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Trump and Musk Awaiting Splash Down of Powerful SpaceX Rocket; Confidential Files Including Deposition of Matt Gaetz Accuser Breached; Sources Say, Ukraine Fires U.S.-Made Longer Range Missiles into Russia. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 19, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news, President-elect Trump and Elon Musk are standing by for the splashdown of the most powerful rocket ever built. We're tracking the SpaceX test flight, as well as Musk's growing influence over Trump and his incoming administration.

Also breaking, new information that someone gained unauthorized access to confidential files, including a deposition with a woman who says she had sex with Matt Gaetz when she was 17 years old. This as demands to see the House Ethics Committee report on Gaetz are intensifying amid growing concerns about his prospects of becoming the U.S. attorney general.

Plus, Ukraine fires U.S.-made longer range missiles into Russia for the first time after getting the green light from President Biden, Vladimir Putin responding by lowering the threshold for his use of nuclear weapons, sending a rather provocative message to the west.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Will Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

And let's get right to the breaking news on the SpaceX test flight with splashdown of the rocket expected at any moment.

CNN Contributor Kristin Fisher is following the mission for us and CNN's Kristen Holmes is tracking the politics of it all with President-elect Trump joining Elon Musk at the launch site.

I want to I bring in Kristin Fisher. She's here with me in The Situation Room. So, Kristin, what happens next?

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Wolf, right now, we are just moments away from Starship splashing down in the Indian Ocean. And what you can see here is Earth. These are clouds beneath the Starship. And what's so remarkable about this, two things, every other Starship launch that we've seen and Starship reentry has been at night time. So, for the first time, we're getting to see this at daytime.

But what really stands out, Wolf, is this is the first time that we are ever able to watch a spacecraft reenter the Earth's atmosphere and return to Earth all live in high quality video. And that's thanks to Starlink terminals that are mounted on Starship. So, really, a tour de force by SpaceX showing what they're capable of here, first with the Starship launch, and now with Starlink providing us these awesome live images, Wolf.

BLITZER: Kristin, what are -- Kristin Fisher, what are the benefits of SpaceX pushing the ship to max upon reentry.

FISHER: Yes, so what we've been hearing over and over is there may not be a good looking splashdown in the Indian Ocean because SpaceX right now is really pushing Starship to the limit, because they want to see just how far it can go. This is really useful for when you're carrying, you know, people, but also sensitive and expensive payloads. You want to know what exactly this spacecraft is capable of, how sharp, how steep of a rate of return can it make and still survive.

So, throughout this SpaceX webcast, they've been saying, look, be warned, this is an old generation Starship. The heat shield tiles that are on it, that you can see on the -- actually they're on the belly, the underside of that ship, it's an old generation model, not the best stuff. They're going to try to put this Starship, see if they can actually get it to the point of breaking up and burning up, so that they can take that data and say, this is how far we can push it for future test flights.

BLITZER: And give us a little bit more, Kristin, about the steps that SpaceX is going through right now.

FISHER: So, what they're doing is they're trying to figure out how to make Starship rapidly reusable. They want to be able to take this spacecraft and land it vertically on Earth, just like they did a month ago with the booster, catch it in those chopsticks. And the reason they want to do that is because they want to rapidly reuse both the booster and the Starship spacecraft itself to make spaceflight more affordable, to reduce the cost of getting things into orbit.

So, you know, ultimately, this is the spaceship that SpaceX and the president-elect, Donald Trump, say and believe is going to fly the first humans, not just to the moon, of course, humanity has already done that, but the very first humans to Mars.

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This is the first time that we're ever seeing a spacecraft fly that's designed to take people to Mars, and not just a few people, but lots of people, a Starship. This vehicle will be able to carry up to a hundred people.

And so that's what Elon Musk and all of SpaceX is trying to do, take lots of people, hundreds, if not thousands of people, to someday colonize Mars, make life multi-planetary.

And what you're seeing here, Wolf, I mean, look at this. This is Starship literally going through the clouds over the Indian Ocean. You can hear, I believe, applause from SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. And you can see those little flaps right there that are whittling up and down, they did not survive previous test flights, and they were given means the little flap that could. You could see the plasma engulfing it. The fact that it survived this test flight so far and that the cameras are still working.

BLITZER: You can hear the applause coming in from the headquarters over there.

FISHER: Yes.

BLITZER: They're obviously very happy.

FISHER: Very happy.

BLITZER: What are the risk factors, Kristin, that SpaceX is trying to mitigate right now? We're finally seeing the ocean right now as it's beginning to go down.

FISHER: I mean, look at that. That is a picture perfect on-target landing splashdown by SpaceX's Starship spacecraft. Look at that. You know, we haven't been able to see this before or get this kind of footage because, as I said, the previous test flights have been done at nighttime. But this is exactly -- this is better than what SpaceX had hoped for with Starship on the sense that they didn't think that they would be able to get it this far to the splashdown. They thought it would burn up on reentry because they were pushing it this far.

Another big success of this mission was the fact that they were able to light one of Starship's engines in the vacuum of space.

But, of course, Wolf, without a doubt, there was a disappointment at the beginning here. You know, yes, the booster was able to get Starship into space, but it was not able to be caught. There was something wrong that kept it from being caught by those giant chopsticks. And, of course, with the President-elect Trump there, a little bit of a disappointment for Elon Musk and SpaceX. But, overall, this is going to be viewed as a big success and a step forward for the Starship program.

BLITZER: It's now in the Indian Ocean. It's going to go to the bottom and just rest there. Is that right?

FISHER: Yes. It's just going to sink down there, never to be recovered.

BLITZER: As it goes into the Indian Ocean, you can see those images right there on the screen, successful going into the Indian Ocean right now.

Kristin Fisher, standby.

I want to bring in Keith Cowing right now. He's editor of NASAWatch.com. Keith, thanks so much for join joining us.

SpaceX did not attempt to catch the rocket booster midair, as it did last month. What do you make of that decision?

KEITH COWING, EDITOR, NASAWATCH.COM: Well, this is all designed such that it's like being at an airport where the plane pulls in, people get off, people get on and you leave, and the guy standing there going like this. Well, something in the whole process said, no, you're not going to land at the pad, but you're going to land out in the water. And the whole idea is they want to get these rockets back, land them on the pad, put something on it, launch it, get it back, and so forth. You got to be sure that thing's not going to crash or do something inaccurate.

So, again, Kristin had it all right. This is a test flight and so far they seem to have done almost everything perfectly.

BLITZER: So, what's your overall view, Keith, of how today's launch has gone?

COWING: Well, this is a classic, fly a little, test a little, fly a little, test a little. Totally different than NASA, where they launch, unfortunately, the rockets, like, once every couple of years and all the fingers are crossed. This is a consumer product by a guy who runs businesses that produce consumer products. It's designed for continuous improvement. They're willing to, you know, destroy things to get it just right. And what you get is you get a good product faster if you willingly accept the risks.

BLITZER: As you know, SpaceX said it's attempting to push this spacecraft to its limits today. What are they hoping to learn from doing that?

COWING: Well, what they did, as Kristin was talking over, I was watching the video and I didn't see any more glowing. I just saw clouds and I thought, well, it's over. The hard part was to see if you leave some pieces off or it's damaged if it can survive the immense heat of reentry.

And apparently, again, I'm just, you know, a former rocket scientist. It looks like it did exactly what it was supposed to do.

BLITZER: Stand by, Keith. I want to bring in our Kristen Holmes. She's covering the Trump transition for us. Trump is there in Texas, as you know, Kristen, with Elon Musk, another indication of how close they have gotten, right?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, I mean, they're truly attached at the hip. We know that Donald Trump and Elon Musk were both together at the UFC fight over the weekend. Now, they're both together here. And I cannot tell you how many times Donald Trump on the campaign trail talked about how impressive Elon Musk was and particularly when it came to SpaceX.

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He seemed almost fixated on the idea that Elon Musk had the power to launch rockets. And, clearly, this was something that Donald Trump wanted to be a part of. So, he has traveled down there to Texas with him.

The other thing to note is that Elon Musk, yes, obviously, this is a big deal. He's at the space launch, but also he has had an outsized role in picking Donald Trump's cabinet. He has voiced his opinion in a number of meetings for the transition, sometimes to the chagrin of some of the transition team members who kind of wish that he wasn't in the room since he has a lot to say about a lot of people. But it'll be interesting to see what comes out of this trip in terms of traveling and being together without the necessary whole transition team, because we know he has pushed Matt Gaetz, continued to say that Trump should support him, that Gaetz himself is a great pick.

He also picked -- he also was supporting Howard Lutnick, for example, for treasury secretary. Obviously, that didn't work out for him. But he's traveling with two people who might, or who we believe are up for consideration for various posts, including Bill Hagerty, who has been in consideration for secretary of treasury, and Linda McMahon, who we learned tonight, my colleague, Kaitlan Collins, and I, that she's expected to get education secretary. So, really, the whole Trump orbit now has become kind of the Trump-Elon Musk orbit of it all.

BLITZER: Yes, very dramatic indeed. All right, Kristen, thank you very much. To everyone, thank you. We're going to stay on top of this story.

We're also just ahead getting some new details coming in right now on Matt Gaetz with CNN learning that confidential files, including a deposition of one of his accusers, have been breached.

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BLITZER: More breaking news this hour involving President-elect Trump's embattled choice to be the U.S. attorney general, Matt Gaetz. We're getting new information about very confidential files that were breached, including a deposition with a woman who says she had sex with Gaetz when she was 17 years old.

CNN's Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid is working the story for us. What are you learning, Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, yesterday we reported on this civil litigation down in Florida. This is a lawsuit brought by a friend of former Congressman, Matt Gaetz. And as a result of this lawsuit, they discovered -- really, through the discovery process, they created this whole new trove of evidence, including depositions with, as you just noted, the woman who says she was just 17 when she had sex with Gaetz, as well as other women who were at the party when this alleged encounter took place. They've created this evidence that sources tell us the House Ethics Committee has used in its probe.

We've been told that the Ethics Committee has really looked at this lawsuit as a road map in terms of who to talk to and what kind of evidence they can gather. And we have learned that some of the records in this case, they are confidential, including that deposition with a 17-year-old girl that is under seal. It's only available to the lawyers involved in the case and his confidential records. They are stored in a secure online document sharing system. And we've learned that lawyers in the case were notified by another lawyer yesterday that that secure online system was accessed by an unknown third party who had access to that sensitive material that, again, we believe is similar to what could be in the House Ethics report.

Now, we asked at least one of the lawyers if they notified authorities about this third party breach, but we haven't gotten a comment. And, of course, this development comes as the House Ethics Committee is going to meet tomorrow to discuss that report. It's unclear, though, if that report will be released. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Paula Reid reporting, Paula, thank you very much.

President-elect Trump was asked about the controversy surrounding Matt Gaetz just a little while ago, and he doubled down, insisting he is not reconsidering his choice for attorney general. But concerns are clearly mounting right now up on Capitol Hill.

CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is following all of this for us. Manu, Gaetz is now calling Republican senators, asking them to, quote, give him a shot.

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he is, and, in fact, doing that and tomorrow. Gaetz is expected to be on Capitol Hill with the vice president-elect, J. D. Vance, meeting with some key senators on the Senate Judiciary Committee trying to lock down support. But there are growing number of Republican senators who want to see that House Ethics report that goes into the allegations of sexual misconduct with Matt Gaetz, which Gaetz has denied, including some Republicans who could weigh whether they would vote for him or not or have raised serious concerns, like Senator Lisa Murkowski.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): I would like to see our committees do their full job. I don't -- I'm not interested in a process that would just say, well, because the president has named him and you have Republican chairs coming into the new Congress that we just move people out. There needs to be legitimate vetting. When I say legitimate, I mean, just thorough vetting that the committees do. This is our job.

RAJU: But don't these sexual misconduct allegations, including sex with a minor, give you pause?

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Well, this is what I mean. I mean, this is the upper -- the right response to that motto is we can either play the hearsay game where it's drip, drip, drip, this person said this, person said that, or we could say we're going to move forward with the confirmation process and we're going to allow him to address all of this and lay out his vision for the department.

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Sexual misconduct or statutory rape in the case of Matt Gaetz is disqualifying.

(END VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: Of course, Gaetz has denied those allegations. But tomorrow, Wolf, the House Ethics Committee will meet behind closed doors and as they weigh how to proceed with this report. If a majority of that ten- member committee votes to release it, that could come become public. But, Wolf, that would require one Republican to join with Democrats. It's unclear if that will happen. And then whether the report will actually come and see the light of day remains an open question, even as GOP senators demand it.

[18:20:02]

Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.

I want to get some reaction now from our political experts who are standing by. Ana Navarro, let me start with you. Trump says he's not reconsidering Gaetz for attorney general, even as he's privately acknowledging the odds of his confirmation by the Senate aren't good. What do you think is going on here?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I actually believe that, you know, there's people who think that Matt Gaetz is being used as a sacrificial lamb by Trump so that he can get all his other appointees through. I don't believe that. I think that Donald Trump feels himself invincible with the win he had with a Republican Congress, where the Supreme Court that's given him basically immunity. I think he feels he has no guardrails. I think he feels these Republican senators owe him, that they wouldn't be in the majority but for him, and that they're going to make it happen for him.

Also, we know that Donald Trump is not a person who admits mistakes, is not a person who has regrets or apologizes. He doubles down and he tries to get things -- ram things through.

Look, I remember when Kimba Wood and Zoe Baird, attorney general appointees of Bill Clinton, had to withdraw because of issues with a nanny. I remember when Neera Tanden, who was an appointee of Joe Biden's, had to withdraw because she had written some pithy, controversial tweets. These are a whole bunch of different standards, or lack thereof when it comes to Donald Trump appointees, right? It's not just Gaetz. It's Gaetz. It's Hegseth. It's RFK. It's Tulsi Gabbard. Pick one that you're going to battle with.

BLITZER: Let me get Scott Jennings into this conversation. Scott, Trump is working the phone himself for Gaetz calling senators. Is it good for the GOP, for Trump to spend his political capital forcing senators to vote for someone accused of paying a minor for sex?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, great question. And, obviously, there's going to be tremendous resistance to Gaetz. And I don't know how successful Donald Trump is going to be at this. I mean, this goes beyond just the handful of senators who normally have problems with Donald Trump or who have feuded with him over issues in the past. I think the resistance to Gaetz goes into people who would say they strongly support Donald Trump but have serious concerns about this.

So, we'll see if he sticks with it. You know, there's still a lot of time between now and the next Congress convening. And at some point, you know, when you're the president and you've got a nominee for anything, you have to ask yourself, do I want to suffer a defeat, most people don't get defeated, they just withdraw from the process. It is obvious that all this information that's coming out about Gaetz, whether the House Ethics Committee acts to release their report or not, is going to find its way into the hands of the Senate. They're going to -- I think I saw John Cornyn say tonight, that they can just re-interview all the same witnesses that interviewed with the Ethics Committee.

So, I think of all the nominees that are sitting up there right now, I'd just put Gaetz in a separate category. There's more resistance to him than anybody else and obviously more issues coming out by the day.

BLITZER: Bakari Sellers is with us as well. Bakari, Elon Musk is also weighing in on this posting on X that Gaetz has, and I'm quoting him now, a spine of steel and an axe to grind, end quote, and adding, and I'm quoting once again, Gaetz will be our hammer of justice. Is that the role of the attorney general, do you think, to be a hammer with an axe to grind?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's definitely not when you are a chief judicial officer and the person who is supposed to administer justice fairly and freely and without any intrusion or interference from other branches of government.

Elon Musk has his thumb on the scale of government far too much. I mean, I think that his input, I think his impact, I think that the transactional nature of both the organization that he and Vivek Ramaswamy are supposed to lead, as well as the fact that he has just been feeding off of the United States government throughout most of his career to build his businesses, he's a brilliant man, but his impact and input on this government, I believe, will find to be wrought with conflicts of interest.

But I think that Scott and Ana were both very correct. I mean, I don't necessarily care for Kristi Noem's politics, and I think we can have a robust discussion about policy, et cetera, but she's somebody who probably needs to be voted in. I mean, you look at my Mehmet Oz over CMS. I mean, you don't necessarily care for the campaign he run or maybe have disagreements over politics, but you have -- the president gets to choose their cabinet.

But when you come to people like Hegseth, when you come to people like Tulsi Gabbard, when you come to people like Matt Gaetz, and you have these sincere and serious character flaws that lead into something else, I think the country has to take a pause, and I'm glad that the Senate, all of them, including Republicans, are taking that role seriously.

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BLITZER: And, Ana, as Bakari just mentioned, Trump is naming another T.V. host to his administration, naming Dr. Mehmet Oz, to lead the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which impacts millions of Americans who rely on Medicare and Medicaid. Is he qualified, do you believe, for that role?

NAVARRO: Look, that's a role -- that's an answer that has to be found out by the members of the Senate. Certainly, there's concerns, and there's concerns that should be asked about, right, his quackery, his misinformation during the beginning part of COVID-19, some of his financial interests.

So, look, if Donald Trump wants to fill his cabinet with T.V. people, that's up to him, but they need to be qualified and that is up to the Senate.

BLITZER: Scott, how do you see it?

JENNINGS: Yes. Dr. Oz, I think is likely to make it because, principally, I've already read tonight that both of his home state senators who he ran against, by the way, Senator-elect Dave McCormick, he's thrown his support behind him, and even John Fetterman has already said, as long as he is committed to protecting Social Security and Medicare, I think we need to give him a chance.

So, when you have the support of your home state senators, two guys from two different parties that you've run against, I think that bodes well for your nomination. Normally, the person who takes this job really, really loves spreadsheets, and it's true. Dr. Oz is a T.V. person, but he's also a very celebrated and very decorated surgeon.

And so I think he obviously has an interest in public service. That's why he ran for the Senate in the first place. The fact that he wants to do this, I think, is a good thing, because we do need to attract people into government who have a sincere interest in public service. And the fact that his former opponents are for him, I love that tonight.

So, I think this is a good nomination. And, of course, you'll have to go through the same hearings. But this is going to work out, hopefully, for President Trump.

BLITZER: As you know, Bakari, Dr. Oz was a very controversial figure during his Senate run in Pennsylvania. He faced criticism for promoting unproven medications on his television show and for his involvement in research experiments that killed puppies. What do you make this selection?

SELLERS: Yes, between he and Kristi Noem, puppies don't stand a chance in this administration. But, you know, I find myself actually, Wolf, you need to probably win the Nobel Peace Prize, because I find myself agreeing with Scott a lot during this segment.

The president of the United States gets an opportunity to choose their cabinet. These issues are going to be vetted through the United States Senate through that confirmation process. I mean, they are going to go through and ask those questions. But at the end of the day, if he is willing to do the job, we'll have policy disagreements. We'll be able to push back throughout the legislative process, but he should be entitled to actually get that job.

There's one person that I'm looking at in the United States Senate on how they vote on these particular nominees. It's the person who has one of the more treacherous paths. That's Thom Tillis with Mark Robinson looming in 2026 as a Republican opponent and Roy Cooper as a general election opponent. I'm looking to see what Thom Tillis does on all of these.

BLITZER: We'll see what they all say. All right, guys, thank you very much.

Just ahead, two major escalations overseas today, Ukraine firing American-made longer range missiles into Russia for the first time, as Vladimir Putin now changes policy on using nuclear weapons. We'll talk with the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Senator Jack Reed is standing by live.

Stay with us. You're in The Situation Room.

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BLITZER: Tonight, sources tell CNN Ukraine is quickly taking advantage of a new U.S. Biden administration policy allowing the use of longer range U.S. missiles against targets inside Russia, Ukrainian forces hitting a Russian weapons arsenal in a major escalation of the war.

Joining us now, the chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Democratic Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

Russia's brutal war against Ukraine, as you know, is now in its 1,000th day. How will Ukraine's use of these U.S. provided ATACM missiles help bring about an end to the war?

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Well, they can strike deeper and more critical targets. They'll concentrate their efforts, I think, against the Kursk salient. And particularly, I think, they'll go after North Korean forces. Again, part of this escalation is on the Russian side of bringing in forces from North Korea. And I think the Ukrainians will effectively target military targets and put pressure on Russia in terms of disrupting supply communications and their ability to continue to conduct operations against the Ukrainians.

BLITZER: Putin has now updated Russia's nuclear doctrine to lower the bar for the Kremlin to use nuclear weapons. Do you think Putin is seriously considering the use of these weapons or is this an attempt to scare Ukraine's western allies, including the U.S.?

REED: Well, I think it's definitely an attempt to scare his opponents threatening them with the use of nuclear weapons. One of the interesting things that happened when he first started talking about nuclear weapons China, Xi Jinping, sent, I think, a very strong message that the use of those weapons would be not acceptable to China, because it would start an arms race across the globe, including Asia.

[18:35:02]

So, I think Putin is, at this point, being more rhetorical than anything else.

BLITZER: Yes, let's hope. Let's turn to the incoming Trump administration and Trump making some direct appeals right now to senators, your colleagues, on behalf of Matt Gaetz, his picked for attorney general. Have you seen anything from your GOP colleagues that would lead you to believe they will stand up to confirm Matt Gaetz?

REED: I think many of them have serious questions about his capability, his training, his experience, and also all the insinuations about his private conduct. And I think many of them are very much concerned. Some have already come out public and said they would not support him, so I think that's a nomination that is at the moment in jeopardy.

BLITZER: Have you actually spoken with the president-elect or, for that matter, former Congressman Gaetz?

REED: No, I have not. I'm not on the Judiciary Committee. And, typically, the focal point of conversations initially by a nominee is with committee members of the relevant committee.

BLITZER: You've called Pete Hegseth the, quote, least prepared individual ever to be suggested to be secretary of defense, while Tulsi Gabbard, Trump's pick to become director of National Intelligence, has been accused of parroting Russian propaganda. Do you see either of these two potential nominations as a national security threat?

REED: Well, the first aspect of evaluating these candidates is looking at their record in detail and, frankly, giving them an opportunity to explain their positions. We also need, in both cases particularly, a very thorough FBI background check. Because without such a check, we might jump to the wrong conclusions or not know significant information.

And then we have to look at their experience. As I indicated the nominee for secretary of defense has never really served in the Defense Department, has never been involved in a major organization. And DOD is the largest organization in the federal government. And he's also being called upon at a time where there's tremendous technological change, which requires, I think, some of the skills that he has not yet demonstrated.

But those are the types of questions, in addition to allegations about his personal conduct, that we must have answers to before we make a conclusion.

BLITZER: Senator Jack Reed, thanks so much for joining us.

REED: Thanks, Wolf. BLITZER: And coming up, new developments in Donald Trump's New York felony convictions, what the Manhattan D.A. is now asking the judge to do over sentencing as the Trump defense team tries to get it all thrown out.

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[18:40:00]

BLITZER: Tonight, President-elect Trump's sentencing for his unprecedented criminal conviction has been delayed again. The Manhattan district attorney agreeing to the postponement as the appeals process plays out, but arguing that the judge should not dismiss Trump's conviction.

Let's get some more in all of this with CNN Anchor and Chief Legal Analyst Laura Coates who's here with me in The Situation Room. Laura, the Trump team calls this development, I'm quoting now, a total and definitive victory. Is it?

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: In many ways it is if the goal is not to be sentenced within a reasonable amount of time of conviction and with the prospect that it very well could lead to a non-sentence ever if they're going to delay several years to do so. The whole goal of the delay tactic was to push the can further enough down the road so that they would not face any incarceration or otherwise. And in that respect, it is there. He still has 34 felony convictions, nothing to sneeze at.

BLITZER: From a legal standpoint. What do you think Trump's election victory means for the jury's felony conviction against him? Could it potentially be dismissed?

COATES: They would like it to be dismissed, but every prosecutor and the judge will be loath to try to actually get rid of a jury guilty verdict. Remember, it was not even a bench trial where the judge was deciding the case. This was jurors who sat, heard the case for several weeks, deliberated over a course of many days, and ultimately rendered a verdict. That's the way the system is supposed to work.

So, to say that an election could erase all of that would say volumes about how we view the balance of power and the balance of our juries. We honor that system, but certainly the election was really a get out of jail free card for this president-elect.

BLITZER: Does all of this mean that the president of the United States essentially is above the law?

COATES: He's above the sentence. That's really the case. We have to make it more nuanced. The umbrella phrase of above the law has really been about what we discussed in terms of whether or not somebody who is in a vision of power could evade the actual consequences as opposed to an average person. The average person would not be able to say, actually, you know what, my job, which I'm going to get, should preclude me from being convicted or sentenced to the case. This is a president-elect though, a very different world, and it's unprecedented. But it does not send the strongest of messages to suggest that a jury verdict can be done away with, yet he is a president-elect, and we know that there is a hierarchy, the president versus a state conviction.

BLITZER: How realistic is it that Trump could be sentenced in four years after he completes his second term, as the D.A. is now suggesting?

COATES: I think it's such of a low probability as to say that it could be zero. The notion that you would have an incarceration for the type of offense several years from now would suggest that this crime was so serious to suggest they have to be incarcerated. If you can wait four years to do so, pending everything about your everyday life, it would suggest that it was not actually in the court's mind to sentence in the long run.

Also, think about most sentences are about what you're standing in the community is about, who might be vouching for you, the severity of the crime, and how you have dealt with the society since then.

[18:45:09]

Surely, a president of the United States could make enough choices and decisions to elevate himself in the court's eyes if he was sentenced.

BLITZER: We shall see what happens. It's pretty dramatic.

COATES: It is.

BLITZER: And legally pretty fascinating as well.

COATES: Uh-huh.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Laura, for that.

COATES: Thanks.

BLITZER: And a note to our viewers, you can, of course, see Laura later tonight on her program, Laura Coates live, 11:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

And coming up, we'll have more on a seismic move by Russia today. Vladimir Putin upending key policy on his country's stockpile of nuclear weapons, and what appears to be a direct response to the United States.

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BLITZER: Right now, we're taking a closer look at how Vladimir Putin just lowered the threshold for potentially using nuclear weapons.

[18:50:03]

The move is sending a clear and threatening message to the West, after President Biden gave the green light for Ukraine to strike deeper into Russian territory. CNN's Brian Todd has our report.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vladimir Putin once again rattles his nuclear saber at his enemies.

The Russian president updating his stance on nuclear weapons just a couple of days after President Biden gave Ukraine permission to hit targets deep inside Russia with American made weapons.

Under Putin's new directive, Russia will consider aggression from any non-nuclear country like Ukraine as a joint attack on Russia if there's participation of a nuclear armed country like the U.S. And at that point, according to Putin's spokesperson Russia, quote, reserves the right to use nuclear weapons, even if only conventional weapons are used against Russia.

EVELYN FARKAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE MCCAIN INSTITUTE: Any time the Russian president threatens use of nuclear weapons, it means he's scared because that is like his fallback when he's very nervous.

TODD: Under Putin's new stance Russia could basically use nuclear weapons at any time, since U.S. officials say the Ukrainians in recent days have already used American made long range missiles to strike Russian targets well inside Russia.

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: It will enable the Ukrainians to put at risk airfields and ammunition dumps and fuel depots that will again disrupt the Russians.

TODD: The key question tonight, what are the chances Vladimir Putin really would use nuclear weapons in Ukraine?

TAYLOR: We can't dismiss it, but we have some evidence that he doesn't use it in the past. And we know that he's not suicidal.

FARKAS: There's immediate literal fallout. So there's political fallout in Russia, but also fallout, which strikes Russian troops, Russian civilians.

TODD: Still, at one point during the Ukraine war according to journalist Bob Woodward's new book, "War", President Biden's national security team assessed there was a 50 percent chance Putin would use nuclear weapons on the battlefield in Ukraine.

And CNN's Jim Sciutto reported the U.S. prepared, quote, rigorously for that possibility in late 2022. It would have been the first nuclear attack in war since the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War Two.

Putin's latest nuclear threat, on the heels of Biden's green light for Ukraine to use long range missiles inside Russia, could complicate President-elect Donald Trump's plans to end the Ukraine war quickly after he gets into office.

On the other hand --

FARKAS: I think it strengthens Donald Trumps hand as he enters office because he will have a Ukraine that continues to have a bargaining chip, a Ukraine that can potentially pressure the Russian president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): When asked if the Biden administration's green light for Ukraine to use those long range American made missiles deep inside Russia was an escalation, two analysts, CNN spoke to said that was no escalation compared to how Putin has escalated repeatedly in this war including the move to bring in at least 10,000 North Korean troops to join his side in the fight -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Very worrisome, Brian Todd, thank you very, very much.

And coming up, a live report from Georgia as the man on trial for murdering a 22-year-old nursing student reveals whether he'll testify in his own defense.

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[18:57:44]

BLITZER: Georgia prosecutors have wrapped up their case in a sensational murder trial.

Here's CNN's Rafael Romo.

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RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After three days of at times heart-wrenching, at times graphic testimony, the prosecution rested their case against Jose Ibarra, the man accused in the death of Laken Riley.

Then the judge asked Ibarra if he wanted to testify.

JUDGE: Mr. Barr do you want to testify?

TRANSLATOR: No, sir.

ROMO: Before the defense began calling witnesses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the road that we see --

ROMO: Testimony Tuesday began with prosecutors showing video from the University of Georgia campus safety camera system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would this individual be walking in the direction of the IM Fields?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

ROMO: And detailing over an hour of movements of the man, prosecutors say, is Jose Ibarra on the morning Laken Riley was killed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does he do right there at 7:54?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is ducking down.

ROMO: The man going back and forth around the building until ultimately leaving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What direction is he going now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's going south.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Towards?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The IM Fields.

ROMO: At 9:05 a.m. --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who was that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is Laken Riley.

ROMO: The street camera nearby captured Laken Riley passing by and running further down the trail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What direction is she running?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's running south.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And was that also in the direction of the IM Fields?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is.

ROMO: The prosecution sharing the last text Riley sent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is the text?

SGT. SOPHIE RABOUD, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA POLICE: It says good morning about to go for a run if you're free to talk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did she, in fact call her mother?

RABOUD: She did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At what time?

RABOUB: Nine o' three.

ROMO: Her family openly and audibly weeping.

RABOUB: At 11:47 a.m., incoming text from her mother says, please call me. I'm worried sick about you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that call -- is that text read?

RABOUD: It is not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that text responded to?

RABOUD: It is not.

ROMO: Later, the medical examiner explaining in explicit detail the injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. DiMarco, did you form an opinion as to the cause of death of Laken Riley?

DR. MICHELLE DIMARCO, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION ASSOCIATE MEDICATE EXAMINER: I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is that opinion?

DIMARCO: Her cause of death is the combined effects of blunt force head trauma and asphyxia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is her manner of death?

DIMARCO: Homicide.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMO (on camera): The defense has so far called two witnesses to try and cast doubt on the state's case, but didn't appear to make much headway.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: All right. Rafael Romo, thank you very much.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much for watching.

Before we go, we want to wish a very happy birthday to CNN founder Ted Turner.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.