your initial comments to this, I guess stunning but not surprising news that the President has pardon, Michael Flynn.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Well, again, I think, Jim, you characterize it correctly. Stunning, but not surprising and all of your earlier commentators have made this point. This is undemocratic. This is an attempt to rewrite history.

But history has been written, the intelligence community assessment of Russia intervention help from the Mueller investigation. Our bipartisan five-volume intelligence committee report documenting all these activities including the activities of Michael Flynn, who, you know, didn't even pretend he was innocent, pled guilty to lying twice to the FBI.

[17:15:01]

The idea that Donald Trump in his waning days are trying -- is trying to change history or rewrite history. I think he's going to be unsuccessful.

But I do think we need to be worried about not only Donald Trump pardoning his cronies and his, you know, political helpers, but what he could -- the damage he can continue to do to our national security apparatus. I mean, he fired Secretary Esper, he fired Chris Krebs, who put together the cleanest election in American history. There are rumors about the FBI director and the CIA director.

So, while he may be trying to clean up his personal mess, the proactive damage he can continue to do to our national security in our next 60 days should be a top concern of all of us.

ACOSTA: And Senator Warner, do you believe, and this is a critical question, do you believe this is an abuse of the President's pardon powers?

WARNER: I think this President has abused so many parts of his office in such undemocratic ways. Where I put this in that hierarchy of abuse, you know, I'll let other commentators and historians weigh in. But I -- this is not the first and I'm unfortunately afraid this will be the last time this president tries to abuse his powers for his own personal self-interest.

ACOSTA: And we're learning that the President is considering other pardons for other members of his inner circle, including other figures from the Mueller investigation, other figures that you were investigating as part of your bipartisan probe there on the Senate Intelligence Committee. What is your sense of it? Should there be a warning to the President, that he should not abuse this pardon power that he could go too far here?

WARNER: Well, again, I'm not sure who this president listens to in terms of warnings, maybe we could get some of his business supporters to weigh in. But when I've been obviously disappointed that more of my Republican colleagues, although, each day more and more recognize President-elect Biden call out his inappropriate actions, again, in terms of undermining the integrity of our elections, or for that matter, drawing down troops in Afghanistan without warning our allies. So, I would not be surprised by any action he takes.

But if he's simply, you know, and I say this with some tongue in cheek, but if he's only trying to protect his own, you know, tattered reputation, as opposed to proactively undermining our national security, I will take protecting his tattered reputation, rather than undermining our country in these last 60 days when we think about other parts of the intelligence community or our defense establishment, not only here at home, but around the world.

ACOSTA: And I just have to ask you about what the President was saying earlier today continuing to make these outlandish conspiracy, laden comments about the election, lying about the outcome of the election, calling for the election results to be overturned, what is your response to the President?

WARNER: Well, Jim, let's take, you know, a step back and recognize that, you know, 30 days before the election, our intelligence community and law enforcement community were really afraid of four things. They were afraid, one, a foreign interference.

They were afraid, two, Americans would not show up for the election because of fear of COVID. Number three, that people would come potentially with firearms on Election Day and try to intimidate people from voting. And number four, that there might be violence right before or right after the election.

And we looked at what happened with the good efforts of CISA and NSA and others, we kept the foreign interference out. Americans voted in record numbers, both for Biden and for Trump. We did not have intimidation at the polls, and we did not have violence before or afterwards.

Other than Donald Trump's personal antics after the election, this election was the safest and as Chris Krebs said, the most secure. And we should be actually commending our institutions, our local election officials, they did one hell of a job. And I think that is the real story.

And, frankly, at the end of the day, Trump's lies and attempts to up in our election, I hope will become a historical footnote rather than obviously, what should be in candidly viewed as an institutional success of our democracy. That actually happened on November 3.

ACOSTA: All right, we'll take that note of optimism there.

Senator Mark Warner, thanks for joining us. We appreciate it.

The breaking news continues. Next, President-elect Joe Biden calling on Americans to unite and recommit to fighting the coronavirus pandemic.

Plus, health experts offer advice on how to make your Thanksgiving celebration safer during the pandemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:24:22]

ACOSTA: There's more breaking news. We're following President-elect Joe Biden speaking to the nation a short time ago urging unity and calling on Americans to recommit to fighting the coronavirus pandemic.

CNN Political Correspondent Arlette Saenz is there for us.

Arlette, a markedly different message from Joe Biden than what we've been hearing from President Trump that he's replacing all day long today.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It certainly was Jim.

And 48 hours after Biden's transition process formally got underway, his transition team is plowing full steam ahead meeting with Trump administration officials across key agencies. And on Monday, Biden will start to receive the President's daily brief, his first look at pressing national security issues facing him when he takes office.

[17:25:08]

But it has Thanksgiving message, his Thanksgiving address earlier today, Biden projected a message of unity and also talked about the collective fight Americans need to engage in to combat the Coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SAENZ (voice-over): Ahead of the Thanksgiving holiday President-elect Joe Biden offered a somber message for a country gripped by COVID-19.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know the country has grown weary of the fight. We need to remember we're at war with a virus, not with one another.

SAENZ: The address presented a stark contrast to President Trump, who has not acknowledged the rising coronavirus cases, and continues to cast doubt about the election.

BIDEN: Let's be thankful for democracy itself. In America we have full and fair and free elections. And then we honor the results.

The people of this nation, the laws of the land won't stand for anything else.

SAENZ: After weeks of delay, Biden's transition team is receiving its first briefings from the Trump administration on the virus, hoping to get information on Operation Warp Speed and plans for distributing a vaccine.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID ADVISORY BOARD: This is sort of like ups delivery. There's a lot of logistics involved. And so there's a lot of just fine detail we need to drill down on.

SAENZ: Biden's incoming White House Chief of Staff is also in touch with the nation's top infectious disease experts.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I've been in contact with Ron Klain, nothing substantive in the sense of plans, but just touching base with me, telling me that we're going to be talking about this very soon now that the transition is in process.

SAENZ: Before the holiday, the President-elect started filling out his cabinet, turning to Obama era officials to lead his national security and foreign policy teams. But Biden insists he's charting his own course.

IDEN: This is not a third Obama term because there's -- we face a totally different world than we faced in the Obama-Biden administration.

The President this-- President Trump has changed the landscape.

SAENZ: With more cabinet decisions in the coming weeks, Biden says he's open to naming a Republican to his team, even if they voted for President Trump.

BIDEN: I want this country to be united. The purpose of our administration is once again be united. We can't keep this violent political dialogue going, it has to end.

SAENZ: In his Thanksgiving message. Biden expressed solidarity with those who have lost loved ones to coronavirus, sharing his own experience with loss. BIDEN: I remember that first Thanksgiving, the empty chair, the silence takes your breath away. I'll be thinking and praying for each and every one of you in this Thanksgiving. At your Thanksgiving table because we've been there.

SAENZ: And with the altered holiday season approaching, Biden urged Americans to come together to fight the virus.

BIDEN: I know we can and we will beat this virus. America's not going to lose this war. We'll get our lives back. Life is going to return to normal, I promise you.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SAENZ: And President-elect Joe Biden shared his own Thanksgiving plans. His family normally has a large Biden family gathering up in Nantucket but this year, it will be just him his wife Jill, his daughter Ashley, and his son-in-law celebrating the Thanksgiving holiday together due to the coronavirus, something that he shares in common with so many Americans this holiday season.

ACOSTA: All right, CNN's Arlette Saenz, thank you very much.

Coming up, millions of Americans ignoring CDC guidelines in traveling over the holiday despite the pandemic. And one health expert is warning that Thanksgiving gatherings could make the holiday, the "mother of all super spreader events."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:33:54]

ACOSTA: There's more breaking news, we're following the U.S. death toll in the coronavirus pandemic now tops 261,000 people with more than 12.7 million confirmed cases. CNN's Lucy Kafanov has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This Thanksgiving will be one to remember for all the wrong reasons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to go see my grandparents.

KAFANOV (voice-over): COVID-19 cases skyrocketing now topping an average 174,000 a day. More than 88,000 hospitalizations reported Tuesday, the highest number since the pandemic began. And for the second time since early May, more than 2,000 deaths reported in a single day.

DR. JOSEPH VARON, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, UNITED MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER: My concern for the next six to 12 weeks is that if we don't do things right, America is going to see the darkest days in modern American medical history.

KAFANOV (voice-over): Despite the CDC last week urging people not to travel for Thanksgiving, the TSA says more than 4.8 million Americans have already hit the skies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing has really changed whether that way. When I go home, we're having Thanksgiving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am going to see my elderly parents, my dad's 90, my mom's 87. And I don't know if getting emotional. If in Christmas they're going to be around.

[17:35:09]

KAFANOV (voice-over): Health experts warn dinner with grandma and the extended family could be more grief in the weeks ahead.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's potentially the mother of all superspreader events.

KAFANOV (voice-over): The pandemic changing time honored traditions. The Macy's Thanksgiving parade in New York for living room crowds only this year,

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: It will be different, it will be smaller, it will be made for TV. It is not a spectator event in person.

KAFANOV (voice-over): From coast to coast, families hurting in so many ways, historic lines at food banks across the country with a pandemic shuttering businesses and sending unemployment surging.

CHERYL HOWARD, UNEMPLOYED: Who they runs out and them help them with this, that helps out a whole lot. I will benefit then for my family.

KAFANOV (voice-over): Doctors and nurses on COVID frontlines also feeling the pain. The Mayo Clinic in Minnesota forced to bring in workers from out of state even pulling some staff out of retirement to cope with their shortage.

DR. ANDREW BADLEY, CHAIRMAN, MAYO CLINIC COVID RESEARCH TASK FORCE: It's troubling to a degree that that there is, in my opinion, a degree of complacency from some about, you know, how severe COVID is.

KAFANOV (voice-over): But for this struggling nation, some signs of hope.

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: If all goes well, we could be distributing vaccine soon after December 10th. The American people can be confident that hope and help are on the way.

KAFANOV (voice-over): Until that help is here, health officials are bracing for another COVID surge. One last plea for Americans to do their part in slowing the spread.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The final message is to do what really we've been saying now for some time is -- to the extent possible, keep the gatherings, the indoor gatherings as small as you possibly can.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV: Here in Colorado, hospitalizations are spiking with just 25 ICU beds available in the city of Denver. That's according to the governor. The mayor of Denver, though, Jim, is in hot water this morning after sending a tweet this morning urging residents to avoid traveling this holiday season. Moments later, boarding a plane himself for Mississippi to spend Thanksgiving with his wife and his daughter. His office says he'll be quarantining upon his return to Denver. Jim?

ACOSTA: That is a mixed message. All right, CNN's Lucy Kafanov, thank you very much.

Let's get more on all of this with CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Rochelle Walensky, chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital.

Dr. Walensky, thanks so much for joining us. I want you to weigh in on what Dr. Jonathan Reiner, a former White House Medical Team Adviser told CNN when he said that Thanksgiving could become the mother of all super spreader events. Can you weigh in on that, and how should that influence exactly how people celebrate tomorrow?

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good evening, Jim. You know, I think he's right. You know, what we don't worry about necessarily is that there'll be 200 people infected in a single gathering, because the gatherings are not likely to be that big. But what we worry about is under every roof, there will be 10, 15 people who are gathering, one or two people who might be asymptomatic, one of those 5 million people who have been traveling against CDC advice.

And it's those asymptomatic people who might be visiting their elderly loved ones or grandparents who have the potential to spread disease. Remember, about 40 percent of people carry this disease asymptomatically. And so, if you are sort of extending your time under these roofs with multi-generational households, that is how we're seeing so much disease get spread.

ACOSTA: And if people too gather with family and friends tomorrow, what do they need to do and the days that follow to keep themselves and their community safe? What tips could you offer?

WALENSKY: Well, what I would say first of all, is if you are gathering and you are not in the same pod, you have not been living under that same roof for the prior six, seven months. What I would say is please wear a mask while you're gathering.

So, people don't tend to wear masks when they're in their own households. But I would say if you are mixing pods, it's really critical. If you're a family member who just got off that plane, please wear a mask when you're with your loved ones and have them wear a mask as well.

Certainly distance could be helpful. You know, things that don't feel very Thanksgiving, like dining at different times, keeping the windows open, if that's possible. So all of these things to try and mitigate if you have, in fact, reached a household and are mixing pods. ACOSTA: And in his final play before Thanksgiving, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, you know him well, as we all do, he's urging Americans to make the sacrifice to keep these gatherings as small as possible. It is a sacrifice but it could be a lifesaving sacrifice, isn't that right?

WALENSKY: I think we so need to play the long game here. I mean, the good news is we've had amazing news in the last three weeks about what vaccines on will be available, what they (INAUDIBLE) or we're really hoping to have that help really is on the way.

[17:40:12]

America will not return to its normalcy for many months ahead. But we do have a mechanism by which we believe we are hopeful we can be protected. And so, what I would say is keep your gathering small. Mine will be my immediate four members of my family, and play the long game and hope that next year Thanksgiving can big again with everyone vaccinated.

ACOSTA: That's right. You can always zoom with grandma, right? Dr. Walensky -- all right, thanks so much.

WALENSKY: That's our plan.

ACOSTA: All right. Dr. Rochelle Walensky, thanks so much for joining us. Happy Thanksgiving.

And coming up, local officials across the U.S. struggling to protect their citizens from the worsening pandemic. We'll talk to the mayor of Houston next. Plus, health experts offer tips to make any Thanksgiving gatherings safer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:32]

ACOSTA: Officials across the U.S. are fearing a spike in coronavirus cases in the weeks after Thanksgiving. And joining us to talk about it is Houston, Mayor Sylvester Turner.

Mayor Turner, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it. And you're urging your residents not to invite COVID to Thanksgiving. That's your quote there.

MAYOR SYLVESTER TURNER (D), HOUSTON, TEXAS: Yes.

ACOSTA: Words to remember. But -- So what are you asking Houstonians do specifically tomorrow?

TURNER: Well, I'm asking them to keep their holiday celebrations to a minimum in terms of the people that they're inviting to their home. And that's including family members, unless there are family members who have been with you or with you every single day. We're asking people not to congregate in large numbers. And the same thing that I'm saying to them as applying to myself that Thanksgiving table for me, this year will be very, very small, very, very limited.

My sisters and brothers, for example, we won't be coming together in big groups, and I come from a very large family. But we know that this vaccine is right around the corner. And we want to be around to celebrate next year.

So, look, Jim I'm looking at the numbers every single day. I've seen how the number of people in hospitals have risen in the last four to five weeks. At one point in time, there were less than 400 people in the hospital due to COVID. As of this morning, that number is now 900 and growing. And in June, July, and August, we had as many as 2,400. We brought that down. But now those numbers are going up every day. And we need to be mindful of that.

ACOSTA: And, Mayor, as you know, the positivity rate in your city has increased from last week up to a staggering, it looks like 8.8 percent. That's just enormous. And you're seeing hundreds of new cases in your city every day. How should these troubling metrics influence behavior in your city right now?

TURNER: Well, I want to remind Houstonians and people in the region about what took place, for example, in April and May. In April and May, our numbers were, relatively speaking, were quite low, the number of deaths, the number of people in hospital, our positivity rate. And then things open up, and people started re-socializing.

And in June, July and August, our numbers were horrific. The number of deaths shot up exponentially, the positivity rate was as high as 24 percent, 25 percent. And so, we paid a heavy price for that. We worked very hard together to bring those numbers down.

And so in September, October, and then leading into November, things got better. But in the last four weeks, things have gone up quite a bit. So, we know how bad it can get. We, in terms of the ICU, we were in phase 2 capacity. And we were concerned whether or not there would be sufficient hospital space.

We don't want to return to those months that we face in June, July and August. But when you look at what's happening now, certain when you look at other parts of the country, when we see what's taking place, for example, in West Texas, in El Paso in particular. And when I'm looking at the numbers that we are reporting, every single day, the positivity rate is increasing, the number of hospitalizations, that number is increasing.

So we're heading in the wrong direction and we'll waving the red flag. And if people come together, for example, during these Thanksgiving holidays of these, you can go from zero to 60 very, very quickly.

ACOSTA: And you were just mentioning El Paso, Texas, that city has some 13 mobile morgues being used to alleviate stress on funeral homes. The Texas National Guard has been mobilized to help. How concerned are you that your city could see a similar situation?

TURNER: Well, I'm glad you asked that. I talked to the county judge of El Paso just this past week, and he was telling me about how great the situation out there and I offered anything that city of Houston can do to assist. We stand ready to assist them as well. We know we're facing a situation here but in Texas we come together and because this virus doesn't stop at the geographical limits.

And so, recognizing what has taken place, for example, in West Texas and other parts of the country. You know base -- and we can be in the same similar situation if we do not take note and if we don't modify our behavior.

[17:50:04]

If we treat it as if this virus is yesterday's news, then we are going to face what happened during the summer. But the numbers are increasing, and that's what I'm telling people in the city of Houston and the surrounding region. We have to take it very, very seriously. This virus breeds on togetherness. And it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what your socioeconomic background is, and it's having a disproportional impact on people and neighborhoods of color.

ACOSTA: All right, Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner, happy Thanksgiving, a smaller scale Thanksgiving and thanks for joining us. We appreciate it.

TURNER: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: And for the --

TURNER: OK, happy Thanksgiving.

ACOSTA: You too. And for the first time in more than a century, Americans will celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow as a pandemic is sweeping across the country and health experts are warning against the large gatherings that the Mayor was just talking about that our tradition for so many families.

CNN's Brian Todd is working that story for us. Brian, these same experts have some advice for making these gatherings safer.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They do, Jim, and they say that even the small to mid-size gatherings can be risky. They say that this year, Americans are going to have to do things differently and get creative to stay safe at Thanksgiving.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): This year, unprecedented warnings from health experts about Thanksgiving.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: We're all in trouble. And, in fact, this is a potentially life threatening situation for our whole country.

DR. JAMES PHILLIPS, PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: We're going to see an unprecedented surge in our hospital systems and in positive cases across the country following a holiday. TODD (voice-over): The current upward surge in coronavirus cases and hospitalizations is only getting worse as we head into Thanksgiving. And tonight, top health officials and experts are pleading with Americans to take measures to stay safe over this holiday.

COLLINS: This thing looks like a mask. It's actually a medical device that can be lifesaving. Think of it that way. You wouldn't hold back on that if you thought you could help somebody. Keep those distances where they need to be 6 feet or more. Avoid those indoor gatherings.

TODD (voice-over): That recommendation to consider canceling gatherings is one piece of guidance the CDC recently issued to Americans regarding Thanksgiving. Other recommendations from the agency, consider having Thanksgiving dinner outdoors. But is that realistic for people who live in the northern half of the U.S.?

ANNE RIMOIN, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, UCLA FIELDING SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Outdoor dinners may not be feasible for a large portion of the United States, anybody that's living in areas where it is going to be cold. So the best thing you can do if you are going to have people come to your house is to spread it out and to open as many windows as you can, provide as much circulation as you possibly can.

TODD (voice-over): Other recommendations from the CDC think about hosting virtual dinners, limit the number of people at any gathering.

PHILLIPS: Having a small gathering of five or six people might be reasonable if you're within a bubble who you know each person is maintaining their distance, wearing their masks and protect themselves as well as possible.

TODD (voice-over): As for wearing masks at Thanksgiving, experts acknowledge masks have to come off when people are eating. But one experts suggest placing a straw under your mask when you drink so the only time you take the mask off is to actually eat. And she has other recommendations many of us may not have thought of.

RIMOIN: What you should do is have people eat in various places in the household with their own family pod. Don't have loud music, do everything you can turn music way down so that people do not have to speak loudly. Bring your own plates, bring your own utensils, bring your own serving dishes and take them home with you.

TODD (voice-over): Or as painful as it might be, experts say for many Americans, it might be best not to come together for Thanksgiving at all this year.

PHILLIPS: My 100 percent medical opinion is that we need to sacrifice our holidays this year. We need to stay at home in our own personal household bubble for Thanksgiving, Hanukkah, Christmas and New Year's.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: One expert believes we could see a spike in deaths around Christmas time this year because of Thanksgiving, pointing out that the patterns indicate that we often see deaths from coronavirus start to occur about three weeks after exposure, making our behavior this Thanksgiving all the more crucial. Jim?

ACOSTA: Very important information. Brian Todd, thank you very much for that.

And the breaking news is next, President Trump pardons his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. We'll look at who else might be on his pardon list.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:42]

ACOSTA: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off this evening. I'm Jim Acosta in THE SITUATION ROOM and we're following breaking news. President Trump has just announced a full pardon for his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, a key figure in Robert Mueller's Russia investigation who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.

Also breaking just a short time ago, President-elect Joe Biden delivered a sober compassionate Thanksgiving addressed to a nation in the grips of a worsening pandemic.