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Biden Camp Publicly Digs Amid Escalating Calls For Pres To Drop Out; Source: Biden "Seething" At Pelosi After One Of Her Closest Allies Publicly Urges Biden To Step Aside; Source: House Dem Leader Not Discouraging Calls For Biden To Exit; Harris Doesn't Address Questions About Biden Candidacy On Donor Call; Rep. Jake Auchincloss, (D-MA), Is Interviewed About Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Presidential Race; Democrats In "Doom Loop" As Pressure Builds On Biden To Exit Race; WH Dr.: Biden's COVID Symptoms Have "Improved Meaningfully"; Global Tech Outage Disrupts Airlines, Banks, Hospitals, 911 Services. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 19, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Democratic governor Jared Polis, West Virginia Independent Senator Joe Manchin and South Carolina Democratic Representative James Clyburn. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern.

And then Sunday night, "America's Bloody History with Political Violence" in the wake of the assassination attempt on Donald Trump. It is the subject of the whole story with Anderson Cooper. That's Sunday night at 10:00 Eastern.

I'm Pamela Brown. I will see you back at Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time. The news continues on CNN now with Wolf Blitzer in the Situation Room. Have a great weekend.

[17:00:37]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now breaking news, the pressure on President Biden to drop out of the presidential race intensifies by the hour, with top Democrats feeling caught in what some are calling a doom loop. This as Donald Trump is getting ready to take his convention show on the road with this first campaign rally since the attempt on his life.

Also tonight, a Russian court sentences American journalist Evan Gershkovich to 16 years in prison, on espionage charges that his allies in the United States call a sham. And a massive global tech outage creates chaos around the world, disrupting air travel, healthcare, banks, media outlets and more.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the Situation Room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: Let's get right to the breaking news on the state of the Biden campaign as some Democrats suggest the calls for the President to end his reelection bid may be nearing a critical mass. CNN's Senior White House correspondent MJ Lee is following all these developments for us.

MJ, publicly, the campaign is clearly digging in.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. We have had some three weeks of hand wringing and real panic setting in across the Democratic Party. But the Biden campaign today making clear that they are defiant in those calls, the growing calls for the President to drop out. The President himself who has been isolating and Rehoboth as he is recovering from COVID so that he is looking forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week. But as we saw today, those calls for the president publicly to drop out have only been growing. We now know of more than 38 congressional Democrats who have said publicly that he needs to drop out of the 2024 campaign. And one source telling CNN we are just learning that the President is said to be seething at the role that House Speaker, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has played in encouraging members to be vocal about their concerns. But as we saw from the campaign chair, Jen O'Malley Dillon earlier today, she is being unequivocal about the President's future. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN O'MALLEY DILLON, BIDEN CAMPAIGN CHAIR: Look, absolutely the presidents in this race. Joe Biden is more committed than ever to beat Donald Trump. And we believe on this campaign. We are built for the close election that we're in and we see the path forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: And a couple of things, Wolf, that happen behind closed doors today that were worth mentioning, we know that Jen O'Malley Dillon held a call with all of her staff members. And it was described to us as being a pep talk where she at one point focused on the importance of voter outreach. We are told that she said when you give me polls, I am going to give you direct voter contacts. And she also told her staff that people across the country are not watching cable news.

We are also learning that Vice President Kamala Harris, at the last minute joined a call with top donors. And this also was described as a pep talk of sorts, and that she was forward looking and didn't address directly questions swirling around about the President's political future. And that she is said to have told donors we are going to win this election. We are going to win. Wolf

BLITZER: MJ Lee reporting for us. MJ, thank you very much.

Now to the Trump campaign. The former president is heading to Michigan tomorrow with his new running mate, Senator J.D. Vance. It's their first joint campaign appearance since Vance made his debut at the Republican National Convention. CNN's Kristen Holmes is in Grand Rapids, Michigan for us just ahead of that Trump rally.

Kristen, what's expected at the rally tomorrow?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, one of the things we're looking for obviously, is what the messaging is going to be coming from both of them but also what the chemistry between the two looks like. We actually don't know what a Trump-Vance campaign looks like. For basically the last two years Donald Trump has been running alone. Now we are told he is bringing on J.D. Vance and that he has a lot of chemistry that's why he chose J.D. Vance or at least one of the reasons why he brought him on to the ticket. Now we will see what an actual campaign with the two of them at the top of ticket looks like.

Now the other thing we are looking at is what the security is going to be. We have brand new reporting that the Secret Service is really reassessing what these right rallies look like in particular starting with tomorrow and Butler, Pennsylvania because, again, it is not just the -- excuse me, tomorrow in Grand Rapids, Michigan where we are here after what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, because remember, it's not just the former president who's going to be here, it is also vice presidential nominee, J.D. Vance. They are talking about increasing security presence all around. More officers, agents, more local law enforcement as well. They have gotten requests from the area to bring in 50 or 60 extra officers.

[17:05:29]

We know they're going to be closing the streets all around the venue, something that is not always done at these rallies. The other thing they're looking at is potentially no more of these big field rallies like what we saw in Butler, Pennsylvania. We're talking about more rallies that are inside contained or in specific environments that are outside. Tomorrow's is going to be inside.

BLITZER: Indoor rallies have greater security than outdoor rallies to be sure. Kristen Holmes reporting for us. Kristen, thank you.

Let's break all of this down with our political experts who are joining us right now. Ron Brownstein, let me start with you. President Biden's campaign is publicly insisting he's not going anywhere. But the calls for him to step aside seem to be growing sometimes by the hour. Do you see this pressure ultimately pushing President Biden to step aside?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, all rational calculation would say yes, but their posture has been more defiant, really from the outset than you might have expected given the level of unease in the party. I think if you talk to the political strategists, you know, campaign managers, pollsters overwhelmingly do not believe Biden can recover. I think donors are in the same camp, elected officials who are divided, but they are now moving toward that kind of preponderance as well.

Wolf, the analogy I often hear from Democrats, it's pretty striking, you know, more than one person has said to me some version of when you are in a car that is speeding toward a cliff, it is unquestionably risky to jump out of the doors while it's still moving. But it's probably riskier to stay in the car as it goes over the cliff. And that I think is the dominant view among Democrats. It's not easy to switch, but what they are doing is not on a trajectory to succeed. BLITZER: Bill de Blasio, the former New York City mayor is also joining us. Mayor, sources are telling CNN that former Speaker Nancy Pelosi actually played a role in Congresswoman Lofgren's call for Biden to step aside. Another source described the President as being, quote, a "seething," seething at Nancy Pelosi right now. How remarkable do you think all of this is?

BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Oh, it's unprecedented, Wolf. But I would just like to say Nancy Pelosi is such a towering figure in our party, and one of the most pragmatic, get things done leaders we've ever seen in the history of the Democratic Party. And so it does not surprise me, even if she's being careful about it publicly. If she believes that, to use Ron's example, we're in that car about to go off the cliff, it would not be in the nature of Nancy Pelosi to stand back and watch the car crash.

I think what we have to think about as well as what's happening on the ground, all the volunteers, all the supporters, especially in those swing states, you know, right now, I think there's a pervasive feeling in the party that we're not going to win. And there's going to be a lot of energy for the idea of let's do something different. And I would add, not just about who our candidates are, we also need to get a message because right now our message is primarily, you know, we're not Donald Trump, and to some extent, we're fighting for a woman's right to choose, but we're not really presenting the American people with a bigger positive vision of where we want to go. So there's a lot of things to fix. And I think there's tremendous energy on the ground to like be given that equation that we can win with.

BLITZER: SE Cupp, the current House Democratic Leader, Hakeem Jeffries is also not discouraging members from continuing to speak out against President Biden's candidacy. So should we expect to see even more defections coming up in the coming days? And can President Biden actually overcome all of this?

SE CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's what I'm hearing from Democrats when I talked to them. You mentioned Zoe Lofgren's letter it was devastating. I thought, Seth Moulton, another congressman from Massachusetts, wrote an op-ed in the Boston Globe today, talking about how the last time you saw Joe Biden he didn't recognize him. That was also pretty brutal.

I mean, these are not good stories for Joe Biden's campaign. I was watching CNN earlier and our Brianna Keilar did a great interview with a great Biden surrogate, a congressman, but he had to sit there defending really bad poll numbers, Democratic leadership concerns, Democratic voter concerns, Democratic donor concerns, is this really the news cycle that Democrats want to live in perpetually in this state of total inertia while Republicans are just building momentum after momentum after momentum and waging a very serious campaign, a campaign that's designed to win. I hope Biden gets the message from these Democrats that increasingly this campaign is looking like a vanity project.

[17:10:09] BLITZER: Eva McKend, you've been actually traveling and covering Vice President Kamala Harris. We're just learning she actually gave a pep talk to donors today, but didn't address questions about President Biden's candidacy. What does that say to you about the delicate position she's in right now?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: You know, Wolf, I think it illustrates that she's really a disciplined messenger. She is narrowly focused on outlining the stakes of this election. I was with her during her last six campaign stops across the country. And her last stop, for instance, in Michigan, she was joined by two former Republican women talking about reproductive rights. She often talks about Project 2025, so much so that you have Democratic voters showing up to these events talking about how they are afraid of Project 2025 and the policy implications of a second Trump presidency.

So I think that this sort of relentless focus on the issues, staying narrowly focused on the attack -- on the task at hand, is sort of the goal here in order to refocus this conversation. She seems to see very little upside to trying to weaken an already weakened President, Wolf.

BLITZER: Interesting. Ron, is the Trump campaign actually ready for a possible change in the Democratic ticket? And how much of their current strategy is centered on President Biden being their foil?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, look, I mean, I think they feel very confident about their prospects against President Biden at this point. You know, in part because the race has been so static and the movement has to the center has been in Trump's direction plus, Biden's, you know, problems, 40 percent approval rating, 70 percent, saying he's too old, have been there for a very long time. I mean, he has had the airwaves to himself in all of the swing states for almost all of this year. And his job approval rating in polling, it's been out in the last couple of days, is no higher in them than it is nationally despite all of that money.

I think they tried to focus on Harris, you know, some at the convention. But in both parties, I think there's a recognition that Harris just shakes up the deck, you know. Her floor might be lower. She wasn't a great candidate in 2020. It might not work out, but her ceiling almost certainly could be higher, particularly with a vice president that generates some excitement, Gretchen Whitmer. Josh Shapiro, Mark Kelly, I think Democrats, as the mayor said, would feel a real burst of energy not having to defend this difficult situation they're in.

BLITZER: We're going to go back to Bill de Blasio. Mayor de Blasio, how do you think Trump's speech last night at the Republican Convention in Milwaukee and his position in this race right now is actually impacting President Biden's thinking in whether he should stay or leave the race?

DE BLASIO: Look, I want to believe that President Biden and the people around him are objective and they're looking at facts. Even though it's a very difficult and painful decision, and a lot of emotion, there's a lot of facts to look at here. And by the way, I don't agree with Republicans, but they did manage their convention very well and they got a message across.

Now, I think your question about the speech, I would say that the beginning of the speech was exactly what Donald Trump should be doing more if he wanted to try and bring in those swing voters, particularly those suburban women voters who really will decide this election, but he couldn't help himself. You know, if after six or seven minutes of trying to be a unifier, his better angels flew away and he went back to an hour and a half of complaint and rambling negative, nasty complaints. So I think the challenge here for Trump is that he really can't get away from that essential persona. If you're Joe Biden watching that, I'm sure it's tempting to say, hey, we can regain a foothold. But in the end, I go back to the point that I think all of those Democrats, all those folks out there who want to win desperately need to believe we can win, and they don't see it right now.

And if they were given a little hope and a little possibility of winning, I think it creates a tremendous groundswell of energy that puts us right back in this game.

BLITZER: I want all of you to stand by. We have a lot more to discuss. This note, though, Congresswoman, Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren will be a guest here in the situation room, that's coming up next. Next hour, I should say. Everyone, standby.

Still ahead, I'll ask another house Democrat who says his constituents are concerned about the Biden campaign. Why he hasn't called on the president to step aside at least not yet. Standby.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:18:47]

BLITZER: More now on the breaking news, we're following a source telling CNN that President Biden is, quote, seething at former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi right now. Two House lawmakers close to Pelosi say she thinks the President needs to understand that this effort to push them aside is not going away despite the Biden campaign's efforts to quash it.

I want to bring in Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss from Massachusetts for some thoughts.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. First of all, what's your reaction to this reported rift between these two longtime allies, the President and Nancy Pelosi?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): I can't comment on it. I haven't spoken to either one of them and I wouldn't presume to know their inner workings of their relationship. What I can say is Nancy Pelosi wants to win back the House of Representatives. She is committed to it.

And what I can speak to, Wolf, is where my constituents are at. That's my job. I've been on the phone with my constituents for the last three weeks on an hourly basis. And I'm hearing deep and unaddressed doubts about the President's ability to beat Donald Trump about his ability to discharge the duties of his office over the next four years. But I'm also hearing that my constituents recognize it's his decision, he may be at the top of the ticket and if so they expect me to run through the finish line to help him beat Donald Trump and I absolutely will.

[17:20:09]

BLITZER: When do you think, Congressman, you will make a final decision, whether you're going to stay with the President Biden or urge him to move on?

AUCHINCLOSS: You know, we had an expression in the Marine Corps, Wolf, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I am not in any sense of panic or sense of urgency to fracture the party. And so, my job is to pressure test the top of the ticket, to ask tough questions, to delay the roll call vote when the DNC tried to move it forward so that we have the time and the space to have internal conversations. My job is to encourage the President to widen his circle of advisers so that he's getting accurate information, unbiased information. But I also want to leave the convention with unity.

Because ultimately, what's happening here is what a party is for. A party is an institution that is meant to win elections in order to effectuate policy that helps people. That's what the Democratic Party is doing. We're trying to win elections so that we can put in place policies that make the tax code more fair, that support U.S. global leadership, that recognize a woman's right to choose. And I'm proud of the fact that this party takes winning that seriously and it takes our policies that seriously.

BLITZER: As you know, in an op-ed today, Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton, one of your colleagues alleges that President Biden had trouble recognizing him despite having a years long relationship with the President. It happened he says at a D-Day anniversary event in Normandy. And he wrote and I'm quoting him now, this is Seth Moulton, "I watched the disastrous debate a few weeks ago, I have to admit that what I saw in Normandy was part of a deeper problem. Everything is riding on Biden's ability to beat Donald Trump in November." What's your reaction to what Seth Moulton is saying?

AUCHINCLOSS: Seth Moulton is a friend, that he's representing his district with fidelity as I'm trying to represent mine. I was not there at Normandy. I'm not going to speak to that interaction. I have been with the President about 18 months ago when he came to my district. I found our conversation lucid and engaging.

And, you know, I think a big part of being commander in chief especially when it comes to foreign policy is less about answering questions eloquently, which we have seen President Biden is not doing a good job of. And it's more about asking the right questions and expecting cogent answers. And I have great confidence that Joe Biden can continue to do that, as we're seeing in the Middle East, as we're seeing in Ukraine, as we're seeing in Taiwan, where he is navigating U.S. foreign policy successfully.

BLITZER: This is what -- this is part of what your other democratic colleague, Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, wrote to Biden yesterday, and I'm quoting now from this letter, "Your candidacy is on a trajectory to lose the White House and potentially impact crucial House and Senate races down ballot." What's your response to what Zoe Lofgren is saying?

AUCHINCLOSS: If the election were held today, I think she's almost certainly correct, as she knows, as I know is, you know, Wolf, four months is an eternity in politics, this election is coming down into probably 200,000 voters across five states. And this fall is when those 200,000 voters are probably going to make their final decision. There is still a lot of time for Democrats to make a strong and sharp contrast against Republicans based on upholding the rule of law, based on economic performance, based on respect for faith, family and patriotism. That I think can be the defining hallmarks of the Democrats ability to win over those Halley voters in the heartland.

BLITZER: Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts, thanks so much for joining us.

AUCHINCLOSS: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Up next, more on the state of President Biden's campaign. His campaign chief insisting the President is still the best candidate to win despite a growing list of congressional Democrats calling for him to exit the race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:28:29]

BLITZER: We're back with our political experts as President Biden is facing a new wave of defections by Democrats urging him to end his reelection bid, even as the campaign is trying to move forward.

Ron Brownstein, what did you make of what we just heard from Democratic Congressman Auchincloss?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, you know what, it was -- you know, what he said about his constituents I think was really indicative of the movement and the problem. And the idea that the President is seething at Nancy Pelosi, if that's accurate, I mean, there's no one in the Democratic Party, I don't think even Biden or Obama, who is like more respected than Nancy Pelosi.

The problem the Biden campaign has, I think, is that there really is not a plausible case they can lay out of how he can overcome the hole -- dig out of the hole that he's placed himself in. I mean, there is an argument that he is within range, the Democrats are within range in the three Rust Belt states that used to be in the blue wall if he wins them all and he wins Omaha, he gets a 270 Electoral College votes. But there's really no evidence that Biden's own standing in those states or his, you know, his campaigning skills at this point, puts him on a track to win them. So I think the inexorable pathway of this is more anxiety, more opposition, unless he kind of listens to what, you know, what it reads the room that is developing in the Democratic Party.

BLITZER: You're talking about Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, right?

BROWNSTEIN: Absolutely. Yes.

BLITZER: The congress --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean --

BLITZER: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: You know, the other four -- the other four swing states -- the other four swing states real quick, you know, Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona Nevada look almost completely out of reach. It's only those three that are still at all plausible. He's trailing in all three today and I think many Democrats, while thinking they are still within reach potentially for someone else, don't feel that the -- that he can change his image enough to actually overtake Trump in them or undertake the kind of vigorous campaign and sharp messaging that would be required to do so.

[17:30:20]

BLITZER: We're still, what, four months or so away from the election in November. Bill de Blasio, the congressman also said he wants time and space for internal conversations in his Democratic Party. But the Democratic National Convention is only a couple of weeks or so away. Are Democrats running out of time?

DE BLASIO: Wolf, I think we have just enough time, I mean, it's tight. But I -- there is time on the clock here. And the convention is obviously the historic place at which this decision is made. You know, we have historical precedents here. Harry Truman made a decision not to try again, when he could have Lyndon Johnson, obviously. And the convention is the place where this gets resolved.

There's a very strong argument that if we had kind of a mini open primary, it actually create a lot of energy, it would draw a lot of attention back to the Democratic Party, our ideas, our message, it allow us to speak to those suburban women. We need -- particularly need to speak to on issues like a woman's right to choose and -- and on the whole idea of having a democracy that works for everyday people that works for working people, as opposed to the extremism of Trump.

So we do have time to actually go through a transition. If that's what the President decides, uh, to Ron's point I -- I really want to emphasize, you know, it's, as a Democrat thinking about those tough, tough states. You know, you got to go into battle, believing there's some pathway forward. And I think this is the crucial point so much time has been lost in the last month. And if the President had like a strong, strong message, and we believe there was an obvious comeback strategy, that would be one thing.

But when every day that gets harder to believe, that's where I think a lot of Democrats are saying, OK, we only have a few weeks, but there's still a chance to salvage this if we go in the right direction.

BLITZER: S.E., when it comes to Donald Trump, but he clearly couldn't stay on script last night. Did he give President Biden Democrats or that matter, any ammunition with that performance at the Republican National Convention?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, Donald Trump was the worst part of the RNC. The RNC ran really, really well. I mean, I was -- I was impressed. It was energetic. You know, people there were really, really excited to be there. And he kind of had a layup and instead air balled it.

However, presidential victories are not generally won at their conventions with their speeches. It was a speech. It was a terrible speech. And -- and, you know, Chris LaCivita, who's run a great campaign should keep Donald Trump off -- off of television, let him stick to -- to those rallies.

However, I don't think this should give Democrats any false hope of about the state of affairs in their party. All of the math that Ron laid out in the swing states is really, really bad for Joe Biden. And -- and like everyone said, they're not laying out a pathway to change any of that. I have to disagree with Bill, just a little I don't think an open primary, an open convention is a good idea.

The one thing Democrats are lacking right now is unity. That's what Republicans have in spades. Exposing all the fault lines inside the Democratic Party, I think is a very bad idea. I -- I think if -- if you're going to -- if you're going to take Biden off the ticket, you have to present voters with the new ticket and just say whether it's Kamala Harris and Josh Shapiro, or name your combination, you just have to say, Joe Biden stepping down and here is the new ticket. We listened to you. We heard you. We've made the change. Now everyone get on board. I don't think a week of Democratic infighting at a convention is something that this party can afford.

BLITZER: Eva McKend, speaking of the Vice President Kamala Harris, she -- and you've been covering or you've been traveling with her, she clearly has been ramping up her public appearances in recent days and weeks. And we saw her stop at an ice cream shop today, taking a page straight out of the Biden playbook. What are you hearing from voters in key battleground states about the path forward? And whether there's an appetite for Kamala Harris to take over for President Biden?

MCKEND: You know, Wolf, I don't know if she's been ramping up so much because she's getting just a lot more attention now that all eyes are on her. As for the campaign trail, I'm hearing a range of views. Many Democratic voters are frankly surprised. The Democrats are deciding to litigate this in the final hour. You know, they're saying things to me like isn't it too late for all of this if they wanted President Biden to step aside, why wasn't this groundswell happening.

A year ago, many Democratic voters especially older voters, feel loyal to the President. And then others are opening -- open to seeing him step aside but don't think that he should be pushed. They think it's a decision that he should arrive out on his own. One woman in Michigan told me, she would be thrilled if Vice President Harris led the ticket and she thinks that the governor of Michigan should be her running mate. [17:35:21]

So really a whole host of views, but ultimately, the sort of the unifier, Wolf, Among all of these voters, is -- is that they do not want to see the former president get reelected. Some voters even sort of making a joke of this one woman telling me she sort of resigned herself to the fact that she doesn't belong to an organized political party. She's a Democrat, after all, and sort of just said that she would ultimately vote for whoever the Democrats settled on to put up in November.

BLITZER: All right guys, thank you very, very much. Good discussion indeed. Just ahead, what we know tonight about the health of two U.S. presidents, to former President Trump's injuries following an assassination attempt, to President Biden's COVID-19 infection. We'll speak live to Dr. Anthony Fauci who has worked with both of these presidents. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:21]

BLITZER: The White House physician says, President Biden's symptoms have improved meaningfully as he recovers from COVID at his home in Delaware. In a statement, the President says he's looking forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week. Joining us now is Dr. Anthony Fauci, the former director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. He's also the author of a brand new book, there you see the cover, entitled "On Call: A Doctor's Journey in Public Service." It's already a "New York Times" best seller, as it should be. Dr. Fauci, thanks for joining us.

The White House physician, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, says President Biden completed his fourth dose of Paxlovid this morning. But his symptoms have improved meaningfully from yesterday. That's a, quote. You served under President Biden, what do you make of this update on his health and his decision to take Paxlovid.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, FMR. DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Well, it certainly was the right decision. I mean, he's 81 years old, and one of the risk factors for getting severe disease that might lead to hospitalization is age. He has something going for him. First of all, he's an otherwise healthy person, even though he's 81. Number two, he's been vaccinated and boosted multiple times. And he's had a prior bout of COVID.

So his underlying immunity, his ability for his own immune system, to fight the virus is pretty much in good shape, you add to that, the extra boost that you get from Paxlovid. So it was definitely the right decision to put them on Paxlovid. And I would expect, as I'm sure Kevin O'Connor, his physician, also expects that he's going to do just fine, and recover completely and recover quickly. I would not be surprised at all if that's the case. In fact, we're definitely expecting that.

BLITZER: Yes. Let's hope that happens. Do you have any concerns, Dr. Fauci, about President Biden's fitness to serve a second term?

FAUCI: You know, I can't comment on that, Wolf. The last time I had a meaningful interaction with President Biden was about 18 months ago, and he was fine. He was sharp every time I spent two years in the White House with him. And, you know, he's a sharp guy, asks probing questions. You always have to be well prepared when you go in and speak with him. But the last time I did have any meaningful interaction with him was 18 months ago.

BLITZER: You also served, Dr. Fauci, under former President Trump as we all remember, and we've gotten very few medical updates about his condition since he was injured in that attempt on his life. Take a listen to some of what we've heard at least so far, then I'll get your reaction. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: When I heard a loud whizzing sound, and felt something hit me really, really hard on my right ear, I said to myself, wow, what was that? It can only be a bullet.

REP. RONNY JACKSON (R-TX): There was no concussive effect from the bullet. And it just took the top of his ear off, a little bit of the top of his ear off as it passed through. We've got to dress up. He'll be OK. He's not going to need it. It's going to -- it's going to granulate and heal in and he's not going to need anything to have to be done with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was Dr. Ronny Jackson, the former president's doctor at the White House, and now a member of Congress. What more does the public need to know about the extent of Donald Trump's injuries and his treatment?

FAUCI: You know, I -- I don't think there is much more to it. I mean, from what we've seen, and what we've heard. It was a -- a -- it was a bullet shot that grazed his ear and injured his ear. According to the physicians who examined him, there was no other further damage. So I think that with regard to the health related purely to the bullet itself, I think he's in the clear, as far as I can see. I mean, it's dangerous to make diagnoses from a distance. From what I'm seeing, the way he's acting now and what his physicians report saw, it seems to have been a superficial wound to the ear. And that's all.

BLITZER: I just want to just read one line from our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who -- who said this, and I'll read it to you. This is a -- this is Dr. Sanjay Gupta, saying gunshot blasts near the head can cause injuries that aren't immediately noticeable, such as bleeding in or on the brain, damage to the inner ear or even psychological trauma. As you know, he's a neurosurgeon. What do you make of that?

[17:45:10]

FAUCI: Well, I mean, I know Sanjay. He's is a good friend. He's got a good clinical judgment. He's a practicing neurosurgeon. So again, it's very difficult from a distance when you're not examining someone yourself to make any projection about it. I'm just commenting on what I'm seeing superficially. I would imagine, Wolf, that is physicians did some studying, they very likely did an imaging study being a CT or an MRI or what have you. I don't know that as a fact. But I would think that that would be a reasonable thing to do, following an encounter the way he had with a bullet.

BLITZER: I think you're right, Dr. Fauci. Thanks so much for joining us. Once again, Dr. Fauci's new book is entitled, "On Call." It's a very important book indeed. And we want to make sure you get a chance to read it. Dr. Fauci, thanks as usual, for joining us.

And coming up, we're going to bring you reaction to what's being called a disgraceful and sham conviction after Russia finds an American journalist guilty of spying and gives him 16 years in prison.

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[17:50:23]

BLITZER: We're following the impact of that massive cyber outage that crippled airports, banks, hospitals and even emergency 911 services today here in the United States and indeed, around the world. Some experts are even calling it the largest I.T. failure in history. Getting everything back up and running could be a lengthy process as CNN's Tom Foreman reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like I'm being completely screwed over. This is bull crap.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As airports and trains, hospitals and emergency services, media, retailers, delivery companies, and even the U.S. space program grappled with a global cyber outage, a stunning admission, a single glitch and a software update from the cybersecurity company, CrowdStrike, triggered the whole mess.

GEORGE KURTZ, FOUNDER & CEO, CROWDSTRIKE: We identify this very quickly and remediate it the issue. And as systems come back online, as they're rebooted, they're coming up and -- and they're working.

FOREMAN (voice-over): This is how it happened. CrowdStrike is a multibillion dollar cybersecurity firm, which helps many Fortune 500 companies protect their Microsoft operating systems from hackers and viruses that requires constant updates. And normally when one is deployed --

MIKE DRISCOLL, FORMER FBI AGENT: It will be tested extensively. And they will work widely with the providers like Microsoft and other organizations that run these platforms to make sure it is compatible with these networks.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But this update was faulty, causing infected computers around the planet to shut down. Dave DeWalt is a top expert in the field. He was up all night helping get them back online.

DAVE DEWALT, FOUNDER & CEO, NIGHTDRAGON: CrowdStrike was doing everything in its power to stop threats from occurring by doing the updates. But at the same time, you know, the quality control broke down and we ended up with what we had happen.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Government Services far and wide were affected by the outage, including in the U.S., Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, Social Security, and even some state 911 systems. At the White House, the fact they could all be affected by one mistake is raising caution flags.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: This digitization and technology has brought massive benefits. But every technology has its downsides.

FOREMAN (voice-over): As it is in New York, one of the famous billboards of Times Square was blanked by the problem. In Paris, final preparation for the Olympics were rattled. And all over --

DEWALT: The banking industry and everything else a couple -- couple more hours, you know, maybe the rest of the day and will -- will be returned.

FOREMAN (voice-over): -- disputes about how long it will take to get back to normal.

VICTORIA BAINES, PROF. OF IT, GRESHAM COLLEGE: There are estimates that this is going to take some days, perhaps even weeks to fully recover from the impact.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): All of that has on analysts saying as popular as CrowdStrike is, maybe the market needs some alternatives out there if one mistake can do this much damage. Wolf?

BLITZER: Tom Foreman reporting for us. Tom, thank you very much.

Also knew tonight, "The Wall Street Journal" reporter, Evan Gershkovich, has been sentenced to 16 years in a Russian prison. CNN's Matthew Chance has more on what the U.S. government calls a sham case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ahead of the verdict in the Russian courthouse, cameras jostle for a glimpse of the U.S. journalist in his glass cage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

CHANCE (voice-over): After finding him guilty of espionage, the judge asked Evan Gershkovich if he had any questions about the 16-year prison sentence he'd been handled on. Looking thin and tired, The Wall Street Journal reporter answered, no. But critic says guilty verdict was inevitable and underlines how politicized Russia's judicial system has become. A strongly worded statement from Gershkovich's employers, called it a disgraceful and sham conviction that comes after his 478 days in prison wrongfully detained and away from his family.

CHANCE (on camera): You can see Evan Gershkovich is in there. Hi, Matthew from CNN. Are you holding up all right?

CHANCE (voice-over): It's been a saga which has seen Evan Gershkovich now 32 make several tightly controlled court appearances since being detained and accused of gathering secret information on a Russian tank factory for the CIA. Allegations denied by Gershkovich and the U.S. government.

There are other U.S. citizens held in Russia.

PAUL WHELAN, FORMER U.S. MARINE: I'm innocent of any charge resulting from --

CHANCE (voice-over): Like Paul Whelan, a former Marine sentenced in 2020 to 16 years for spying and also designated by Washington was wrongly detained. Dual citizen, Ksenia Karelina, an amateur ballerina from L.A. and journalist, Alsu Kurmasheva are also in custody. Also Gordon Black, a staff sergeant in the U.S. Army and U.S. school teacher, Marc Fogel. Critics suspect the Kremlin has been collecting U.S. citizens as bargaining chips for a future deal. But even now, that deal could still be months or perhaps years away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:55:37]

CHANCE (on camera): Wolf, the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken says, tonight, the U.S. government is working every day to bring home Evan Gershkovich and others wrongfully detained in Russia. It all depends on what the other side wants, Blinken says. Playing down concerns that Moscow could wait for a Trump presidency to make a deal. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: All right, Matthew Chance reporting. Let's hope he comes home soon.

Coming up, I'll speak to a key Democrat who just called on President Biden to step aside. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren will be live right here in the Situation Room.

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