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The Situation Room

Police Reform; Matt Gaetz Probe; CDC Recommends Lifting Pause on J&J Vaccine; Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) is Interviewed on Negotiations on Biden's Infrastructure Plan; Crews Race to Find Missing Submarine Before It Runs Out of Oxygen; Tensions High over U.S. Policing after New Run of Fatal Shootings; Biden Pushing Ahead with Ambitious Agenda Ahead of Speech to Congress, 100 Days Milestone Next Week. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 23, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:25]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

We're following breaking news. CDC advisers just recommended lifting the pause on the Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine, the panel determining the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks of rare blood clots.

Also, tonight, there's new dispatch audio from that fatal police shooting of a black man in North Carolina, and it indicates he was shot in the back. Seven deputies now have been placed on administrative leave as a result of the shooting. Three others have left the department.

We're learning also more about the federal investigation of Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida. Sources tell CNN authorities are now looking into whether a 2018 trip to the Bahamas was part of an orchestrated effort to illegally influence Gaetz on the issue of medical marijuana.

Let's start our coverage this hour with CNN's Alexandra Field. She got more on the breaking news.

Alexandra, walk us through the new recommendation on the J&J vaccine and what happens next.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf.

So, really, this committee that was reviewing the vaccine had a whole host of options in front of it. They could have chosen not to recommend any further use of the vaccine, or they could have limited its uses.

But essentially, what they have done instead is recommend the widest distribution possible. The CDC and the FDA will both have to sign off before you can see shots going back into arms. But every indication is, they will move quickly to do that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motion to be voted upon is the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine.

FIELD (voice-over): A CDC advisory committee voting to resume use of Johnson & Johnson's single-shot vaccine for people aged 18 and up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, the vote is 10 in favor, four opposed, and one abstention. The motion carries.

FIELD: The committee did not recommend new restrictions based on age or gender. But the vaccine will be updated with a new label indicating that women under the age of 50 should be aware of the risk of blood clots.

The recommendations coming 10 days after a decision to pause use of J&J. Regulators considered evidence of 15 cases of rare and severe blood clots reported among women, including three deaths. That's out of more than eight million people who got the shot in the U.S. Health experts stress the decision to resume use comes with added safety benefits.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: I think it is important to point out that this is a treatable condition if you recognize it right away. It's been good to have this pause, is to get everybody apprised of that, so that all physicians know that this is something to watch out for.

FIELD: Just as the country's third vaccine will soon return to the market, an even bigger push to once again get more shots in arms, the average daily number now slipping below three million following the mid-April high, 3.4 million daily shots.

JEFF ZIENTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We have gotten vaccinations to the most at risk and those most eager to get vaccinated as quickly as possible. We know reaching other populations will take time and focus.

FIELD: That effort could get a boost soon, vaccine eligibility now considered likely to expand to children under the age of 16 in a matter of weeks.

DR. ROBERT FRENCK, CINCINNATI CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: I'm quite hopeful that, even by May, that we would have a vaccine available for 12 and above.

FIELD: Following a review of data collected from a large study of thousands of pregnant women, the CDC issuing guidance that now goes a step further than it did before.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: CDC recommends that pregnant people receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

(END VIDEOTAPE) FIELD: And, Wolf, a Johnson & Johnson official who addressed the committee defended the vaccine earlier today, calling it critical in the fight against COVID, not just in the United States, but really around the world, going on to cite the vaccine's efficacy in protecting against a number of variants, and also citing the ease of distribution, given the fact that this is a one-shot vaccine -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, that's really important.

Alexandra Field in New York, thank you very much.

Let's bring in CNN's chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, the Biden administration is very eager for the J&J shots to resume, right?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they were, because they really wanted to fold this into their plans to get everyone a vaccine at least available to them by the end of May. Of course, that's been one of the big plans they have been talking about, not just having it accessible, but actually being able to get in line and get it.

And because this vaccine is so much easier, it can be stored at a warmer temperature and it's only one shot, this was something that they were really hopeful for. But, of course, we have seen a lot of issues with the holdup with J&J. This pause was just one more step.

[18:05:01]

But what they were hoping is that what this would do is actually encourage more people to get vaccinated by showing that they are looking out for any causes here, any issues here. And they say that they believe that they're -- what they have been looking at, these numbers, over the last few weeks is that this will actually help build vaccine confidence.

But I think there are still a lot of questions that remain about what it looks like when the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is back in use. And, of course, that hasn't happened yet. Now that this panel has voted to recommend resuming the use of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, Wolf, it goes to the CDC director, who now has to make that decision about approving this recommendation.

We're told that that decision is with the CDC. That's going to be something they are focusing on tonight. So, you could potentially start to see people getting the Johnson & Johnson vaccine as soon as tomorrow, Wolf, if this goes in this direction, because we should note that, right now, states, tribes and territories and these federal channels that have been actually getting the vaccines to people, they're sitting on about over nine million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

So, they have it. It's ready to them. It's not like they have to wait on it to be shipped out from the federal government, as you have seen in some earlier cases. And so, once this goes through the CDC, if they make that recommendation, Wolf, we could very soon be seeing people using the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

I think the White House is just waiting to see what the reaction when it's back, is and whether people still feel good about using it, now that the CDC has walked -- and this panel has walked through these steps and they obviously feel good about recommending the use of it.

BLITZER: Yes.

All right, Kaitlan, thank you very much, Kaitlan Collins over at the White House.

Let's discuss with Dr. Paul Offit. He's a member of the FDA vaccines advisory committee. He's also director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

Dr. Offit, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

And I remember you told me a few days ago the CDC board's previous lack of a decision, from your perspective, was a mistake. Did they make the right call today?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Yes.

I thought, today, was the CDC at its best. It was a clinic in how to understand relative risk. I mean, they went through, here's the risk of having a severe blood clot before there ever was a pandemic or there ever was this vaccine. Here's the risk of having a severe blood clot from the vaccine. Here's the risk of having a severe blood clot from getting this disease.

Here's the risk even in young women of dying from this virus, being hospitalized from this virus. Here's why it is that this vaccine, this single-dose vaccine, has certain advantages. And I thought it was just superb. And you can understand how people came to the conclusion to reaffirm their original recommendation to give this vaccine to everyone over 18 years of age who would qualify.

So, I think -- I think they did the right thing, and they did it quickly.

BLITZER: In addition to the updated label that they're recommending, do you think a stricter warning associated with this vaccine would be beneficial, particularly for women under the age of 50, who apparently are at greater risk for what is still an extremely rare reaction, these blood clots in the brain?

OFFIT: I think the CDC has made a commitment to producing educational materials, little pamphlets that would go along with this vaccine. So, for women under 50 years of age, we will certainly know about this risk.

But, again, it's an extremely rare risk. And I think that also has to be part of the calculation. I think what we don't tend to consider is the fact that this virus also causes so-called inflammation of the blood clot -- of the bloodstream, specifically, the vessels, vasculitis, which can cause blood clots at a rate greater than that, certainly much greater than that that's caused by the vaccine.

BLITZER: What do you say to those who remain hesitant about getting a coronavirus vaccine, aren't sure what to make of today's news?

OFFIT: Well, I think they should be reassured that the CDC carefully considers all of these data, so that the public can get the best information possible.

Anybody from the public could have watched today's meeting and would have learned a lot about how to think about risk, I mean, even, for example, if you take the risk of a severe blood clot in a young woman, which is probably the highest risk, it's no greater than one in 80,000.

So, if you're in -- at University of Michigan Stadium, and you're sitting there among 80,000 people, and a helicopter drops out a ping- pong ball, what's your chance of being hit by -- one person hit by that ping-pong ball? I think it would help to understand sort of relative risk, whereas the virus is common.

This is a common disease, which causes inflammation of blood vessels, so-called vasculitis, which can cause these same sorts of symptoms at a greater rate than occurs with the vaccine.

BLITZER: So, you would recommend -- if one of your patients comes to you and says, Doctor, I can get the J&J vaccine, what would you say?

OFFIT: I would inform them about the risk and tell them that I think that this is an excellent vaccine, but they need to understand that this is a rare, but real risk.

And, also, there was another thing that was said today at the committee that should have bothered people a little bit, which is at least 3 percent of this country has only gotten one dose of the mRNA vaccine.

And the person who was the head of the committee said that, in his state, Arkansas, that was 11 percent. That's a problem. One dose of mRNA vaccine is not enough. That's a two-dose vaccine. You're much better off getting one dose of the J&J vaccine than only one dose of the mRNA vaccine.

And that worries me, actually. It's not just that there's certain people in the population who benefit from a one-dose vaccine, people -- a transient population, a homebound population. I mean, that group benefits from a one-dose vaccine.

[18:10:13]

But it just worries me that there are some people that don't ever come back for that second dose of mRNA vaccine, which puts them at risk for this disease, because one dose does not provide complete and long- lasting immunity of the mRNA vaccine.

BLITZER: Yes, you do need two doses for the Moderna and the Pfizer vaccines. And it's important to get both does. You just get one, you're not going to be fully, fully protected.

Separately, the CDC director now says, Dr. Offit, that the agency is officially recommending that pregnant women get the coronavirus vaccine. What led to this decision?

OFFIT: Well, so, more than 80,000 pregnant women have now received this vaccine. So, there was a study recently done by the CDC where they looked at pregnant women who got the vaccine, compared them to pregnant women who didn't get the vaccine -- this was thousands of pregnant women -- and found that both maternal complications or complications with the now hundreds of babies that have been born was no different in someone who was pregnant who got the vaccine, as compared to someone who was pregnant that didn't get the vaccine.

And we know that women who are pregnant who were infected with this virus, the COVID virus, that they are 2.5 to three times more likely to be in the intensive care unit or to die from this virus than a woman who is of the same age, but not pregnant. So, clearly, it's a benefit to the pregnant woman, and now we know that it's safe in pregnant women.

BLITZER: Dr. Offit, as usual, thanks so much for joining us. We always appreciate your being here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

OFFIT: Thank you.

BLITZER: Just ahead: An island getaway, escorts, and medical marijuana, we're going to tell you how those figures into the federal investigation we're now learning about of Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida.

And we will break down new developments in the deadly police shootings of black Americans, including the new revelations on a new dispatch audio just released from North Carolina.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:47]

BLITZER: Tonight: new details on a federal investigation of Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida involving an island getaway with several young women.

Let's go to our senior justice correspondent, Evan Perez. He has been digging into all of this.

Evan, tell our viewers what you're learning.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we know about the federal sex trafficking investigation of Congressman Gaetz.

And one of the things that prosecutors are looking into is whether Gaetz took gifts, including travel and paid escorts, in exchange for political favors. Sources tell us that the Justice Department is scrutinizing this 2018 trip to the Bahamas that involves Gaetz and several young women, specifically looking at whether the getaway was part of an orchestrated effort to illegally influence the congressman on medical marijuana to help the medical marijuana industry.

CNN has previously reported that Gaetz is under investigation for engaging in a relationship with a girl who was 17 at the time, and that Gaetz attended parties in Orlando with other prominent Republicans that involved women, drugs and sex for money.

CNN has learned that investigators already have one key witness who is cooperating, Joel Greenberg. He is the former Seminole County tax commissioner down there in Florida who is a close friend of Gaetz and who attended some of these parties.

Now, he was indicted last year on multiple federal charges, including sex trafficking, and he's expected to plead guilty in the coming weeks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What are you learning, Evan, about Gaetz's relationship with a Florida doctor who's actually involved in the medical marijuana industry?

PEREZ: Well, yes, so Gaetz has this long history of advocating for medical marijuana. He has introduced several pieces of legislation, both at the state and federal level, looking to loosen the laws regulating marijuana.

Now, according to reports, Dr. Jason Pirozzolo is a Florida doctor who founded a medical marijuana advocacy group that accompanied Gaetz on this 2018 trip to the Bahamas. Gaetz has referred to Pirozzolo as one of his best friends. The pair have repeatedly intersected over -- on the issue of medical marijuana as far back as 2014, when Gaetz at the time was a state representative in Florida, and he introduced medical marijuana legislation two weeks after vacationing with in Pirozzolo in the Florida Keys.

Now, on the week after the legislation passed, Pirozzolo launched a medical marijuana consulting company. In April 2018, when Gaetz introduced the medical cannabis research legislation, a source tells CNN that the congressman hand-delivered a fully written draft of the bill to his staff, which overlapped significantly with the agenda that Dr. Pirozzolo's group had been pushing.

Neither Gaetz nor Pirozzolo have been accused by the Justice Department of wrongdoing or have been charged with a crime. Pirozzolo's lawyer declined to comment for this story.

Gaetz's spokesman tells us that Gaetz is a longtime policy expert on this issue, and that he passed legislation this as far back as 2013. And he has -- by the way, he has previously denied that he ever paid for sex -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Evan Perez reporting for us.

Evan, thanks very much.

I want to bring in CNN senior legal analyst the former U.S. attorney Preet Bharara.

Preet, thanks so much for joining us.

It's a federal investigation. What does an investigation like this look like to determine if this was what they call pay-to-play?

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, you used the English phrase pay-to-play. I will use the Latin quid pro quo that we have heard a lot about in recent years.

And, essentially, what you have to prove is, there was a quid, there was something of value provided to someone else, someone in office, like Matt Gaetz in this example, and that he took official action, the quo.

And then you have to show beyond that -- and this is the toughest part of the equation -- that the second was in exchange for the first, or vice versa. So, here, investigators are going to look at whether or not there were actually things of value that were provided, hotel rooms, sex workers, the like.

And I don't know how much evidence there is of that. And then you're also going to have to show that Matt Gaetz performed official action, whether that's voting in a particular way or introducing bills that were desired by the people who were paying the money, giving the things of value.

[18:20:07]

There's one bit of reporting here that I think is significant. And that is that he introduced, Matt Gaetz introduced legislation that reportedly very much looked like what the advocates for the legislation wanted.

Now, there's nothing necessarily wrong without. People lobby all the time. But if it was done in exchange for the thing of value, then you have a problem. They're going to want to talk to all the people who were involved on the trips. They're going to want to talk to people who have some knowledge of Matt Gaetz's state of mind, things he might have said.

And I think it's very important for them to get someone to cooperate in connection with that investigation.

BLITZER: As you know, Preet, this is just one aspect of the federal investigation into Congressman Gaetz. Where do you think he faces potentially the most legal exposure?

BHARARA: So, that's hard to say, because we don't know that much. And we just have media reports. And we don't have things that have happened in court yet, to my knowledge.

All the things we're talking about, the federal corruption charge for a quid pro quo activity, that's very serious. The sex trafficking is very serious. The way I look at it at this point, in terms of risk to him, is, what's the most likely charge based on what evidence the government has? And the thing that we do know is that Joel Greenberg has been charged with, I think, 33 counts federally, that he's under the gun, that he's cooperating with authorities. We don't have a plea yet. But anything that involves Joel Greenberg, who I believe and expect will be testifying against Matt Gaetz, providing substantial assistance against Matt Gaetz, that that's principally the sex trafficking.

And that's where I think he has the most liability. It's not fully clear to me from this reporting how much Mr. Greenberg has to do with or has knowledge about this potential quid pro quo with respect to medical marijuana. But if he has knowledge there, then there's exposure there too.

I think a key thing that we need to look at and await some information on is whether or not this doctor that Evan was talking about gets charged or believes he's going to get charged and flips on Matt Gaetz.

BLITZER: This federal investigation, in the meantime, continues.

Preet, as usual, thank you very much.

BHARARA: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up: Former police officer Derek Chauvin has a sentencing day now set following his murder conviction in the death of George Floyd.

Plus: the urgent search for a missing submarine. Will rescuers be able to find it before it runs out of oxygen?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:26:52]

BLITZER: We're following new developments in the fatal police shootings of black Americans.

In Minneapolis, former Officer Derek Chauvin's sentencing date was just set for June 16. He faces up to 40 years in prison after his conviction in the murder of George Floyd.

Our justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider, is joining us now. She has more on policing in America.

Jessica, the Justice Department is investigating the police practices in Minneapolis.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They are, Wolf.

And this debate over proper police training, it's intensifying. And I have just learned that Attorney General Merrick Garland, he actually met with more than a dozen police officials and leaders at the Justice Department, and virtually, today. I'm told this was a broad discussion about what departments across the country need and even possible plans for police reform, as some key and big departments around this country, they're already changing their tactics. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the knife.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Camden, New Jersey, 2015, county police responding to a call about a man pulling a steak knife inside a fast food restaurant. Once he walks outside, several officers form a perimeter around him and try to talk them down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, drop the knife, or I will Tase you.

SCHNEIDER: They all walk for several blocks, clearing traffic and people, until police do deploy a Taser and officers move in to arrest him unharmed.

CAPT. KEVIN LUTZ, CAMDEN COUNTY, NEW JERSEY, POLICE: We look at that video as a shining example of the tangible result of the training that we have given our officers.

SCHNEIDER (on camera): Officers are crediting your ICAT training program was really transforming their departments. How do you respond to that?

CHUCK WEXLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, POLICE EXECUTIVE RESEARCH FORUM: Well, first of all, it's those police officers that taught us a lot, because when we watched what they did, they gave us a lot of ideas.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Chuck Wexler is the executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum. And he developed ICAT, Integrating Communications, Assessment, and Tactics.

Put plainly, the training encourages officers to create distance and buy time by speaking with the subject, rather than shouting commands while pointing a gun.

(on camera): Are officers skeptical when you implement this training?

WEXLER: Oh, yes. When we first implemented this training, the first thing cops would say is, you're going to get cops hurt.

What's happened is, cops haven't gotten hurt. People's lives have been saved. And careers have been saved too.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Camden County police Captain Kevin Lutz credits ICAT with changing the way his officers think and respond.

LUTZ: We teach them to recognize threat levels, to differentiate between a possible threat and an imminent threat and to -- at the end of the day, the most important thing is to place a tremendous value on the sanctity of life.

And we believe that our community has responded in a way that has really helped us drive down violence.

WEXLER: At the Washington State Police Academy, they too are emphasizing de-escalation over force, moving away from military-style training.

SUE RAHR, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WASHINGTON STATE CRIMINAL JUSTICE TRAINING COMMISSION: That's moving away from the military model of training police officers like you train soldiers. The mission is different. We train soldiers to conquer. We train police officers to protect and to keep peace.

SCHNEIDER (on camera): Was military-style training used too often prior to this other training?

[18:30:04]

WEXLER: Well, I think most of academies have a kind of paramilitary structure. And we look at that today. We say, are you yelling recruits?

SCHNEIDER: Does this work in every situation, this de-escalation idea?

WEXLER: Good question. Sometimes there are situations that are hard to deescalate. Sometimes they happen so quickly that an officer just simply has to (INAUDIBLE).

SCHNEIDER: Wexler says more than 600 agencies around the country have implemented ICAT training, including in Madison, Wisconsin, where Police Chief Shon Barnes says they emphasize not only de-escalation but also focus on mental health.

CHIEF SHON BARNES, MADISON POLICE: I think we need to look not only at a first responder model but a second responder model. We're looking at things in our police department where we'll have mental health officers, mental health professionals who go on these crisis calls.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER (on camera): So this is a change in the way departments are thinking about their training. And police officials, like Chief Barnes and Captain Lutz in Camden, they say this training not only works but they think it's helping them rebuild trust in their communities. Captain Lutz told CNN this morning there are plans to soon implement this ICAT training, Wolf, statewide in New Jersey.

BLITZER: Its sounds like a really good idea. All right, Jessica, thank you very much.

Let's bring in an official who's on the front lines in Columbus, Ohio, where a 16-year-old African-American girl wielding a knife was shot and killed by police. Joining us now, the director of Public Safety for Columbus, Ned Pettus Jr. Director Pettus, thank you for joining us.

Let me get some of your reaction to some of the de-escalation tactics that were just highlighted in that reported. Do you believe different training could help prevent another tragedy after the death of the 16- year-old Ma'khia Bryant in your city?

NED PETTUS JR., DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY, COLUMBUS, OHIO: It is our hope that these different approaches to training will help and we have implemented some of those that were discussed where also maybe they're under a different name or different acronym, but we're also implementing an alternative response initiative where we partner a police officer with a fire paramedic and a social worker and they actually determine what resources actually need to be dispatched on emergencies that might involve mental health.

BLITZER: I want you to watch and listen to Ma'khia Bryant's mother, what she had to say about this loss. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA BRYANT, MA'KHIA BRYANT'S MOTHER: I want the killing to stop. I've always had sympathy for the Breonna Taylor story and her family and her friends and her situation. And now I know what it feels like to lose a child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: How emotional is it to hear that?

PETTUS: It's very emotional. Wolf, I have to tell you here in Columbia, Ohio, the black community is emotionally exhausted. There has been one incident after another either locally here or nationally. And we have to come together to help ease the pain, and we're all grieving here. We feel for Ma'khia Bryant's family and we're praying for them.

I've heard from black people in the community in Columbus, and many of them say they're not even able to watch the video. It's just too traumatic.

BLITZER: It is traumatic. You see it. I've seen it now several times. I'm sure you have as well.

The shooting happened, by the way, just before the guilty verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial in Minneapolis. I want you to elaborate. How do you support the community right now at this very sensitive moment?

PETTUS: The mayor and I have been coordinating with, communicating, both virtually and in person with groups from the community. We had a lengthy virtual meeting with a clergy group earlier today. We have leaders from the community who are reaching out to us, asking how can they help. We will be speaking with youth athletic leaders at 7:00 P.M. on Monday.

It is inspiring how many leaders from the community, specifically from the black community, want to know how they can help with this situation that we're facing in Columbus.

[18:35:03]

BLITZER: Because I know you are a lifelong resident of Columbus, what do you think it will take for the city to address the broader issue of police shootings, other inequalities that we know are going on? PETTUS: Well, we know that one important variable will involve improving diversity. Our division of police has approximately 9 percent African-American representation. Our population is approximately 30 percent African-American.

We need to do better at attracting women and minorities to the Columbus division of police. We're working on it. Our mayor has funded a cadet program in partnership with our Columbus City School System. And we noticed our hiring patterns and trends, and many officers from smaller suburban and township departments apply.

And so we're working with the next generation in our community to help prepare them for careers in law enforcement, but we need the tragedies to stop. It's already been mentioned on your program a variety of the needs in the black community, mental health, socioeconomic issues that the black community needs help with. It's just been a really, really trying year.

BLITZER: Well, good luck to you, good luck to everyone in Columbus, and not just in Columbus, but all over the country. Everyone is dealing with this problem right now. Ned Pettus Jr., thanks so much for joining us.

PETTUS: Thank you. It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

BLITZER: Thank you. It's really important.

Just ahead, we're getting new reaction right now to President Biden's climate plan and other big agenda items as he gets closer to his first address to Congress and his 100th day in office. I'll speak live with Senator Sanders. He's standing by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: Tonight, President Biden is pushing ahead with his very ambitious agenda, including a new climate plan as he heads into a critical week. He'll deliver his first presidential address to a joint session of Congress next Wednesday night just before he hits his 100th day in office.

Let's discuss this and more. Senator Bernie Sanders is joining us. He's the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

As you know, President Biden is pledging to cut carbon emissions by more than 50 percent, below 2005 levels by 2030. Have you heard enough, though right now? Have you heard enough specifics from him on how we get there?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, I think we're off to a good start. We're going to need a whole lot of discussion to fill in the details. But here is the bottom line. If we do not act extraordinarily aggressively, not only ourselves, but the entire world, what we are talking about is an unprecedented crisis facing the entire planet. We're talking about more drought, more floods, more extreme weather disturbances, more disease.

And today a major, major insurance company, Swiss Re, declared that there would be a 14 percent reduction in global output, economic output by 2050. That's a $23 trillion reduction in global output as a result of climate change.

So, Wolf, this is a moment in which we have got to act aggressively, lead the world, transform our energy system away from fossil fuel to energy efficiency. And when we do that, as the president indicated, we can create millions of good-paying jobs.

BLITZER: The president is, in fact, making the case that action on climate change will create jobs, boost the economy. But how many of your Republican Senate colleagues, do you think, are willing to be persuaded on this? Because I suspect you need 60 votes to get it passed in the Senate, you can't just do it with 51.

SANDERS: Well, that's not quite accurate. There is a process called reconciliation. And if my Republican colleagues refuse to do what the scientific community tells us we must do, what the overwhelming majority of the Americans want to do, then we've got to identity alone. I hope we will have Republican support.

But we are dealing, Wolf, with the future of this planet, with a kind of life that our kids and grandchildren are going to live. We're talking about massive economic decline if we do not act now. But on the other hand, we're talking about creating millions of good jobs if we do act appropriately. So this is an existential threat.

And, by the way, I happen to believe that if we lead the world, we can bring China and Russia and India and countries all over the world who have exactly the same problems, China in particular is already suffering deeply from climate change. This is an opportunity to bring the world together instead of fighting wars. Let's go to war against climate change. Let's create tens of millions of jobs globally. That's the challenge we face. And for the future of this planet, we've got to succeed.

BLITZER: Yes. I was encouraged that both China and Russia participated in this two-day virtual summit.

[18:45:02]

That was encouraging. Let's see where it goes from here.

As you know, Senator, sources are telling us that President Biden may hike taxes on wealthy Americans to pay for the next items on his agenda.

I want to put up on the screen some of the numbers.

Is this just a starting point in the negotiations? Do you expect the end result potentially to be lower capital gains taxes going from 20 percent to 39.6 percent for people making more than a million dollars a year, top marginal income tax rates for households making $400,000 plus a year, going from 37 percent to 39.6 percent? SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, Wolf, as you have heard me say for

many, many years now, I do not stay up nights worrying about the 1 percent and the billionaire class.

What we are looking at in America right now is more income and wealth inequality than we have had since the 1920s. You look at two people owning more wealth than the bottom 40 percent of the American people. You're looking at the very, very rich becoming phenomenally richer while working class families are struggling.

So, I do believe it is absolutely appropriate to demand that the wealthy and large corporations start paying their fair share of taxes so we can rebuild our infrastructure, so we can address climate change, education, health care and benefit working families all over this country.

BLITZER: When it comes to the infrastructure proposal that the president has put forward, more than $2 trillion infrastructure and jobs, Republicans are countering right now with their own slimmed-down $600 billion plan. The White House called this a good faith effort, agreed it's a legitimate starting point for conversations.

What's your reaction to that?

SANDERS: The White House is nicer and more generous than I am.

In fact, it is not even $600 billion, because they are reusing money that has already been appropriated. And also in terms of how do you fund it, we have just talked about, I believe, you've got to ask the wealthy and large corporations, many of whom pay zero in federal income taxes, you've got to ask them to start paying their fair share of taxes, not the middle class or working families of this country.

The effective tax rate today for working families is higher than it is for billionaires. That's crazy. So what the Republicans have come up with, to my mind, is given the enormity of the crisis, a totally inadequate package and they want to fund it in an unfair and regressive way.

BLITZER: Are you upbeat? Are you optimistic that what you want is going to get done?

SANDERS: I think this is what the overwhelming majority of the American people want, including many Republicans. And what is very interesting to me, Wolf, is, you know, Republicans talk about bipartisanship. I believe in that.

And yet you do have bipartisanship at the grassroots level. Republicans understand we've got to rebuild infrastructure, we have to deal with climate change, we have to create millions of jobs. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, their representatives in the Congress do not see the world the way ordinary Republicans and Democrats do.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens.

Senator Bernie Sanders, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

SANDERS: Thank you.

BLITZER: And to our viewers, be sure to watch CNN's town hall on the climate crisis later tonight, featuring top members of the White House climate team. Dana Bash moderates. It airs 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.

Coming up, the search for a missing submarine, now a race against time as its supply of oxygen dwindles.

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BLITZER: We're following a truly desperate race against the clock right now. Crews are hunting for a missing naval submarine before it runs out of oxygen for the 53 people on board.

I want to bring in our senior international correspondent Ivan Watson. He's in Hong Kong. He's monitoring the search of the submarine off the coast of Bali.

Ivan, is time running out to find the crew alive?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sadly, if judging by what the Indonesian military have said. There's a 72-hour window of air for the submarine after it was last seen diving in the predawn hours on Wednesday, and here in Asia, it is Saturday morning. It's been more than 72 hours that the sub had been missing, though a spokesperson for the Indonesian navy is telling people to remain optimistic.

The search is involving basically an armada here, Wolf, of at least 21 ships from the Indonesia navy operating in the waters off the northern coast of the Indonesian island of Bali. They are joined by ships from the navies of Australia, India, Singapore, Malaysia.

The U.S. says it has sent a P8 Poseidon plane to help. And defense officials tell CNN that there are more C-17s that are expected to leave soon with equipment to help with the search.

Now, the submarine is called the Nanggala, and it was transiting through the Bali straits. It was conducting torpedo exercises, it went dark after it dove before dawn on Wednesday firing torpedoes as part of these exercises.

There are 53 people crew, crew members on board that vessel. And I've spoken to a formal admiral who used to operate on this very submarine, who says that normally, it would come up for air every six to eight hours and to recharge its batteries.

[18:55:06]

That individual is very worried about the fate of this submarine. The family members are unsure, conducting a desperate vigil trying to

hear more from their loved ones. The Indonesian president is asking everybody to pray for their safety -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yeah, certainly. There are 53 individuals on that submarine. Let's hope and pray for the best.

Ivan, thank you very, very much.

Still ahead, a successful lift off marks a new first in space.

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BLITZER: Finally, be sure to join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM next week and every week as we launch a new start time. I will be here 6:00 p.m. Eastern weeknights to bring you all the day's top stories.

Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.