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U.S. Official: Russia Air Defences May Have Downed Passenger Jet; Trump Names Ambassador To Panama After Threats To Claim Canal; Trump Suggests Canada Should Be 51st U.S. State, Mocks PM Trudeau; Trump To People With Sentences Commuted By Biden: "Go To Hell". U.S. Official: Russian Air Defenses May Have Downed Passenger Jet; Netanyahu Vows To Continue Strikes On Houthis In Yemen; Cases Of Bird Flu Among Animals On The Rise In Western U.S. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 26, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PHIL MATTINGLY: -- swept under the snow and fully buried. Using a transceiver, the man managed to find his brother under the snow by spotting just a couple of his fingers and his gloved hand sticking out. He sustained only minor injuries in the end.

Well, you can follow the show on X at The Lead CNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts. The news continues now in CNN with Wolf Blitzer in the "Situation Room."

[17:00:30]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, a new U.S. assessment that a Russian air defense system may have downed a passenger plane in neighboring Kazakhstan. Standby for an update on the deadly crash as questions swirl about what went wrong and who's to blame.

Also this hour, President-elect Trump leaves a trail of very provocative Christmas Day posts threatening and insulting U.S. Allies. He's tripling down on talk that the U.S. could somehow seize control of Canada, Greenland and the Panama Canal.

Plus, we're tracking the rise in cases of bird flu among animals in the Western U.S. fueling fears it could spread to people and potentially, potentially lead to another pandemic.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

Our top story this hour, new indications that Russia may be responsible for a passenger plane crash that killed at least 38 people on board. CNN's Bianna Golodryga is following the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: As investigators race to determine the cause of the deadly Azerbaijan Airlines plane crash, early indications suggest that a Russian anti-aircraft system may be responsible, a U.S. official told CNN. The aircraft was traveling from the Azerbaijani capital of Baku to the Russian republic of Chechnya when it attempted an emergency landing in Kazakhstan. The crash occurred shortly after Ukraine fired drones nearby at southern Russia, possibly leading Russia's defense systems to inadvertently strike the aircraft, the official said.

Video from onboard the flight shows panicked passengers praying and holes visible in the body of the aircraft. The source of the apparent damage has not been confirmed. The airline and Russia's Federal Air Transport Agency initially told local media the aircraft crashed after it collided with a flock of birds, an account disputed by Ukrainian counter disinformation official Andriy Kovalenko.

Russian state media also reported that the plane had been rerouted due to heavy fog around Chechnya's capital. Several investigations have been opened, including one by a joint commission involving representatives from Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Russia.

PRES. ILHAM ALIYEV, AZERBAIJAN (through translator): The commission's task is to fully investigate the matter, the causes and all the details of the accident and to inform both me and the people of Azerbaijan.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): The Kremlin expressed condolences for those impacted by the crash and urged against speculation into the cause until the investigations have concluded. Of the 67 people on board, 29 survived, including two children, authorities said. In Azerbaijan, a day of mourning was declared for the dead. Some relatives of the survivors remain on edge, waiting for news on loved ones recovery.

FIZULI JALLIOV, FATHER OF SURVIVOR NIZAMI JALLIOV (through translator): I don't know what to say, honestly. I spoke with my son today. Thank God his condition is good. If everything goes well today and tomorrow, he will come to Baku. Let's see what happens next.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): For many families of the at least 38 people killed in the crash, answers can't come soon enough.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA (on camera): Aviation experts have indicated that it's unlikely a bird strike could have caused this crash and that the Russian defense system theory is possible.

Officials recovered the black box at the crash site, which they hope will provide more information. For now, several world leaders have expressed their condolences and voiced their support for a thorough investigation into the matter. Wolf.

BLITZER: Bianna Golodryga reporting for us. Thanks Bianna, very much.

Let's get some more on this from CNN Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann.

Oren, how are U.S. officials looking at this? OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the U.S. has been looking at this virtually since it happened and it took about a day to get this initial indication of what happened here. But a U.S. official tells me or told me earlier today that the early indications are that a Russian anti-aircraft system may well have downed this jet, this passenger aircraft from Azerbaijan Airlines. Now, the official wouldn't say specifically what type it was. There are certainly a number of different Russian systems that have this capability, anything from longer range S300 or S400 missiles to even some shorter range missiles, potentially even something launched off of a shoulder, a surface to air missile like that, especially if the passenger aircraft was lower. So there's a number of different possibilities for what type of system that might be.

[17:05:10]

That perhaps what the U.S. is looking into as it looks first to shore up its own indications of what happened here in second to get more information as these separate investigations continue here. There is of course a precedent for this. That is a Russian system shooting down a passenger airliner and that would be a decade ago, Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, that was shot down by a Russian anti-aircraft missile operated by Russian backed separatists in Eastern Ukraine that shot down a Malaysian Airlines passenger jets. So we have seen this happen before. Russia has, since that day, denied any involvement in the downing of MH17.

Now, as Bianna pointed out, Russia has said a possibility is bird strikes here. But when you look at the pictures of the crash, when you see the holes on the side of the aircraft, that really doesn't seem like a plausible explanation. A bird strike would hit the front of an airplane, the engines, perhaps the leading edge of the wing, not the side of the fuselage and the side of the airplane. So, indications here.

It also was worth noting that at the time of this crash, just hours earlier, there had been a Ukrainian drone attack on southern Russia near Grozny where this flight was initially headed. That perhaps an indication that it was a Russian air defense system that in attempting to take down a drone may well have taken down a passenger airliner, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Oren Liebermann reporting for us. Oren, thank you very much.

I want to bring in our experts on aviation, the military and Russia. I'll start with Miles O'Brien.

Miles, you're an aviation expert. What are the images of the plane's wreckage indicate?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: No question, this was not a bird strike that caused that shrapnel damage to the tail section of that aircraft, Wolf, that is telltale signs of an explosion. And because the metal is bent inward as opposed to outward, we can presume the explosion occurred outside of the aircraft. So that would lead us to a very strong conclusion about a surface to air missile. And that is something you don't need black boxes to tell that story.

BLITZER: General Wesley Clark is with us as well, the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander. General Clark, what's your reaction to the reports that the plane may have been shot down by a Russian anti- aircraft system?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Seems very plausible to me as Miles said, looking at the shrapnel holes and the fuselage. But also, you know, in this environment, air space command and control is very complicated. The Russians may not be very good at it. These are aircraft flying from different countries. Maybe they had a shoot first or weapons free policy at this point.

And so anything that flew, they were going to engage. And so we just don't know. And there's no really -- there's no really expectation that Russia is going to come clean with what actually happened despite the international investigation.

BLITZER: Evelyn Farkas is with us as well, the former assistant secretary of Defense.

Evelyn, the former Soviet Union, as you remember, and Russia, for that matter, have shot down passenger planes before, back in 1978, in 1983, and more recently, as we just heard, the Malaysia Airlines flight flying over Ukraine in 2014. What do you make of these early reports that we're getting right now about what just happened?

EVELYN FARKAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MCCAIN INSTITUTE: Yes, I mean, Wolf, this is similar to the shoot down in 2014 of the civilian aircraft, the Malaysian airliner over Ukrainian airspace that the Russian military and their rebel, you know, accomplices controlled at the time. And what it demonstrates is, frankly, recklessness because both of these, you know, attacks on these aircraft were not intentional, I don't think. You know, both of the aircraft found themselves in the middle of a war. But what's reckless about it is, frankly, that the Russian, you know, civilian air control should have closed off the airspace and the Russians knew very well that there was a hot war going on there at the time. So, it seems to me, again, it's recklessness.

It's not sufficient care about civilians and civilian aircraft.

BLITZER: Miles, as you know, 29 people actually survived this crash. Is that rare?

O'BRIEN: Well, we've seen something similar back in 1989, Wolf. You may recall United Airlines Flight 232 is a DC10. Hydraulic failure, very similar control scenario. The crew desperately trying to control it using differential thrust on the engines of that aircraft after a hydraulic failure. This is all very similar to what we just saw.

And they were able to land in a very dramatic way in Sioux City, Iowa. There were several people killed, but several hundred actually survived. So, it's a testament to the pilots that they were able to save lives in this case. May the pilots rest in peace. Of course, they did not survive. [17:10:12]

They won't tell the tale except via that cockpit voice recorder, but they did a good job doing what they could without control surfaces, without hydraulics, you're not moving the rudder, you're not moving the ailerons, you're just trying to control the direction of the aircraft and its descent with the power on the engines.

BLITZER: General Clark, if the plane was in fact shot down by Russia, what does this say about Putin's control over his own country?

CLARK: Well, it's fragmented and probably not as effective as we would like to think our own control would be in such a case is. It could be that the weapons status wasn't controlled. It could be civilian air traffic control that should have shot down the airspace. But the point is it's a very complicated aerospace environment, and obviously Putin's people are not capable of controlling it. He's focused on delivering ordinance against Ukraine, and that's their primary thing.

They've got area defense and local regional defense against these Ukrainian drone strikes. And if something flies into that space after there's been a strike, you know, it's, Katie, bar the door. They're going to shoot. It's going to be weapons free. And that's apparently what happened.

BLITZER: Evelyn, we're told that officials from Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Russia are working together to investigate. What's Russia's relationship, first of all, with Kazakhstan?

FARKAS: Yes, I mean, Wolf, first of all, this does make Vladimir Putin look weak and it certainly complicates his relations with these countries. Kazakhstan, of course, was part of the former Soviet Union. We all know Vladimir Putin has said publicly he wants to recreate the Soviet empire, that would include Kazakhstan. And foreign minister, Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov has actually said out loud that he does not believe that Kazakhstan is a state. So, Kazakhstan has been nervous about Russia's ambition vis-a-vis, you know, its sovereignty. And so they've tried to keep good relations with us and with the Chinese to balance that dynamic with Russia.

So that's complicated. With Azerbaijan, of course, it was Azerbaijani National Airline aircraft that flew in and experienced this accident. Their pilots were probably Azerbaijani. I don't know that detail.

But for some reason, the pilots didn't land actually in the Russian Republic, they didn't try to land in Grozny in Chechnya, they chose to try -- well, actually crash landed in Kazakhstan. So that's an interesting wrinkle. And the Azerbaijanis and the Russians have been trying to get a little bit closer together, and that's part of a whole another complicated scenario there, Wolf. There's been a war that's been fought for decades now between Armenia and Azerbaijan, two countries there in the Caucasus. Russia used to be on the side with Armenia.

They've been increasingly flexing their muscles and gaining -- trying to gain their independence. That will also be an interesting dynamic when we have our new president, President Trump, because he has been pro Armenian. So it's incredibly complicated right now.

BLITZER: Very complicated indeed.

General Clark, why are commercial planes flying over this area if Russia is actively shooting suspected drones out of the sky?

CLARK: Well, that's a very good question, Wolf. It's simply because Vladimir Putin and the people in the Eurasian Economic Union that Kazakhstan's part of, they haven't shut down the airspace. They just don't have the controls up there to shut it down. They don't want to admit, I suppose, that there is active conflict. They don't want to recognize the threat from Ukraine.

That would be another blow to Vladimir Putin's control over the -- over Russia and the neighboring states. And so for probably for political reasons, they're not shutting it down.

Of course, people will always fly. They assume the airlines are going to be safe. We've got a great record globally in terms of aviation safety. And so, people just assume that governments will take care of them. And in this case, the government didn't.

BLITZER: They certainly didn't. All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

Coming up, we'll have much more on this deadly plane crash. A former U.S. Defense secretary will weigh in on Russia's possible role. Plus, new reaction to Donald Trump's message to inmates whose sentences were commuted by President Biden. He's telling them to, quote, "Go to hell."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:18:18]

BLITZER: President-elect Trump is gearing up for his inauguration 25 days from now by tripling down on his threats to take control of the Panama Canal, Greenland and even Canada. CNN's Alayna Treene is covering it all for us. She's down in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Alayna, what's been the reaction so far from these countries to Trump's comments?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Oh, well, Wolf, they're making very clear that, you know, their countries are not for sale, that the Panama Canal is not for sale.

Look, Donald Trump, if he wanted to move forward with really expanding America's footprint abroad in these ways, it would rival the Louisiana Purchase or the deal that essentially netted Alaska from Russia. But again, it's very unlikely that any of these threats are his calls to try and reclaim or, excuse me, just claim overall some of these territories are not going to happen. For example, he's really taunting Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau over the last several weeks, arguing that he could become a governor and saying that he wants the United States to absorb Canada as the 51st state. Clearly, Justin Trudeau is not going to entertain that, and he hasn't so far as it relates to Greenland, for example, the prime minister of Greenland. And it's a Danish territory, they've said repeatedly that Greenland is not for sale, something that Donald Trump actually first tried to float back in 2019.

They had a very similar message that this is part of Danish territory is not for sale for the United States.

And then on the Panama Canal, we actually heard from Panama's president today, Jose Mulino, who essentially said, look, Panama -- the Panama Canal is not open for negotiation to be sold. But also pushing back on claims that Donald Trump has made that essentially Chinese soldiers are controlling the canal. Trump has really been pointing at this idea that, you know, the U.S. made the Panama Canal. Now he feels like it's being taken advantage of. And that's where this -- a lot of this is coming from.

[17:20:09]

But all of them really either trying not to weigh in and let Donald Trump do his thing on social media or really fervently coming out there and pushing back on what he is saying, saying that none of this is going to happen.

BLITZER: Alayna, what are you hearing about why Trump is so fixated right now on these land acquisitions?

TREENE: Well, it's interesting because as someone like Donald Trump, you know, he's very populist. That is really the core of his America first agenda, but not necessarily isolationist if he actually follows through with some of these moves. But when I've talked to Donald Trump's advisers, including today, about this one, particularly when it relates to the Panama Canal, they said that Donald Trump has actually been fixated on this for months now. He brought this up in an interview over the summer where he said many similar things, that he thought it was a mistake for then President Jimmy Carter to have this treaty with Panama to give them control over the canal despite it being made by Americans.

And also though this idea that he really believes that American ships and vessels are being taken advantage of through this process. I'm told that a lot of these arguments, including not just the pan over the Panama Canal, but his calls about wanting to take over Greenland is because he wants to force these leaders to the negotiating table. One is that, for the Panama Canal example, he wants there to better prices for American ships. He also believes that China is controlling a lot of the ports on the canal. And so that's something that he's really trying to, you know, show strength in his leadership and kind of assert his dominance to bring some of these leaders to the table.

There's also questions of, you know, influence from other countries, the United States, foreign adversaries like China and Russia, how that plays into all of this. But I'm told this is really a negotiating tactic more than it is anything else. Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Alayna, I want you to stay with us. I also want to bring in Republican strategist Lance Trover and Democratic strategist Michael Hardaway.

Lance, officials in these countries have not been receptive to Trump's idea, as we clearly know at all. The Associated Press writes this about the Panama Canal, and I'm quoting now, "experts in both countries are clear. Unless he goes to war with Panama, he, Trump, can't reassert control of the Canal." So why even make these kinds of threats?

LANCE TROVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, look, we're not going to war with Panama or Greenland. I don't think there's any invasions happening anytime soon. I heard what Alayna said. I think that she's right. I think they're negotiating tactics.

He believes there's a price issue that's going on here. But there's one central theme that I hear out of all of this, and that is the Chinese Communist Party because they clearly are taking Panama and Greenland seriously. We know for a fact they do control ports at each end. We know that they have been investing billions and billions of dollars to their belts and roads initiative in Panama. We know that they have tried to buy and build in Greenland.

So, this is really about a national security issue that Donald Trump is talking about. And I think it's one that we should not just brush away that Democrats like to do when he puts something on social media because clearly the Chinese Communist Party are taking these countries seriously. Maybe we should at least take a hard look at what's going on there as well.

BLITZER: Michael Hardaway, Greenland, as you remember, rebuffed Trump during his first term. Canada certainly isn't about to become the first -- 51st state of the United States. So why -- what is Trump trying to accomplish from your perspective?

MICHAEL HARDAWAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, I'm not convinced this is a serious policy doctrine. I think they're just bored ramblings from the 78-year-old man on Christmas. I will say this, he's not yet president, but he really has one good year to get things done that he needs to be done that need to be done. And if he continues down this road of distraction, he won't get those things done. He has to deport these 11 million people that he promised his voters he would deliver.

He has to deliver this multi trillion dollar tax cut to rich people as well that he promised to deliver. That takes a significant amount of political capital. And so, he should be focused on those things versus these other things because I don't think those are actually policy doctrines as much as just rambling social media posts from an old guy on Christmas.

BLITZER: Lance, on another sensitive issue. President Biden, as we all know, commuted the sentences of most people on the federal death row. Trump responded writing this, and I'm quoting him now, "to the 37 most violent criminals who killed, raped and plundered like virtually no one before them, but were just given, incredibly, a pardon by Sleepy Joe Biden, go to hell." This is not a typical Christmas Day message, is it? TROVER: Yes, one of the things that I think Donald Trump speaks like a lot of people speak out in America, and we're talking about child murderers, we're talking about rapists, we're talking about people who walked into a bank and cold blooded shot someone, I mean, it's reprehensible what happened. And frankly, this isn't really about Donald Trump. It's about Joe Biden and his use and misuse. So the pardon we've seen in the last month that he pardoned his own son for 11 years worth of crimes and now has stepped up.

[17:25:05]

And what doesn't make any sense is he says he supports law and order, pardons these 37 people, yet leaves three of them on death row. It makes absolutely no sense. It reopened wounds for these victims' families and families who got no so whatsoever before Joe Biden went and did this two days before Christmas. To me, it's just a pathetic ending to this presidency. January 20th can't get here soon enough.

BLITZER: He didn't pardon them, he commuted their sentences. They're still going to remain in jail probably for the rest of their lives.

TROVER: Yes, but I mean, look, they were sentenced to death. The law here in the United States. And again, these victims' families got no input whatsoever before. Two days before Christmas, Joe Biden, on a whim decided to make a move like this. I just think a solid majority of this country probably agrees with Donald Trump on this.

We're talking about child murderers here. People who walked into a bank cold blooded and just murdered bank tellers aren't nice people we're talking about here.

BLITZER: What do you think, Michael?

HARDAWAY: Look, the reality is that I think Joe Biden as a Catholic just thought the death penalty didn't align with his faith. And so to your point, these people were not pardoned. They're just not going to be killed by the state, but they'll spend the rest of their lives in jail. And I think that is the right thing to do. And certainly this was a personal decision for him based on his faith and I respect that.

BLITZER: Alayna, does a move like this from President Biden play into the hands -- into Trump's hands for that matter, in wanting to be seen as a tough president?

TREENE: I think it could. And Donald Trump has been very clear that as soon as Joe Biden made this announcement about commuting these 37 different inmates sentences, he said that he is going to vigorously pursue capital punishment once he is in office. And we've seen this play out. I mean it's actually reminds me of when Joe Biden, it's a very different case, but he pardoned his own son. It kind of opened the door for, you know, allowing Donald Trump to maybe build up more goodwill for some of the pardons that he wants, including his promise to pardon many people who were convicted of crimes for their role in the Capitol attack on January 6th.

But all to say, I think Donald Trump will continue to use things like this to try and bolster some of his agenda items, particularly as it will relate to pardons but also to capital punishment and how he's going to move forward with any sort of policy on that.

BLITZER: All right, guys, thank you very, very much. An important issue indeed.

Up next, former Trump Defense Secretary, Mark Esper, on indications that Russia may be responsible for that deadly Azerbaijan airlines crash. And new chaos in the Middle east right now as Israel unleashes strikes in Yemen. We'll have the latest on that and efforts to try to secure a ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:41]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Tonight, investigations are underway into the deadly crash of an Azerbaijan Airlines passenger plane. This is video of the plane as it falls from the sky and crashes into the ground. A U.S. official revealing there are early indications that a Russian anti-aircraft system may have downed the jet. Joining us now, the former Trump Defense Secretary Mark Esper, who's now a CNN global affairs analyst and our political commentator. Mr. Secretary, thanks for joining us. First of all, what do you make of these early reports that the plane may have been shot down by a Russian anti-aircraft system?

MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, circumstantially it looks like that is the case. The Azeri officials believe so as well. I think we've all seen the pictures of holes in the fuselage of the plane on the tail section and whatnot. There have been actually reports from the passengers on the plane that they heard explosions and saw stuff enter the cabin. And the air defense system, the Pantsir fires, which is believed to be what Russians used, fires fragmentation warheads for both missiles and automatic cannon.

So my guess would be it's one of those. Somebody got anxious because there had been a lot of drone attacks recently in the Grozny area of southern Russia and they took a shot at this aircraft. And look, we -- we've seen this before, both, of course, any situations you'll recall, 2014, Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down over Ukraine by the Russians. Over 200 people died.

And then in January 2020, Iranians, after the United States struck Qasem Soleimani, shot down a Ukrainian airliner and killed 180 some people. So this is what happens in conflicts and the danger to commercial airliners.

BLITZER: Ukraine's foreign minister says that a Russian missile actually passed Moldovan and Romanian airspace. He says it reminds everyone that Russia not only threatens Ukraine. Given that and the Azerbaijan plane crash, first of all, do you agree?

ESPER: Well, Russia does threaten NATO members, particularly on the border of Russia. So the NATO members most concerned about Russian aggression, of course are the Baltic States, Poland and then others. And we know that Russia has been conducting a form of hybrid or information warfare in some of those states for a while, trying to appeal to Russian speaking ethnic minorities in those countries.

So there is a concern that Ukraine, in my view, Ukraine is the -- the first fight in this era of global great power competition, but it's not the last. And that's why I and others believe that we need to check Vladimir Putin here in Ukraine or else he may go next to Moldova. We know that through a political campaign he's managed to wrest the state of Georgia, the country of Georgia into his orbit, more so. But the Baltic States and others on the eastern flank are very concerned.

BLITZER: That's true. On Christmas Day, as you know, Russia actually bombarded Ukraine's power grid, leaving half a million Ukrainian homes in Kharkiv and elsewhere without heat. It's cold there, it's winter. President Biden said in a statement, and I'm quoting him now, the United States and the international community must continue to stand with Ukraine until it triumphs over Russia's aggression. Mr. Secretary, are you troubled by the upcoming administration's plans on Ukraine, the Trump administration's plans when it comes to Ukraine?

[17:35:06]

ESPER: Well, first of all, it was a very devastating attack against Ukraine's energy sector. I think 70 some ballistic missiles and 100 plus drones. And clearly, Vladimir Putin's trying to do two things. First of all, break the will of the Ukrainian people and secondly, strengthen his position going into whatever negotiations may come up. And that's where I do get concerned. It's -- it's unclear exactly what the -- the Trump administration is going to put on the table.

The concern is that it will largely disadvantage the Ukrainians, forcing them to concede territory, maybe reduce the size of their military and -- and -- and forswear everyone to join NATO. But I -- I find that hard to believe Ukrainians would accept that. And of course, Vladimir Putin is on the move. He's had momentum now over the last several months. So I don't think he's going to take anything less than those things.

So I am concerned about these things. I think we need to continue to provide Ukraine arms and ammunition. They need to get to the best position possible when we come to negotiations. But I think that's going to largely rest with the Europeans. They need to do more to increase the weapons and munitions going into Ukraine, and we really haven't seen that yet.

BLITZER: Amidst all of this, Mr. Secretary, President-elect Trump has been talking a lot about potentially expanding U.S. territory. He's talked about absorbing Canada and Greenland. Now he's suggesting taking control of the Panama Canal, just like he did in his first term. Talked about it. You worked under Trump. Is this something that he's seriously considering?

ESPER: Well, we don't know. I think the best assessment is that it's a negotiating tactic. Whether it's he's trying to reduce shipping rates in the Panama Canal or just somehow interested in acquiring Greenland, I don't know. But to me, the common thread that I think is an important one are Chinese pursuing interests in both Greenland and Panama. We know that in Greenland, for example, it's believed to include nearly a quarter of the world's strategic reserves of rare earth materials, lithium, graphite, things like that. The Chinese for years have been trying to get in there, to set up mines and to mine that and to continue to dominate those sectors.

And likewise in Panama, we know the five ports down there, they control two of them. And we know, or at least I believe, that there are government people down there collecting data on shipping, monitoring traffic, definitely espionage. We should be very concerned about Chinese president's -- presence in Panama, and of course, not just Panama, but all of Latin America.

BLITZER: Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper, thanks as usual for joining us.

ESPER: Thank you.

BLITZER: And just ahead, negotiators in the Middle East are trying to inch closer and closer to a ceasefire and hostage deal. We'll discuss a key sticking point. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:41:53]

BLITZER: You're looking at chaotic scenes at an airport in Yemen earlier today after Israeli airstrikes killed at least three people that according to officials there. Another Israeli strike in western Yemen killed one person. Israel's military says it was targeting Houthi terrorists. Joining us now is CNN political and global affairs analyst Barak Ravid. He's also an Axios politics and foreign policy reporter. Barak, thanks for joining us. First of all, what can you tell us about these Israeli strikes in Yemen?

BARAK RAVID, CNN FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Hi Wolf. This was the fourth time over the last year that Israel conducted such a complicated and long range airstrike in Yemen. Which were those four airstrikes were the, you know, I don't think ever in history before Israeli air force conducted such a long range strike. And I think it tells you a lot about where the Gaza war is because this is an offshoot of the Gaza war. We saw the Lebanese front close down. We saw the Iranian front sort of close down. We saw the Iraqi front sort of close down. And the Yemeni front is the only one that is still burning. And it's not only that it's burning, it's getting worse and worse by the day with the Houthis firing more and more ballistic missiles at Israel and the Israelis conducting more and more airstrikes in Yemen.

BLITZER: Almost every night over the past few days, I take it. Air sirens have gone off in Tel Aviv and elsewhere in central Israel because of these airstrikes from the Houthis in Yemen, is that right?

RAVID: Yes. And I think what the Houthis realized is that it doesn't really matter if they hit anything. But once they launch every day or every other day in the middle of the night, a rocket ballistic missile towards Israel, it basically turns off the sirens in half of the country and sends millions of Israelis into safe rooms and bomb shelters in the middle of the night.

And for them, this is a good enough achievement. They don't even need to hit anything because most of those missiles are either intercepted, they don't really hit anything. But the fear and the uncertainty and the terror they create in Israeli population is enough of an achievement for the Houthis. When, on the other hand, when the Israelis strike in Yemen, you know, it causes a lot of damages to the Houthis, but not enough to deter them from continuing those rocket launches towards Israel.

BLITZER: And Prime Minister Netanyahu keeps saying that he wants Israel to do to the Houthis in Yemen what it did to Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza. Another sensitive issue I want to get your thoughts on, Barak, before I let you go. Five journalists were killed by an Israeli strike in Gaza. Israel says four of the men were, quote, Islamic Jihad operatives posing as journalists. Are you hearing any backlash from the IDF?

[17:44:57]

RAVID: The -- the IDF is still sticking to its version of the events. I don't have any information that can either verify what the IDF is saying or -- or not. And I think this is a case of it -- it tells you a lot about where the war is right now, because I think that when you speak to people inside the IDF, they tell you that they feel that this -- that they achieved almost everything they wanted to in this war militarily. And everything you see right now is remnants of Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Gaza, but not something that really dramatically changes the picture.

And it brings us back to the -- to the most crucial point here, that in order to end this war, you need a hostage deal. And the IDF wants this hostage deal very much, even in the cost of stopping the war. The Israeli government, on the other hand, for now, refuses to end the war.

BLITZER: So where do the negotiations for a ceasefire and hostage deal stand right now?

RAVID: Well, I think the -- the -- the Israeli delegation came back from Doha for consultations. What I hear from Israeli officials that negotiations didn't -- didn't explode, but they're definitely stuck, meaning that both parties actually want a deal. But the gaps are so big that in order for -- to -- to bridge them, very big political decisions need to be made. And it doesn't seem that on either side, they're ready to make those decisions. And I think that it creates both among Israeli negotiators and also people in the Biden administration that are still trying to push this thing. They're very skeptical of whether you can get any deal before Biden leaves office on January 20th.

BLITZER: All right, Barak Ravid, always appreciate your reporting. Thank you very much. Coming up, half of the big cats at a Washington State animal sanctuary are dead after contracting bird flu. We'll ask an expert about the risks of the virus spreading to humans. That's coming up next.

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[17:51:54]

BLITZER: Cases of bird flu among animals are on the rise in Washington State. A big cat sanctuary says they've lost 20 animals over the past few weeks to the virus while bird flu detected in a brand of natural cat food was responsible for killing a house cat in Oregon, the virus can be fatal if it's passed on to humans. Dr. Ashish Jha is joining us right now. He's the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health and the former White House COVID-19 response coordinator under President Biden. Dr. Jha, thanks so much for joining us. First of all, how serious is this threat from bird flu? Could it become as serious, God forbid, as COVID?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, first of all, Wolf, thanks for having me back. You know, bird flu is a virus that we have been watching for many, many years, something that has concerned us because it can be quite serious among humans. Thankfully, we have not seen human to human transmission, not in any sustained way. As long as we keep it that way, I think the risk of the American people remain low. But there is so much virus spreading around right now among animals that we've got to be on the lookout for the virus's ability to begin to spread among people.

BLITZER: So far, no cases have been reported in the United States that spread person to person. But how easily could bird flu mutate and become infectious among humans?

JHA: Well, that's -- that's the million dollar question. And -- and I think the answer is the more chances we give this virus to learn how to do that, the higher the likely, right? So right now there are so many animals. We've got cows, we've got cats, as you mentioned. We've got a whole host of other animals that are getting infected with this virus. We really do have to put it out because eventually the virus will figure out how to spread more effectively among humans. And we've got to do something about it before it gets there.

BLITZER: Almost all of the 65 cases reported this year here in the United States were on poultry farms or dairy farms. But for the rest of us, what should we do to avoid getting bird flu?

JHA: Well, what we know is that bird flu, avian influenza, is now in the unpasteurized milk supply. What I mean is that the raw milk that comes out of cows. So the number one thing Americans need to be doing is making sure their milk is pasteurized. The stuff you get in grocery stores is always pasteurized. So that's critical. Avoiding raw meat, obviously, you can see it in raw beef, you can get it in raw turkey. So those are other things. Cooking your meat well can also really make a big difference.

To me those are the most important things most Americans should be doing. Also, if you see a sick bird out in the yard, don't touch it. Don't -- don't let your pets play with it. Those are also things that are another way for the virus to spread.

BLITZER: As you know, Dr. Jha, there is now a voluntary recall of the pet food involved in the case of the pet cat that died in Oregon. Are pets at risk of getting bird flu right now? And could pets transmit bird flu to humans?

[17:54:57]

JHA: Well, first of all, we are seeing a lot of spread among cats. Most of that has been on farms, the big cats at that wildlife sanctuary that you mentioned. And then unfortunately, this one domestic cat, not as much spread among dogs so far thankfully. As a dog owner, I'm -- I'm thankful for that. But the truth is that we are seeing it among pets. Have not seen any cases of pets to human transmission so far. But again, we've got to keep this away from pets as much as possible for their sake and for ours.

BLITZER: Good point. Dr. Ashish Jha, thank you so much for your expertise. We always appreciate it.

And coming up, why did a passenger plane veer hundreds of miles off course before crashing in Kazakhstan and killing dozens of people? We're going to bring you the latest on the deadly plane crash, that's next.

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BLITZER: Happening now, new indications about why a passenger plane crashed in flames on Christmas Day. We're breaking down a U.S. assessment that Russian anti-aircraft defenses may have shot it down.

Also tonight, why some international students are now being urged to return to campuses in this country before, before President-elect Trump's inauguration.

[18:00:05]

And was a landmark NFL streaming event a big hit with help from Beyonce --