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Trump Legal Team Shakeup; New Footage Of Capitol Building Riot; President Biden Meets With Republican Senators; U.S. Tops 442,000 COVID Deaths And 26 Million Cases After January Was Deadliest Month Of The Pandemic; Biden Meeting With GOP Senators On COVID Relief; Sources: Dem Impeachment Managers To Accuse Trump Of Intentionally Inciting Riot With Campaign To Subvert The Will Of The Voters. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 01, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:29]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. We're following breaking news on President Biden's talks with Republican senators as he struggles to get bipartisan support for his $1.9 trillion COVID relief plan.

At last word, the talks were still under way inside the White House, but we do expect to hear from the Republican senators once they walk out. We will have live coverage of that, get their read on how it went.

Even before the meeting got started, congressional Democrats took a first step in setting up a process that would allow them to approve COVID relief without -- repeat -- without Republican votes.

Also breaking right now, new details emerging about the case against former President Trump that will be made during had his impeachment trial next week. We're told House Democrats plan to accuse him of intentionally inciting rioters with a months-long effort to subvert the will of the American voters, this as divided Republicans grapple with the future of the GOP after Trump and just ahead of a critical party meeting from the House Republican leadership on Wednesday.

Let's go straight to the White House right now.

Our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, is joining us right now.

Kaitlan, President Biden's goal of passing COVID relief with bipartisan support is facing a huge test right now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is.

And the White House said to not expect them to walk out of this Oval Office meeting with President Biden and these Republican senators with a deal in their arms. But, of course, that comes after these Republicans put forward a much more limited plan from what you had seen from President Biden.

Of course, his is this $1.9 trillion plan. There's a much smaller scale, closer to the $600 billion range.

But, Wolf, this comes as the White House is saying this is a sign of this effort from President Biden to get bipartisanship here, but it also comes as Democrats on Capitol Hill are paving the way to move forward with only Democratic votes for this relief package.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Feel like I'm back in the Senate.

K. COLLINS (voice-over): President Biden sitting down tonight with 10 Republican senators amid contentious negotiations over his sweeping coronavirus relief proposal.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): Thanks for the opportunity.

BIDEN: No, no, I'm anxious to -- I'm anxious to talk.

K. COLLINS: Without taking any questions on the talks, Biden invited the GOP group, led by Senator Susan Collins of Maine, after they proposed a $600 billion counteroffer to his $1.9 trillion package.

The White House downplayed expectations for the meeting, while noting the Republican proposal was less than a third of what Biden offered.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What this meeting is not is a forum for the president to make or accept an offer. Clearly, he thinks the package size needs to be closer to what he proposed than smaller.

K. COLLINS: No congressional Republicans have signed on to Biden's plan, but the White House touted West Virginia's Republican governor's support for a bigger package.

GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R-WV): With what we have got going on in this country, if we actually throw away some money right now, so what? We have really got to move and get people taken care of.

K. COLLINS: The question of whether Biden will go big or go bipartisan has loomed over Washington as Democrats appear ready to go it alone.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): The question is not bipartisanship. The question is addressing the unprecedented crises that we face right now. If Republicans want to work with us, they have better ideas on how to address those crises, that's great. But, to be honest with you, I have not yet heard that.

K. COLLINS: Democrats hold the majority, but only by a thread, causing the White House to move quickly after an interview by the vice president antagonized one of the Senate's most moderate Democrats.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I saw it. I couldn't believe it. No one called me. We're going to try to find a bipartisan pathway forward. I think we need to. But we need to work together. That's not a way of working together, what was done.

K. COLLINS: West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin complained after Vice President Kamala Harris went on local news in his state to sell the package, which he saw as an attempt to pressure him.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people deserve their leaders to step up and stand up for them.

K. COLLINS: The White House reached out to Manchin afterward, but didn't say who called him.

PSAKI: We have been in touch with Senator Manchin. Not only is he a key partner, and -- to the president and to the White House on this package, but on his agenda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

K. COLLINS: Now, Wolf, Democrats appear to be ready to go it alone with or without GOP support here, because they are introducing a budget resolution Capitol Hill.

[18:05:03]

That's the first step on that reconciliation process. And, basically, in simple terms, that means they that's the way they can achieve this, get this through Congress without getting Republican votes in the Senate.

So, we're waiting to see what's going to be the outcome of this meeting here at the White House. What does President Biden say after this? We do expect to hear from Republicans at these microphones right outside the West Wing as soon as this is over. So, we will let you know what they say, Wolf.

BLITZER: As soon as they come to what we call the stakeout over there outside the West Wing of the White House, we will have live coverage of that.

Kaitlan, don't go too far away. I think we are going to need you for some analysis after that as well.

Also tonight, as House impeachment managers are preparing their case against the former president, the former president's defense team apparently is still pretty much in disarray.

Let's go to our chief domestic correspondent, Jim Acosta. He is joining us right now.

Jim, Trump just hired some rather controversial new lawyers the week before his trial. Update our viewers on the very latest.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.

And Democrats are beginning to preview some of the arguments they will be making at Donald Trump's second impeachment trial, with sources telling CNN the case will be made that Trump acted intentionally in a months-long effort to subvert the will of the voter that incited the Capitol siege on January 6.

Now, as for Trump, an adviser said more attorneys may be added to the ex-president's impeachment team in the coming days. And a separate adviser told me the former president is still obsessed with the big lie that the 2020 election was rigged, saying -- quote -- "He just wants the world to know the election was stolen from him," which, of course, is not true.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

ACOSTA (voice-over): With little more than one week before his second impeachment trial, this time for inciting the insurrection at the Capitol, former President Donald Trump is still working out the kinks on his defense team, bringing on two new attorneys, David Schoen and Bruce Castor, to replace the five lawyers who bailed on him last week.

It's likely Trump has seen his new impeachment attorneys in action television.

Schoen defended longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone, whose sentence in the Russia investigation was commuted by the former president.

DAVID SCHOEN, ATTORNEY FOR ROGER STONE: This commutation is a great tribute to President Trump.

ACOSTA: Castor, a former prosecutor, made headlines for declining to charge actor Bill Cosby for sex crimes.

Adding to the coming impeachment spectacle, Trump is expected to resurrect his big lie that the election was stolen from him.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): To me, that just says it's really important that, as a country, we come face to face with the facts and the truth.

ACOSTA: Democrats will steer their case to Trump's role in the Capitol siege, noting, even some of the writers, like the so-called QAnon Shaman, believe the former president is responsible.

ALBERT WATKINS, ATTORNEY FOR JACOB CHANSLEY: He regrets very, very much having not just been duped by the president, but by being in a position where he allowed that duping to put him in a position of making decisions that he should not have made.

ACOSTA: Another problem for Trump, his ties to GOP lawmakers who are still lying about the election, including Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who tweeted over the weekend: "I had a great call with my all-time favorite POTUS, President Trump."

House Republicans are still deciding whether to punish the controversial lawmaker, who's under pressure from Democrats, insisting she be stripped of her committee assignments. Even some in the GOP agree the party needs to take a stand. SEN. ROB PORTMAN (R-OH): I think Republican leaders ought to stand up

and say it is totally unacceptable, what she has said.

ACOSTA: The post-Trump era is getting even more messy for Republicans, as others in the party would rather go after Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who voted to impeach the ex-president.

Over at the White House, Press Secretary Jen Psaki said the new administration isn't paying much attention to the lingering Trump drama.

PSAKI: We don't spend a lot of time talking about or thinking about President Trump here, former President Trump, to be very clear. I can't say we miss him on Twitter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, as for Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, she told the conservative One American News Network that she now believes that school shootings are real. That's Greene doing some damage control that after she was caught on camera harassing school shooting victims and claiming that these mass casualty events were somehow fake.

That doesn't take care of all of the other conspiracy theories she has endorsed in the past, which means she will continue to be a major headache for the Republican Party.

And, Wolf, we should note House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has still not indicated what he plans to do about Greene, but our colleagues up on Capitol Hill are reporting adjust in the last several minutes that McCarthy and Greene are likely to meet tomorrow evening, Wolf.

This comes as there is tremendous pressure being brought on Greene, on the Republicans by House Democrats, saying, if the Republicans don't do something about her, she will be stripped of her committee assignments -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, the Education and Labor Committee, as well as the Budget Committee, and a whole bunch of people don't want her to serve on any committee.

All right, Jim Acosta, thank you very much.

Let's discuss what's going on with CNN congressional correspondent Ryan Nobles, CNN senior commentator the former Ohio Republican Governor John Kasich, and CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, the author of the book "My Vanishing Country."

[18:10:00]

Governor Kasich, let's talk a little bit about this meeting that's apparently still going on between the president, 10 Republican senators.

How important is it that President Biden's first major piece of legislation is passed with at least some, at least some bipartisan support?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's critical, Wolf.

This is what -- part of the reason why I supported him is, I thought he would bring people together. And I think it's essential that they be able to get Republicans.

And, look, we have got Biden at like $1.9 trillion, and we got the Republicans about 600 billion. They need to sit down, they need to work this thing out. And, look, I know, we're all concerned about we have got to make sure this is targeted. We got to make sure that we are -- we have this going to the people that really need it, because I got to tell you, I was the chairman of the Budget Committee.

I spent 10 years of my life fighting the balance the budget and got it done. And the economy did great. But when we are spending money, including under Trump and with Republicans, who I have criticized for this, we are putting at risk the future, the financial future of our children and our grandchildren.

This money doesn't grow on trees. It is a claim. Spending and getting this debt is a claim on the future. It's a claim on future progress. So yes, we got to help people who are unemployed, we got to get some money to the states to distribute the vaccine. There's no argument about any of that.

But let's make sure it's targeted. Let's not give money to people who are making $200,000 a year. I mean, you have got to get this thing under control. And what people will say is, well, where were the Republicans before? They were out to lunch.

I argued on -- about this on the debate stage that Trump didn't know what he was talking about. And so, look, I'm saying this as an American that's worried about the future of our country. And those are those children and grandchildren who at some day, Wolf, are going to have to pay these bills.

And that will affect the ability to create jobs and grow an economy.

BLITZER: You know, Ryan...

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: We need help, but let's not go over the top here. Let's do something that works. And let's do it together.

BLITZER: Well, let's see if they can.

Ryan, there's still, as we know, this huge gap between the Biden proposal, $1.9 trillion, the Republican proposal, around $600 billion. What do you what are you hearing over there?

Is it really possible to find a compromise, let's say, somewhere in the middle?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Honestly, Wolf, I know Governor Kasich is hoping for a bipartisan plan.

Obviously, President Biden would like to see a bipartisan plan. But when you talk to Democrats on Capitol Hill, that is not a huge priority. They would much rather see as much funding as possible delivered to as many people as possible in this COVID relief package.

I talked to two different Democratic members of Congress in just the last hour. And they told me that they're much more concerned with results than they are whether or not there are any Republicans that sign on to this bill at all. And that's why you have seen them swiftly move to set the stage to move this package through reconciliation.

They introduced those budget resolutions in both the Senate and the House today to begin that process. They're only going to wait so long for Republicans to be a part of this negotiation. It's not as though they're leaving them out. They're willing to have them be part of that conversation.

But they're not going to budge all that much. And the other thing they're very concerned about is the timing of all of this. I talked to Jan Schakowsky from Illinois, who talked about the number one call that she is getting to her phone lines from her constituents is complaints about access to the vaccine.

She said they desperately need funding to get those vaccines in people's arms, and they cannot wait.

KASICH: Sure.

NOBLES: And so they're not going to wait for Republicans to be a part of that process if they don't have to.

BLITZER: What do you think, Bakari? Do voters really care if this bill is bipartisan? Or do they simply want some economic relief, even if only Democrats vote for it?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I just have to disagree with my good friend Governor Kasich, because it's going to be bipartisan, but it may not be bipartisan within the United States senators.

I mean, what we're going to see is that the Republicans on the ground, common Americans, you saw the governor of West Virginia, are going to come out and support President Biden going home -- going big. Go big or go home. Excuse me.

And the fact remains that we have had not one, but two elections. We have had Joe Biden get elected. And then we had two United States senators out of the state of Georgia get elected because they believed in the promises made by the Democratic Party when it comes to COVID and COVID relief.

And while we're talking about the future -- and, yes, it's amazing. I'm to hear Governor KASICH talk about debt in the way that he is, the passion that he is. But for last four years, that was not an argument that was made.

And my argument in response would be that these are unprecedented times.

KASICH: It was made by me. It was made by me.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: That's unfortunate -- that's unfortunate that your voice was not the majority of the party or the president.

KASICH: I know.

SELLERS: But my only point remains that, while it is true, while it is true that our children will pick up that tab, there are a lot of people that are hurting right now.

And nobody wants people who are making a quarter-million dollars or $300,000 to get the money, but there are people right now who are trying to make ends meet.

[18:15:07]

The last stimulus package that was passed, it didn't even have any money for state and local governments. So, you need the vaccine rollout. You need to make sure schools can open up. Individuals need, I would say, $2,000 -- but now we're down to $1,400 in their pocket -- we need to make sure that we have unemployment insurance that is backed.

I mean, these are things that are necessary. And, yes, we can have a conversation about the future and our children, but I'm worried about right now as well.

BLITZER: All right.

SELLERS: And we need swift action.

BLITZER: Governor Kasich, go ahead.

KASICH: Wolf, let me just jump in and say a couple of things.

First of all, there are a number of states in this country that are not having fiscal troubles, OK? Secondly, no one is saying for a second that we shouldn't have money in there to help distribute the vaccine. And I can tell you that there is money that has still not been spent that was in the last package.

Now, they're at $1.9 billion -- or trillion -- and Joe Biden said, I'm here to restore the soul of America. Well, restoring the soul of America doesn't mean you just do it your way.

Now, I'm not telling you exactly what the number ought to be. I was in so many negotiations on spending. When I inherited the state of Ohio, we were 20 percent in the hole in our general fund. And guess what? I got it fixed. And I left office with a surplus because we grew jobs.

So, look, we have to spend some money here, I'm for that. But you have got to make sure this is targeted, not going to people that don't need it or being sent to state -- state and local governments will always take your money.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Nobody is asking for reckless spending. Nobody is asking for reckless spending.

KASICH: OK. Well, then that's all I'm saying.

SELLERS: But the difference between your service then and what we're talking about now is, we're in unprecedented times.

KASICH: Yes, I agree.

SELLERS: And, yes, states are struggling.

While a few states, Governor, have a surplus, many are struggling to meet their basic needs because they have holes the size of the Grand Canyon in them.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: I'm for money for the schools.

SELLERS: Governor, I'm going to finish my thought. I'm going to finish my thought, governor.

KASICH: OK. Yes, sir. Go ahead.

SELLERS: My only point to you is that we have needs that are urgent, and they need to be met now.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: We agree with that.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Governor, if the Republican Party comes on board...

KASICH: I agree with that.

SELLERS: Governor, I'm just trying to have a thought. This is what this is about.

If they can come on board and have ideas that are equally as good, if not better, with some urgency, then so be it. I completely am on board with that.

But, right now, the bond is with the American people who need relief, and they need it quickly. We don't have time to wait to play games about what America should be.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I got to cut this off.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Hold on. Hold on, Governor. Hold on, Governor. We're going to continue this conversation.

We're standing by to hear what these Republican -- these 10 Republican senators are going to say. Once they walk out of the West Wing, they're going to go to the microphones. We will get a sense of how this meeting went.

We will have live coverage of that. We want to get your thoughts after that as well.

But there's other important news we're following, including this. Authorities are filing charges against a key suspect in the deadly Capitol insurrection.

And after the deadliest month of the coronavirus pandemic so far, we're going to break down the challenges just ahead in the push for vaccinations and the threat of these new COVID variants.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:22:08]

BLITZER: You're looking at live pictures, a microphone just outside the West Wing of the White House.

You see the Marine guard there. We expect these 10 Republican senators who have been meeting with President Biden to emerge, make a statement. We will have live coverage. Stand by for that.

Meanwhile, there are new charges tonight that have been filed against suspects in the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, including a man accused of attacking an officer who suffered a concussion during the riot.

CNN's Brian Todd is following all of this for us.

Brian, so what more are you learning?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, tonight, important new information on arrests in this investigation, including more conspiracy charges filed. Also, jarring new video from the earliest moments of the assault will be used to prosecute one of the rioters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): Dramatic video capturing what's believed to be one of the first moments that the U.S. Capitol was breached on January 6.

At one point, the man in the blue jacket takes the jacket off, puts his Make America Great Again cap on backward, seemingly ready to escalate.

UNIDENTIFIED RIOTERS: USA! USA!

TODD: Moments later, the escalation occurs. The man in the backwards cap and others push over a police barricade. A female officer is down. The FBI now says she was knocked unconscious and had a concussion.

Federal prosecutors have now charged the man in the backwards cap with forcibly assaulting a police officer, among other charges. They identify him as Ryan Samsel, on parole from prison in Pennsylvania, wanted in New Jersey for an alleged assault in 2019, according to his criminal federal complaint.

An FBI document says, Samsel picked the female officer up off the ground and said -- quote -- "We don't have to hurt you. Why are you standing in our way?"

CNN has not heard back from an attorney for Samsel.

That same video posted by a reporter with a conservative Web site The Blaze shows more hand-to-hand combat between officers and rioters, an officer here throwing punches, desperately trying to hold the crowd back.

GREG EHRIE, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: These people came here with the potential that they were going to commit violence to further this ideology. This was not, in other terms, an escalation that slowly turned up.

TODD: Meantime, more conspiracy charges are being filed against members of far right extremist groups. Two members of the group the Proud Boys are now charged with conspiracy in connection with the January 6 riots.

It's the first case related to the assault to charge members of the Proud Boys of working together to coordinate the attack, but these two defendants are not accused of planning the attack before they came to Washington.

And a new CNN analysis indicates current and former members of the U.S. military are overrepresented among the more than 175 people who have been arrested so far in connection with the assault. Experts say those who could be affiliated with extremist groups could be dangerous.

[18:25:00]

MICHAEL GERMAN, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Many of the people within these violent white supremacist and far right militant groups were trained by the United States Army, right? That's the kind of training and experience that foreign terrorist groups don't have, would drool over.

TODD: Tonight, sources tell CNN the FBI's probe into the Capitol assault is the bureau's largest investigation since the September 11 attacks.

EHRIE: It's taking up a lot of the Bureau's resources, which are being redirected from other threats, which is going to be a concern that the FBI and other law enforcement agencies don't have a lot more bandwidth to stretch like this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Meanwhile, law enforcement has not yet publicly named any suspects in the death of Capitol Hill Police Officer Brian Sicknick. Sicknick's body will lie in honor starting tomorrow night in the Rotunda of the U.S. Capitol.

Lying in state is usually an honor reserved for leaders of government. But several members of Congress had called for that honor to be bestowed on Officer Sicknick -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you, Brian Todd reporting.

Just ahead: production now ramping up for the first at-home COVID test you can buy over the counter. But how accurate is it?

We will update you on that and more when we come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: We're following all the breaking news on the coronavirus pandemic, as President Biden has been meeting with Senate Republicans about his proposed COVID stimulus package. We expect to hear from the ten Republicans once the meeting is over. It's going on still. The White House is stressing the urgent need for relief as the pandemic takes a growing toll on Americans' lives and livelihoods.

Let's go to CNN's Nick Watt. Nick, we're coming off, what, deadliest month of the pandemic so far.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. In January, in this country, 95,369 lives were lost. But, listen, there is hope for a better tomorrow. A lot of that hope revolves around tests and vaccines. And tonight, there are developments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (voice over): Production now ramping up on this, an at-home, over-the-counter COVID-19 test, roughly 95 percent accurate results in just 15 minutes.

ANDY SLAVITT, SENIOR ADVISER TO WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE TEAM: It can be used if you feel symptoms of COVID-19 and also for screening for people without symptoms, so they can safely go to work, to school and to events.

WATT: Meanwhile, in the still sluggish vaccine rollout --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just ridiculous.

WATT: -- there is at least one simple way to speed this up. West Virginia Governor Jim Justice gets it.

GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R-WV): If we've got vaccines that are sitting on a warehouse shelf, I mean, they need to be in somebody's arms.

WATT: But just six states, including his, have so far injected more than 75 percent of the doses they have been given. Today, a forceful message from the feds, do not hold back for second doses.

SLAVITT: It does not need to happen and should not happen.

WATT: Because unlike Team Trump, Team Biden has pledged to give states three weeks' notice when more doses are coming and how many.

SLAVITT: They now have the predictability that the second dose will be there when the time comes.

WATT: Fenway Park Boston now a vaccination site, but when baseball starts?

SAM KENNEDY, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BOSTON RED SOX: We'll figure it out. It's just too important. We have got to get everybody vaccinated.

WATT: Elsewhere in the northeast, a massive winter storm is getting in the way, closing many sites in New York.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): It is very dangerous out there.

WATT: Here is the hope. After nearly two months, there are finally fewer than 100,000 Americans in the hospital right now fighting COVID- 19. But --

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: Variants remain a great concern and we continue to detect them in the United States.

WATT: That more contagious strain first found in the U.K. now spreading here, fast.

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: What we're likely to see is regionalized epidemics with this new variant. And at two places in the country right now that are the biggest hot spots are Southern California and Southern Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): So as of midnight tonight, Wolf, you've got to wear a mask on mass transit everywhere in this country. But, meanwhile, some localities are easing restrictions. We just heard Southern California might be a hot spot for a variant surge, but in Los Angeles, outdoor dining is now back with a few restrictions, but it's back. Wolf?

BLITZER: Nick Watt in L.A. for us. Nick, thank you very much.

Let's get more on all of this. Dr. Paul Offit is joining us. He is the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He's also member of the FDA's Vaccines Advisory Committee. Dr. Offit, thank you so much for joining us.

I spoke with Dr. Fauci in the last hour here in The Situation Room. He told me the South Africa variant, that South Africa saw a very high rate of re-infection with its COVID variant. How worried are you that Americans could be re-infected in a new wave, a new wave of this COVID variant?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, MEMBER, FDA VACCINES ADVISORY COMMITTEE: Well, the question is, what is the nature of the re-infection? So, in other words, if you were infected with the South African strain and then you were exposed to it again, did you have asymptomatic infection, mildly symptomatic infection, which is the real likely story.

I mean, it's unlikely that you would then be sort of hospitalized or put in the intensive care unit or die with the second infection. That certainly was the story with the strains that we've dealt with so far, the original strain, the so-called longtime (ph) strain, the U.K. strain. I mean, as yet, we don't really hear that story, which is, frankly, encouraging. But we need that data.

BLITZER: Let's get to the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. You're on the committee over at the FDA that will look at all the data, will make a recommendation to the FDA on authorization.

[18:35:00]

Dr. Fauci told me in the last hour that people shouldn't get hung up on the slightly lower efficacy. First of all, do you agree?

OFFIT: Completely. I think the goal of this vaccine, really, is to keep you from visiting a doctor, keep you from going to the hospital and keep you from dying. And I think, you know, with the Moderna vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine, those vaccines were even able to prevent mild infection, which is nice.

But I think when you're talking about having limited vaccines, here, you have a Johnson & Johnson vaccine, at least as far as we know from the press releases, and I haven't seen the data yet nor has our committee, it looks like it's very good at preventing severe disease, which is what you want.

I think people are scared of this virus. I think when they hear that they have got a vaccine that will keep them from being hospitalized or dying, I think that would be a desirous product.

BLITZER: It certainly would be. the J&J vaccine, as it's called, if it's authorized would you expect that higher risk people should get priority for the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines and, let's say, younger, lower risk people get the Johnson & Johnson vaccine?

OFFIT: Again it depends on the data. I mean, you want to see the data. How effective is this vaccine for people over 65 or 75? How effective is this vaccine for people that have various co-morbidities? I mean, the job of the FDA and the FDA advisory committee really is to say, okay, we have data that says that this is effective and so it can be distributed. It's the advisory committee for immunization practices at the CDC that says, look, we can recommend it for this group but not that group.

BLITZER: I take it you agree with me, not that I'm an expert or anything, but I suspect that people should take whatever, whichever vaccine is offered to them as quickly as possible to potentially help them from getting sick.

OFFIT: I agree completely. And, again, we need to see the J&J data. But at least it's a single-dose vaccine, it's refrigerator stable, it's easily transported. So there are advantages to this vaccine. And it's nice to know that one dose might be all you need to really protect you against severe disease, whereas with Moderna and Pfizer, for at least the data we have, with two doses of vaccine.

BLITZER: Would it make any sense to do two doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine? Because right now, they say you only need one, but would it make sense to get a booster?

OFFIT: Well, we'll see. Certainly, in the United States right now, Johnson & Johnson is doing a two-dose trial. So we'll see whether or not those data show that the second dose induces better immunity. It's likely but we'll wait and see.

BLITZER: When do you think we will know about this Johnson & Johnson vaccine, because that will be critically important in getting people vaccinated?

OFFIT: Right. Well, you know, I'm on the FDA's Vaccines Advisory Committee. As far as I know, we haven't set a date for looking at those data. Usually, you have to allow 15 days for the announcement of that meeting in the federal register. So at least, in theory, it's at least 15 days from now.

BLITZER: Emergency use authorization, Pfizer, Moderna, they have it, they have been doing it. Let's see what happens with J&J. All right, Dr. Offit, as usual, thank you so much.

OFFIT: Thank you.

BLITZER: All right. Just ahead, the latest on the meeting between Republican senators and President Biden over at the White House. You're looking at live pictures. That's the stakeout. We call it the stakeout, right outside the west wing of the White House. We expect Republican senators to emerge from the meeting, walk out there, make a statement, answer reporters' questions. We'll see what's going on. This is critically important as far as the COVID stimulus package is concerned.

Plus, we're also learning new details right now of how House impeachment managers are planning to prosecute former President Trump when his Senate trial begins next week.

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[18:40:00]

BLITZER: This hour, President Biden's meeting with the Republican senators appears to have gone into overtime a bit as they discuss the size and scope of a new emergency COVID-19 relief package for the American people.

Let's bring back our Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, they've been talking, what, for more than an hour-and-a-half or so in the Oval Office. I anticipated maybe an hour meeting but it's going on longer. What are you hearing?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just about, Wolf, because they took reporters in the room about 5:15 or so. They were only in there briefly. You saw that quick appearance where President Biden did not take any questions. That was at the beginning of this meeting.

You saw him there say he was anxious to talk to these Republicans who had thanked him for his invitation after they put out this $600 billion counterproposal. Of course, that is a lot different than the $1.9 trillion proposal that he has put forth from the White House perspective.

So we are told this meeting a few minutes ago, this meeting was still going on. It's not clear how it's going. Of course, it is nine senators in the room, the tenth Republican senator, Wolf, is on the phone. When Republican senators or any senators for that matter get in a room, there's a lot of talking that can go on. Those conversations could sometimes stretch for a little while.

So we are waiting to get their readout of this because we are expecting Republicans to come to these microphones in front of the west wing, give us an update on what's going on.

But we should note to viewers that the White House is really downplaying expectations for this meeting, saying earlier they were not expecting them to walk out of it with any kind of agreement, that Biden was going to offer to them or that he was going to accept from these Republicans. And, instead, this is really this exchange of ideas, they said, in an effort by the White House to say they're serious because there have been multiple questions about what the calls for unity were going to look like if no Republicans went on board with this.

So the question of whether or not this changes what Biden wants to see in this proposal ultimately, Wolf, still remains to be seen, but this meeting is still going on. It's longer than the White House expected. So we do not have a readout of it yet.

BLITZER: As soon as they walk out to those microphones outside the west wing, we'll have live coverage of that. That's coming up.

All right, Kaitlan, don't go too far away.

Just ahead, we're getting new details at the same time about the strategy that House Democratic impeachment managers will use in the upcoming Senate trial next week against the former president.

[18:45:07] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:49:36]

BLITZER: We're following breaking news. New details emerging right now of how House impeachment managers are preparing their case for the Senate impeachment trial that begins in just one week. Sources tell CNN they plan to accuse the former president, Donald Trump, of intentionally inciting rioters with his month's long effort to subvert the will of the American voters.

Let's discuss with Norm Eisen, who served as impeachment counsel for House Democrats during the first Trump impeachment trial a year ago.

[18:50:05]

He's also a CNN legal analyst.

Norm, what do you make of this strategy from House Democratic impeachment managers that we're hearing right now? Do you believe it's the right move?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Wolf, thanks for having me back.

And I do think it is the right move to go right at the president on the incitement of insurrection. He knew just what he was doing, Wolf. There was long run up to it. He fanned the flames and then on January 6, he poured the gasoline. Anyone could have understood the explosion would follow as it did in the tragic events at the capitol.

BLITZER: We're learning also, Norm, about former President Trump's impeachment strategy as well. Give us your reaction to this shakeup of his legal team, which was apparently driven by his previous team's reluctance to repeat his lies about the election.

EISEN: Well, Wolf, just today, we saw the consequences that lawyers can face if they tell these terrible lies that an election was stolen, they inflame sentiments of the mob and then the mob attacks. Today in Michigan, disbarment procedures were filed against Sidney Powell and other lawyers who argued those lies to the courts in Michigan, and these lawyers who quit on Saturday night were facing the same, Trump pressing them, according to CNN's reporting, pressing them to repeat those falsehoods. So, lawyers should not do that.

And, Wolf, I have a warning for the new lawyers. They will face the same serious consequences if they repeat those lies. And tomorrow will be an important test when Trump makes his first filing with the Senate.

BLITZER: Will that be released publicly, the additional filing from the Trump legal team tomorrow?

EISEN: Yes, we'll have two important filings tomorrow. First, the House will file its brief laying out its case as a matter of fact and law, and then Trump will file his response to the article of impeachment. In the last impeachment, it was short but it did hit all of the main points that we saw in the impeachment trial. It was just seven pages or so last time around.

So, we are expecting to see a similar filing that will tip the hand whether Trump will try once again to advance those totally baseless claims that led to a riot on January 6th, and whether his lawyers will go along with it at great personal peril to them.

BLITZER: What do you know about David Schoen and Bruce Castor, these two layers, who've just brought on to the former president's legal team?

EISEN: Well, Schoen is no stranger to these kinds of high profile matters, worked on the Stone litigation, Roger Stone, the president's confidant. He does have a penchant for conspiracies. He's made claims about the death of Jeffrey Epstein, for example, that are a little implausible, extremely implausible.

And then Mr. Castor is a relative of someone I know well, Steve Castor, who litigated the prior impeachment on behalf of the Republicans, and Republican partisan from the state of Pennsylvania.

But how far will they go, Wolf? Will they remember their ultimate loyalty is to the law as attorneys, that they're accountable to the state bars of which they're a member, or will they instead take a pledge of allegiance to Trump above all. That ends up with not only the client but the lawyers getting in trouble.

BLITZER: Do you think the former president is trying to justify the behavior of rioters by saying their concerns over election fraud were indeed valid?

EISEN: Well, there can be no justification. Even the former president eventually, and it took him awhile, that's going to be one of the issues in the impeachment, proving his intent to incite this insurrection. Even he eventually was forced to repudiate the violence.

But I think the underlying issue that Trump used to build up that insurrection for months, Wolf, before the election, he said if I lose, it's rigged. That underlying pack of lies is a side show.

[18:55:01]

The Republican senators don't want to hear it. The Democratic senators certainly don't want to hear it.

If Trump continues his mania and his obsession and drags these lawyers, who are supposed to uphold legal standards no matter what your client wants, then that will be terrible for the country, it will be bad for the trial. It will be bad for Trump.

That is one thing that could really drive these impeachers into Democrats' arms.

BLITZER: We'll have extensive coverage next week of this trial.

Norm Eisen, thank you very much.

And we'll have more news just ahead.

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BLITZER: Finally, tonight, we share more stories of people who died from the coronavirus.

Sylvia and Michael Koire of Florida were 91 and 93. The couple were teenage sweethearts before parting ways and starting separate families. They reconnected over 50 years later and marry.

The pair were known for their humor and silliness, Michael would sing love songs as Sylvia lovingly teased him. Sylvia's daughter says they were an amazing couple with a beautiful, long love story. They died just three days apart.

May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.