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CDC Advisers Recommend Resuming Use of J&J Coronavirus Vaccine; Sources: Rep. Matt Gaetz Probe 2018 Bahamas Trip Focusing on Potential Effort to Illegally Influence Him on Medical Marijuana; Ohio Police Release More Bodycam Video Of Teen's Shooting Death; CNN Gains Access To Front Line Of Fierce Battle That Could Mark A Turning Point In Yemen War. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 23, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Starting Monday, the lead expands to two hours, two hours every day. Join me every weekday live from D.C. 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. Eastern.

I'm Jake Tapper. Our coverage on CNN continues right now. Have a fantastic weekend.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room. We're following breaking news.

The CDC advisory committee has just now voted to recommend resuming use of the single dose Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine. It's now linked to some 15 cases of a very, very rare blood clotting that condition. All of those conditions occurred in women.

I want to get immediately to the breaking news we're following. CNN's Nick Watt is working the story for us.

Nick, this is a -- this has huge implications for the fight against the pandemic that the J&J vaccine will now be made available here in the United States.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Wolf. This vaccine is key to the rollout because it's one shot and it does not require ultra-cold storage. Now, this committee debated heard presentations for nearly six hours. The only real point of contention was whether to say that women under 50 could be given the option of a different vaccine. They decided against that, saying that it was perhaps confusing or maybe impractical. The final vote was 10 votes in favor, four against, and one abstention.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

WATT (voice-over): Looks like Johnson & Johnson's vaccine will soon be back in the game with a new warning label and patient instructions.

DR. JOANNE WALDSTREICHER, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, JOHNSON & JOHNSON: We recognize that there is a very rare but important and serious risk. WATT: As of Wednesday, just 15 cases of a rare clotting syndrome confirmed among the nearly 8 million people given the J&J vaccine. All in women most between the ages of 18 and 39.

DR. TOM SHIMABUKURO, CDC COVID VACCINE TEAM LEADER: There were three deaths. Seven remain hospitalized for an intensive care.

WATT: One major benefit of this poll is the time to educate physicians on how to spot and treat clots.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN BROWN UIVERSITY: I now have a different set of things to look for than I would have two weeks ago. It also changes how I treat clots if I find them.

WATT: These very rare clots are treatable.

DR. MICHAEL STREIFF, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Early presentation by education of public and physicians will improve outcomes.

WATT: The CDC director and the FDA still need to sign off on redeploying this vaccine.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: I think the FDA and I both feel strongly. And the CDC feel strongly that we need to act swiftly.

WATT: Because it's a great arrow to have in the COVID quelling quiver.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may be uniquely good and, in some cases, really the only practical option for some people.

WATT: And a longer pause might further fuel vaccine hesitancy. Some big names now on board to fight such fear.

BRAD PRAISLEY, MUSICIAN: It's something to be proud of. And I think, as a as a nation, we are so close to being through this, that I'm just trying to help get us there, because we got to get back on the road.

WATT: The average pace of vaccination just dip back below 3 million shots a day for the first time in a couple of weeks.

JEFF ZEINTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: While we know the next phase of the vaccination program will involve improving access, increasing confidence, ensuring equity, it won't be easy. But neither was getting to 200 million shots in arms in less than 100 days. But we did it.

WATT: So, when can more school aged kids get a shot?

DR. ROBERT FRENCK, DIRECTOR, VACCINE RESEARCH CENTER AT CINCINNATI CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: I'm quite hopeful that even by May, that we would have a vaccine available for 12 and above.

WATT: Manufacturers also prepping for a possible need for booster shots for all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're working very hard to potentially have late summer, early fall that boost over variance.

WATT: Meantime, the average daily COVID-19 case count in the U.S. continues to fall.

DR. CHRIS T. PERNELL, AMERICAN COLLEGE OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE FELLOW PUBLIC HEALTH PHYSICIAN: When we continue to vaccinate all Americans, we will continue to see these numbers move in the right direction, but we cannot afford to let up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: Now, one of the other key messages out of this meeting today, the early symptoms of these possible clots. What to look for, the CDC says the symptoms can be a little vague, headache, might be the keen. Now, not a headache the day after the vaccination that can happen for benign reasons. But a headache a week or two after the vaccination, you should go to your physician and tell them that you have had the shot. Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Nick, thanks very much.

I want to bring in our Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, major breaking news we're watching right now. What are you picking up over at the White House?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the next question as the White House is kind of watching all of this happen. They're not really involved in this decision because it's up to the CDC and the FDA. Now, this is a decision that goes to the CDC director, Dr. Walensky. She's going to make the next decision about whether or not they are going to follow this recommendation to resume the use of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

[17:05:12]

But, Wolf, what I can tell you that as they're waiting on the CDC to make that decision, that the White House is kind of ready to go for this because they do have 9 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson shot that have already been distributed to states and those tribes and territories and even those federal channels that the White House has recently been using to also get people vaccinated. And so, if the CDC does move forward with approving this recommend -- recommendation that they got from this outside advisory panel, Wolf, that can potentially mean that as soon as tomorrow you are seeing people start to get vaccinated with Johnson & Johnson and see it resumed being available in all 50 states because of course, this is the stage that as soon as the federal government had recommended that they stop using Johnson & Johnson a few weeks ago, all 50 states followed suit. And the White House, of course, that kind of sent them into a scramble as they were talking to governors about why this was happening, what they believed the next steps were going to be because there is a bit of a separation between the policy aides here at the White House, those who are working on ramping up vaccinations and the decisions of the FDA and the CDC. They've really worked hard to try to keep that separate because, of course, there were concerns about that during the Trump administration.

So, I think that's what you can look for next. And of course, the big question is how does this affect what you're seeing with these daily vaccination numbers? And the next big thing that the White House is working to combat which is vaccine hesitancy.

BLITZER: Yes, good point, indeed. I know they're watching this so closely over at the White House.

Kaitlan, thank you very much.

Let's get some more of the breaking news right now. Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is with us also with us. Also with us, Dr. Leana Wen, a CNN Medical Analyst, the emergency room physician, former Baltimore City Health Commissioner.

Sanjay, you've been monitoring this very, very closely, the CDC advisory board meeting. What do you make of this decision just announced to resume the Johnson -- to recommend the resumption of the Johnson & Johnson single dose vaccine?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I mean, they've obviously given us a lot of consideration.

BLITZER: Sanjay, hold on for a moment.

GUPTA: Wolf, can you hear me?

BLITZER: We lost your audio for a moment?

GUPTA: OK. All right.

BLITZER: Now we hear you. Go ahead.

GUPTA: I think that the -- it seems like the decision, this was something that, you know, they obviously gave this a lot of consideration. Ten people voted to lift the pause. Four people voted not. They wanted more specific language. One person abstained from the vote. So, there's 15 votes total.

The abstention was because the person was involved with the clinical trials, they had a conflict. But this sort of makes sense, Wolf. I mean, they gave this a lot of review here. If anything, maybe people thought it was taking a little too long to come to this decision.

But what we're hearing is that the pause will -- they're recommending this, this is an advisory committee. But it's likely to become the final decision to lift the pause, and to have a warning specifically about the possible rare occurrence of these blood clots, sending a message mostly to women under the age of 50, that in the rare chance they develop some symptoms that are associated with these blood clots, headache, blurred vision. As Nick Watt said, these are symptoms that typically occur a week or so after the vaccine not right away, then they should talk to their health care provider about that.

And it was also a message to health care providers that some of these clots are very specific clots that need to be treated in a specific way. So, getting specialists involved, hematologists, for example. That that was, I think, what we sort of thought was going to happen, and it sounds like that's what's going to play out. We'll get the final word from Rochelle Walensky the CDC and then the FDA. And then 9 million shots, Wolf, are standing by potentially to go out, we hear.

BLITZER: They've already given about, what, nearly 7 million shots, Sanjay. So, just tell our viewers how rare these blood clots in the brain have been. We're talking, what, 16, 17 cases out of nearly 7 million?

GUPTA: Right. Let me show you this graph. We put the numbers together here. I think to understand specifically how many people actually developed this problem, and then what the denominator was, specifically. How many people within that age group received the vaccine?

If you look at it, I think we can put up the graphic, under the age of 50, basically, maybe a little bit hard to read there. But it was 13 people who actually developed this problem. You can see that that's the -- that's on the left side of the graph versus, you know, the number of lives saved, the number of people who hospitalizations prevented. You can get an idea of how they sort of assess the risk versus the benefit.

It's very clear that the benefit, even if you account for this rare occurrence, these blood clots, the benefit is very much there just looking at the numbers. If you go to women over the age of 50, it's even clearer. There's clear benefit from this vaccine in terms of preventing hospitalization, preventing death.

[17:10:04]

Remember Wolf, for an emergency use authorization, what they ultimately have to show is that the benefits outweigh the risks. That was clear. And that's why it's really no surprise that they've lifted this pause.

BLITZER: Yes, that's the recommendation.

Dr. Wen, you're a physician, but you're also someone who actually received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. So, what's your reaction to this recommendation?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, I am glad that the pause is lifted. And I'm glad that they finally lifted it because there was a real cost to inaction. There were a lot of people who could have received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. In the meantime, we didn't have the opportunity to, so I'm glad that this pause was lifted.

But I actually agree with the four people who dissented with a vote, because I think that there should have been a stronger warning, specifically for women under the age of 50. In this case, all these events occurred in women, and most of the events occurred in younger women. And so, in the U.S., we are so blessed to have two other very effective vaccines, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. I think there should be a stronger warning for women under the age of 50, to recommend that they take one of these other vaccines instead, that don't have this particular problem. Part of informed consent is presenting the risks, the benefits, and the alternatives.

For people who don't have alternatives if you're in a country where Johnson & Johnson is your only option, or if for whatever reason you prefer the one dose vaccine and there are real advantages to having the one dose vaccine, maybe some people have needle phobia, they don't want to come back for a second appointment. They should have the option to choose that Johnson & Johnson vaccine even if they are a woman under the age of 50.

But I also think that having the stronger warning because these are not run of the mill blood clots, these are really serious blood clots that could be fatal. And I think a stronger warning was indicated.

BLITZER: I want both you guys to stand by. We're going to have a lot more on the breaking news.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Dr. Leana Wen, thank you very much.

Also coming up there's other news we're following that's breaking right now. New details just emerging of the federal probe of Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz and possible efforts to influence his position on medical marijuana.

Plus, new developments right now in the deadly police shootings in Ohio and North Carolina. Body camera video playing a key role in both controversial cases.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:14]

BLITZER: New details emerging right now, the federal investigation of the Florida Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. Sources now telling CNN that part of the probe is focused again on a 2018 trip that Gaetz and others took to the Bahamas.

Let's go to our Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez who's working in the story for us.

Evan, first of all, what are you learning about this new part of the investigation?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, CNN has learned that the Federal sex trafficking investigation into Congressman Matt Gaetz includes looking into whether Gaetz took gifts, including travel and paid escorts in exchange for political favors. Now, sources briefed on the matter say that the Justice Department is scrutinizing a 2018 trip to the Bahamas that involves Gaetz and several young women specifically, looking at whether the getaway was part of an orchestrated effort to illegally influence the congressman in the medical marijuana industry. Now, CNN has previously reported that Gaetz is under investigation for engaging in a relationship with a girl who was just 17 at the time, and that Gaetz attended parties in Orlando with other prominent Republicans that involves sex, drugs, and sex from money.

CNN has learned that investigators already have one key witness who is cooperating is Joel Greenberg. He's a former Seminole County tax commissioner down in Florida who is a close friend of Gaetz and also attended some of those parties. He was indicted last year on multiple charges that includes sex trafficking and is expected to plead guilty in the coming weeks.

We have, by the way, a comment from Matt Gaetz, a spokesman Wolf. He says that Gaetz is a longtime policy expert on marijuana. And that, you know, he passed legislation on this issue back in 2013, as far back as 2013. And he ridiculed the idea that there's anything to do with this -- with this Bahamas trip or any of his relationships with these other men.

BLITZER: What are you learning, Evan, about Gaetz's relationship with a Florida doctor involved in the medical marijuana industry?

PEREZ: Well, yes, I mean, so Gaetz has this -- does have a long history advocating for medical marijuana and is introduced legislation both the state level in Florida and here in in Washington at the federal level, looking to loosen those laws that regulate marijuana.

Now, according to reports, published reports, Dr. Jason Pirozzolo, a Florida doctor, who founded a medical marijuana advocacy group went along with Gaetz on this 2018 trip to the Bahamas. Gaetz has referred to the doctor as one of his best friends. The pair have repeatedly intersected over medical marijuana far back as 2014. Gaetz at the time was a state representative in Florida, and he introduced medical marijuana legislation two weeks after vacationing with Pirozzolo in the Florida Keys.

One week after the legislation passed, Pirozzolo launched a medical marijuana consulting company. And in April 2018 when Gaetz introduced a Medical Cannabis Research legislation, a source tells CNN that the congressman hand delivered a fully written draft of the bill to his staff, which overlaps significantly with the agenda from Pirozzolo's group that they've been pushing.

Now, neither Gaetz nor Pirozzolo have been accused by the Justice Department of any wrongdoing, have not been charged with any crimes. Pirozzolo's lawyer declined to comment for this story. And we gave you Matt Gaetz comment or his spokesman's comment. He's previously, by the way, denied that he ever paid for sex.

BLITZER: Evan Perez, with the late breaking news. Evan, thanks very much.

Let's discuss all of this with the state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida -- Palm Beach County, Florida David Aronberg is joining us right now.

[17:20:04]

Dave, thanks so much for joining us.

How do investigators determine if this was in fact what they call pay to play?

DAVID ARONBERG, STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA: Good evening, Wolf. It's a tough one because the honest services fraud statute which has been on the books for a while, it criminalizes pretty much anything that looks like a pay to play. It's a very broad statute if you deprive your constituents of your honor services.

The problem is in 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court limited that statute just the quid pro quo bribery and kickbacks. So investigators would have to show a direct quid pro quo and that's really hard to do, especially because Gaetz has been a longtime proponent of expanded medical marijuana laws. Now, if he were not, and he suddenly shifted his position after the Bahamas trip, then they would have something. But from what I've seen so far, I don't think the reports that I've seen move the needle.

BLITZER: How does this angle though of the investigation, Dave, actually fit into Congressman Gaetz's other legal woes?

ARONBERG: You know, the trip is salacious. And the Bahamas trip is also being used, perhaps as part of the investigation into a violation of the Mann Act, which is when you transport people across state lines for purposes of prostitution. But that too, is difficult to prove, because first you'd have to prove that Gaetz was involved in the transportation. And according to reports, he flew separately from the young women, it was Dr. Pirozzolo who transported them down to the Bahamas.

Plus, you would also need to prove a quid pro quo money in exchange for sex. But the alleged relationship here is one of these sugar daddy relationships, and that's a lot of gray area, that's hard to prove. And prosecutors hate gray area, because that's reasonable doubt, and reasonable doubt will get you an acquittal.

BLITZER: Yes. And meanwhile, the investigation continues.

The Florida State Attorney for Palm Beach County, Dave Aronberg, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

ARONBERG: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: Up next, we're getting some new developments in North Carolina where several sheriff's deputies are now on leave after the fatal police shooting of a black man.

And the race is on to find a missing Indonesian submarine before the crew runs out of oxygen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:45] BLITZER: We're following new developments right now in Elizabeth City, North Carolina where multiple sheriff's deputies have now been placed on leave or resigned following the fatal police shooting of a black man being served a warrant. CNN's Brian Todd is on the ground for us in Elizabeth City.

Brian, so where to things stand right now as far as releasing the body camera video of this incident?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the video is still not been released. And people like these folks behind me are getting increasingly frustrated by that. They just had a rally, kind of a mini rally in front of a city municipal building where city council members and the mayor came out and talked about their efforts to petition for the release of this video. You know, a request that has not been granted yet by the district attorney's office.

A short time ago, CNN caught up with a cousin of Andrew Brown who expressed her frustration after a meeting with the sheriff, where he said he couldn't release the video. And then we caught up with Sheriff Tommy Wooten, and he explained why they couldn't release the video. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF TOMMY WOOTEN, PASQUOTANK COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA: He does not want to hinder the investigation. And then, you know, immense situations like this, the magnitude of this situation, you -- it's very delicate. You want every piece of that video, every piece of evidence to be perfect. So, when the outcome come -- when it comes out, it's done right.

ZENA JACKSON, COUSIN OF ANDREW BROWN: Well, I'm frustrated. I'm not mad, I'm frustrated, because we're not getting answers. And we can't answer until the SBF (ph) finished their investigations.

So, and until then, so then, I guess they're telling us now, we call you out now. So, you all shut up until you get it. That's how I feel about it. You all shut up until the SBF finish with the investigation. So, until I do get information, I will be protesting daily until we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: And those protests, of course, are continuing. These people are going down to the waterfront in Elizabeth City to continue their protests that they've been doing every night for the last three nights.

We can also tell you some news made by the sheriff in our interview with them, Sheriff Wooten confirmed that seven sheriff's deputies have been placed on administrative leave as a result of the shooting incident. As a result of the shooting of Andrew Brown, seven had been placed on administrative leave.

When we asked him if that meant that seven deputies fired weapons, he said no. So, seven on leave does not necessarily mean that all seven fired their weapons.

They also said that three members of the sheriff's deputies' ranks have quit since the shooting on Wednesday. So, they're down 10 sheriff's deputies at this point tonight, Wolf. And he acknowledged, the sheriff acknowledged to us that they are under an enormous amount of stress at this moment.

BLITZER: Scene in North Carolina. Thank you very much.

We're also getting new information right now in the fatal police shooting of a teenage girl in Columbus Ohio. CNN's Athena Jones is joining us from the -- from the scene right now.

Athena, what does the new video show us?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. While there is new video from a neighbor's security camera across the street, it shows a new angle of the shooting that took place on Tuesday afternoon.

It's not as good as the initial video released by the Columbus Police Department a few hours after the shooting about five and a half hours after that shooting on Tuesday. Really in record time according to the interim chief of police.

[17:30:00]

But it does give you another angle showing when Officer Nicholas Reardon arrives on the scene, getting out of his car, and within seconds, firing four shots at Ma'Khia Bryant.

But what I like to make a point that's really in contrast what we're hearing from Brian Todd in North Carolina. Here in Columbus, the police have been -- have tried hard and worked swiftly to release as much video as they could as quickly as they could. According to the mayor and the interim police chief, this is important to make sure the public has as much information as possible as quickly as possible.

So within a few hours of the shooting on Tuesday night, they released the officer who shot Ma'Khia Bryant's body cam footage, both the flow down version and a normal version. The next day they released two more body camera videos from two other police who arrived on the scene. And also they released just yesterday, police dash cam footage taken a few moments after the incident. It doesn't show much. But the point here is that they have a commitment to transparency. And they're trying to show that by releasing all of these videos.

I should mention that we did hear from a spokesperson for Ma'Khia Bryant's family, who says that the family was contacted by the city of Columbus yesterday and told they could view Ma'Khia's body today, this afternoon a few hours ago. And we're told that funeral preparations and arrangements are being made. We could hear an announcement about that as soon as tomorrow. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Athena Jones, thank you very much. Let's get some more -- some analysis on all of this joining us now, the Miami Police Chief Art Acevedo and CNN law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey. Chief Acevedo, officials in Columbus they released the video within hours of that fatal shooting. But North Carolina law requires a court order to release video. What do you make of the contrast of how these two shootings are being handled?

CHIEF ART ACEVEDO, MIAMI POLICE: Well, unfortunately, you have to follow the law, no matter how transparent you want to be, you know, police chief, police department has to follow the law because if you don't, you can end up having consequences, an intend consequences and legal ramifications. And so I think the flow of information is important, the release information is important. But you've got to follow the process and when it's prescribed by law, you have no choice.

BLITZER: Yes, certainly, that's absolutely right. You know, Chief Ramsey, you're the police chief here in Washington D.C. We just learned that Derek Chauvin will be sentenced on June 16th, June 16th. And we saw with George Floyd's death how different the reality was from the initial police narrative that was released. How important is transparency of getting these videos out quickly?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, it's very important. You get them out as quickly as you can. And you have to be consistent. I mean, some videos are going to show that the police action was warranted, others won't. And so you have to be consistent.

But as Chief Acevedo said, you know, you have to follow the law and the law varies from state to state or county to county. But I do think that the quicker you get it out, the better off you are. I mean, we live in a world now where people expect transparency, they expect to be able to get information. It really does quiet things down, in my opinion.

And so I think what you saw in Columbus is a perfect example. And it doesn't mean you won't have protests with people who disagree with what the officer did. But the one thing they can't do is say that the department is trying to hide something because they've been very upfront very transparent.

BLITZER: Chief Acevedo, without this kind of bystander video that's obviously very available right now, some of these false police narratives withstand, right? How much does that worry you?

ACEVEDO: Well, you know what, look, you have to remember that we are under a lot of pressure to release information early on. And so that's what we always say, when we give a briefing after a critical incident that this is preliminary. But the truth of the matter is, the more videos we have, body worn cameras, you know, cell phone cameras, it's a good thing. It's a good thing, because keep us on our toes. It's going to bring transparency. And it's going to bring -- and it's going to provide a perspective that is free of bias to the community so people can make their own judgments.

But let's be real, you know, we have a situation with a little girl that was in the process of stabbing another individual. And, you know, from a police perspective, if that officer doesn't take action and the other innocent person dies, then we'll be having a different conversation. So there's a lot of things we need to talk about in this country. But one of things we all need to do is just slow down and actually withhold our final judgments until we get all the information.

BLITZER: Steve Ramsey, I assume you agree.

RAMSEY: I do agree because you have to judge these cases individually. And I realize right now with the current climate, there's a tendency to want to lump everything together. But, you know, the Bryant incident or shooting is not a Derek Chauvin. It's not a Wright. It's none of those. It's totally different. Circumstances are different. The officer was confronted with a terrible situation, where I mean, the threat to the life of the young lady that was pinned against the car was immediate.

[17:35:15]

I mean, this isn't a situation where you can even deescalate because she's standing there with a knife, and she's not really directly threatening anybody. This was a direct assault that was taking place before his eyes, had he not acted, then -- and the Chief is right, you'd be having a totally different conversation, because you'd still have a teenager seriously injured or perhaps even killed as a result of those actions.

And that's just one of those unfortunate situations that occasionally happen in policing. This isn't television, this is real. And cops on the scene, can't rewind videos, slow motion, they can't do any of that. This stuff is happening in real time. And decisions are made in real time.

BLITZER: Is there anything else, you know, Chief Acevedo, you're the head of the Major Cities Chiefs Association. Is there anything else that police officer could have done to prevent potentially the knife going into this other girl?

ACEVEDO: No, you know, unfortunately, and you know, this is preliminary based on what we've seen. It's in the public record. Unfortunately, folks were asking was, what any taser. But we all know in law enforcement that tasers are less lethal weapons. But when you see an immediate threat of serious body injury or death, which is what that knife, which is my understanding another little girl who already been stabbed, injured, if that taser doesn't work, which frequently they do not have the impact, the effect, we end up with a little girl seriously injured or dead.

And so, deadly force in that case was met with deadly force. And what we need to start talking about is not vilifying the police officer, I mean a split-second decision that I can almost assure you, he will be living with this for the rest of his life, we need to start thinking about why are we feeling these young people in the first place? Why don't we have proper mental, you know, mental health services, counseling, and all the other things in society that continues to fall short, which leads to too many of these deadly encounters in our community, not to mention the rest of the violent crime that we honestly are not talking about in this country. BLITZER: Let me let Chief Ramsey weigh in on that point. Go ahead, Chief.

RAMSEY: Well, there's not a whole lot to add, because he's got it absolutely right. And accountability on the part of police absolutely has to happen. And we do need to be held to a higher standard, that there's no question about that. But everybody needs to be held accountable. People that provide services, the people who were there at the scene before the police even arrived, need to be held accountable.

When you look at that video, and it goes, you know, kind of unnoticed for people just don't talk about it. The first young lady who got knocked to the ground by Bryant, there's a guy standing on the sidewalk, what does he do? He kicks her and then stops her once. I mean, come on, you know, at some point in time, we've got to be able to take responsibility for our own actions. It's not just about the police being held accountable, but there are other people need to be held accountable too. That was avoidable before the police even got there. It could have perhaps been avoided.

BLITZER: Chief Ramsey, Chief Acevedo, guys, thank you very, very much an important conversation. We'll continue to watch the story developed.

Just ahead, where does President Biden's ambitious agenda stand as he approaches the end of his first 100 days in office? We'll have more on that coming up in just a moment.

[17:38:32]

We'll also have a sneak peek of CNN's exclusive interview with the Vice President of the United States, Kamala Harris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As President Biden approaches the end of his first 100 days in office, his administration is pushing ahead with a very ambitious agenda on issues ranging from police reform to climate change. Let's discuss with our chief political correspondent Dana Bash. Dana, you had a chance to sit down with the Vice President Kamala Harris, for a wide-ranging exclusive interview during this really pivotal week. First of all, tell us about your conversation.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we talked about a whole bunch of things. But at the time, one of the most prominent issues, of course, was what happened this week with the verdict in the Derek Chauvin case. And more broadly, the fact that this is still a nation facing a reckoning with police aggression, and with racial inequities. And we talked about that, but specifically about her role in this issue inside the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I carry a great sense of responsibility for all of the young girls and boys of color, those who identify in some way because maybe no one expected something of them, but they expect a lot of themselves to do well and to do right and to do good. So, yes, I carry a great, great sense of responsibility, if not of the seriousness of the responsibility to be in this position and be a voice for those who have not traditionally been in the room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And we talked about a whole host of issues, including something that is on top of her portfolio right now, of course, Wolf, and that is immigration, specifically, the fact that she was tasked by the President to try to deal with the northern triangle countries to try to get to the root of -- or some of the root cause of the mass flow of migrants up into the southern border of the U.S.

BLITZER: Including all those children who are coming in. That's really --

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: -- really important. Dana, you're also, you've been very busy, you're moderating our CNN Town Hall tonight on the climate crisis. What can we expect to learn from this really timely special event?

[17:45:03]

BASH: A lot. Look, there is really nothing more important, right, than the climate crisis because it is at its heart an existential threat to humanity in every form of life on this planet. And what we've seen over the past couple of days, Wolf, is this administration hosting a global climate summit, which, you know, remarkably included Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping from China, and a whole host of world leaders, and then also business leaders here in America and across the Cabinet. And so there are a lot of ambitious goals set out by this administration.

But the questions tonight are about how are they going to achieve these goals? How are they going to actually move it from rhetoric and from, again, maybe lofty goals, ambitious goals, to making it happen? So a lot of discussion about how business is involved, and maybe most importantly, jobs. Because we know some of what has stopped, you know, presidents beforehand, especially President Obama from achieving some things is a lot of pushback about fossil fuel jobs, and how that is going to impact real people.

So there's a lot of work that still has to be done in transitioning those jobs, to clean energy jobs. We're going to talk a lot about that.

BLITZER: Yes, I'm really looking forward to it. Before I let you go, Dana, I want to get your reaction to this announcement from Caitlyn Jenner that she plans to run to replace California Governor Gavin Newsom into unexpected recall election later this year. What are you learning about the former Olympian and reality T.V. star's campaign?

BASH: She's been considering this for some time working with some people who were formerly in the Trump orbit, which may not be all that helpful in California. But the people who are working with her understand that California is quite different than the base that Donald Trump tends to go for. And even Caitlyn Jenner, even though she endorsed Donald Trump in 2016, pulled back from that, because of what she saw, with the way that he, from her perspective stomped on the rights of transgender Americans.

We don't know for sure that the recall is going to happen. It looks that way. But it's not official. But what is going to be interesting, Wolf, is that we have now obviously the most high profile transgender American in politics now that is going to happen potentially in California at a time when her party in states across the country are moving local and statewide bills and trying to pass laws against transgender Americans. So it really does exemplify the clash among and within the Republican Party.

BLITZER: Yes, it's a good point indeed. Dana, thank you very, very much. An important note to all of our viewers, Dana will return later tonight to moderate that special CNN Town Hall on the climate crisis. It starts at 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. And also be sure to tune in at the State of the Union Sunday morning for Dana's exclusive interview with Vice President Kamala Harris that's at 9:00 a.m. at 12 noon Eastern Sunday.

In Yemen meanwhile, fierce clashes in the internationally recognized governments last major northern stronghold could mark a turning point right now the deadly six year conflict, the oil rich city of Marib is now at the center of a military escalation by Iran backed Houthi rebels attempting to extend their control further east with a devastating campaign of drone and missile attacks on both Yemen and Saudi Arabia.

Saudi backed government forces say President Biden's decision to reverse former President Trump's widely criticized designation of the Houthis as a foreign terrorist organization, which came into force just days before the end of Trump's term in office has only embolden the rebel group. CNN International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, gained access to Marib's front line where the battle for control of the ancient desert city is raging on.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Saif Abalwi (ph) rides in pain. The 13-year-old hit by a Houthi missile in the Yemeni city of Marib. I can't breathe. I can't breathe, he cries.

Still recovering, a week later, he tells me what happened. We were playing football. The missile hit, my leg was injured. I couldn't breathe. One of my friends was dead, and the other looked like he was about to die.

In another ward the hospital's deputy director shows me Saif's (ph) friend.

[17:50:05]

And what's his condition?

Under sedation he is clinging to life.

He's in a bad way. How is it for you as a doctor to see so many injured children come in from all these rockets after all this time?

An ophthalmologist by training, he says he has no words to describe the suffering, no choice, but keep trying to help and hope that the fighting will end.

But attacks on Marib spiked after President Biden began pressuring all sides to end the war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The American administration holds the big responsibility for this crime, they removed the duties from the terrorism list, but there is no greater terrorists than the Houthis. They should support us.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Once a fabled desert oasis Marib is now war time sanctuary to more than 2 million people, gateway to much of Yemen's gas and oil wealth and is the internationally recognized governments, last major stronghold in northern Yemen.

(on camera): Marib is too important for the government to lose, its vital leverage in any future peace talks. What happens here now is pivotal to the future of the country.

(voice-over): In Marib, many internally displaced people, IDP camps, life is lived in the balance. Nine-year-old Dua (ph) has been throwing up. Her mother tells us Houthi attacks are making Dua (ph) very afraid. When we hear the missiles land close by, we're all scared, she says.

Around the city 10 camps have recently displaced a growing. Aid officials fear, Houthi offensive may force many here to flee again.

NAIMA TAHIR, SHELTER OFFICER, INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MIGRATION: Definitely, because they keep moving now, most -- we have a lot of IDP's who have been displaced for the second and third, some of the fourth time. So that definitely there will be a lot of other movements for people and then adding to the suffering.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): The Yemeni military trip to the front line reveals how precarious the city is.

(on camera): Soldiers in the trunk tell us that there's fighting around here every day for the past few months. The reason we're driving so fast. Well, that's because of the danger and the guy at the wheel, that's the Army Chief of Staff.

(voice-over): On the way he stops, greets tribal leaders, without Houthi fighters he can't hold the front line. And another stop, this time with his own troops. Both he and the information minister trying to raise morale. Promising troops, they'll get the back pay they ado. The front itself, a small dirt berm, dust rises from who the vehicles and shooting starts. GEN. SAGHEER BIN AZIZ, CHIEF OF STAFF, YEMENI NATIONAL ARMY: This car is for the enemy.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): His troops are losing ground, beaten Off strategic mountain heights Houthi is closer to Marib.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We have to move.

ROBERTSON (on camera): We're pulling back from the frontline. The commander felt it was just getting too dangerous. That exchange of gunfire was heating up. And it wasn't quite clear to him how it was going to play out.

(voice-over): We stop near a ramshackle gun in placement. Military hardware here is old, scattered, and scarce, nothing here that couldn't be overrun in a hurry. They're relying on Saudi coalition airstrikes, which have already caused more than 18.5 thousand Yemeni civilian deaths to hold the Houthi's back and feel weakened by Biden's decision to end American military support for it.

BIN AZIZ (through translator): America's decision hurt us. And we hope that the American administration will go back on their decision.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): A State Department spokesperson says President Biden has made ending the war in Yemen a top priority, adding we continue to take action against those who threaten the peace, security, and stability of Yemen.

But adding, U.S. efforts alone are not enough. We need a unified international effort particularly to press the Houthis to end their offensive on Marib.

(on camera): So far, Biden's Yemen policy is raising the stakes for this city whether or not they can produce political compromise necessary to make peace remains unclear.

[17:55:08]

Nick Robertson, CNN, Marib, Yemen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Nic, thank you very, very much. This programming note to our viewers, be sure to join us here in the Situation Room next week and indeed every week as we launch a new start time, I'll be here in the Situation Room, weekday 6:00 p.m. Eastern will bring you all the day's top story, 6:00 p.m. Eastern, our new start time starting on Monday.

Meanwhile, there's more breaking news coming up in the Situation Room. In our next hour, a key first step toward lifting the pause on the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine. We're learning new details of the vote by a CDC advisory panel.

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