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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Trump Slams CO Gov. While Fearmongering About Migrants; Vance Refuses Five Times To Say If Trump Lost 2020 Election; Trump Campaign: New Movie "Pure Fiction... Malicious Defamation." Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 11, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Back in North Carolina, election officials are preparing for the litigation over these ballots to ramp up, especially if former President Trump is behind in the vote count.
PAUL COX, GENERAL COUNSEL, NC STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS: If you have close elections, I think both major parties are lawyered up and they're ready to go to court if they -- if they feel like there's something to be gained strategically from it.
REID (on camera): How likely do you think it is that this -- the election, anything related North Carolina will end up in court?
COX: I think it depends on how close it is. And that's always the case.
REID (voice-over): Paula Reid. CNN. Raleigh, North Carolina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Rocky-melon lies Donald Trump in Aurora, Colorado, the major target of his gross exaggerations and falsehoods about migrants and crime. He says he's going to liberate the state.
The Governor is here with his response to that.
And Senator J.D. Vance, given five chances to tell the truth about the 2020 election. Instead, chooses to cater to a party of one. We've got the tape.
In the movie that Trump doesn't want you to see, what is so controversial about "The Apprentice?" I'll ask the Director himself, tonight.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Aurora, Colorado was overwhelmed by outsiders today, not by hordes of migrants in this country illegally, as Donald Trump would have you believe, but rather by the former President and his allies pushing what even the city's Republican mayor has said are grossly exaggerated stories.
Trump has been fixated on claiming that a Denver suburb is being overrun by violent Venezuelan gangs, making it almost a centerpiece of his increasingly dark message, in the closing days of this 2024 race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: What the hell happened to Aurora?
I will rescue Aurora and every town that has been invaded and conquered.
Going to get them the hell out of our country.
These are stone-cold killers.
Enemy from within, all the scum that we have to deal with that hate our country. That's a bigger enemy than China and Russia.
Very, very, very sick with highly contagious disease, and they're let into our country to infect our country.
We will not be conquered. We will not be conquered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A bigger enemy than China and Russia.
While there, Trump also promised to liberate Colorado, and announced Operation Aurora, a plan to expedite the removal of undocumented gang members.
But when you look at the numbers, the stats do not back up what we're hearing from him. Local leaders actually say Aurora has gotten safer. And the evidence shows that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S. citizens, and that they may help build communities up, attracting new jobs, not stealing them, as we so often hear.
Now, we have heard real concerns about what happens when an influx of migrants is added to a community's infrastructure, and what that means.
But that's not what Donald Trump is saying here. Instead, he has taken a kernel of the truth, and turned isolated incidents, at a handful of apartment complexes, into a portrait of a city that is overrun by violent criminals here illegally, at times, even likening it to a war zone.
It's a similar playbook to the one that he used when talking about Springfield, Ohio, just a few weeks ago, when Trump was baselessly claiming that Haitian migrants there were eating people's pets. It was a single story that turned out to not be true.
In Colorado, today, Trump not only tried to replicate the fearmongering about immigration that helped get him into the White House in 2016, he also went after the state's Democratic governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Your weak and ineffective governor, he's a totally ineffective guy. His name is Jared Polis.
He's not a good one.
He's a coward. He's a fraud.
He's pathetic.
If your weak and ineffective governor Jared Polis was doing his job, he would be leading the fight to get these gangs and thugs the hell out of Colorado now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And my source tonight is the Democratic governor of Colorado, Jared Polis.
Great to have you, Governor.
I'll get to what Trump said about you in a moment. But I do want to talk about the issues first, and what your response is to the former President saying, Aurora is not the same as it was a few months ago, that he will quote, "Rescue" it.
I mean, does Aurora need to be rescued, in your view?
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Well, I mean, it's not the same in that it's safer than it's ever been. Crime is down 31 percent over the last two years.
Aurora is an incredible city. It's our third largest city, over 400,000 people. We have Stanley Marketplace. We have Cherry Creek State Park. It's a great place to live, to raise a family. And it's only gotten safer.
So, the Aurora he's talking about is one that the people of Colorado have never heard of.
[21:05:00]
COLLINS: Well, and he's saying that he's going to have a federal program to expedite the removal of undocumented gang members, if reelected. He says he's going to invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, which I did some digging. It's actually only been used three times ever, all three times during times of war.
Does that have any merit, in your view?
POLIS: Well, again, I -- no, I -- I don't think anybody's done that research into the 1780s yet.
But I can tell you that if somebody commits a crime, and they're here illegally, of course, we want them deported. We don't have an extradition treaty with Venezuela. So, generally, we have to hold them in our prisons. But of course, if somebody who's here illegally commits a crime, they should be out.
COLLINS: Trump is someone, who takes something that has maybe a kernel of truth to it, and sensationalizes it and turns it into what we've seen happen with Aurora.
And I think a question that people have though is, what can you, as governor, and authorities in Colorado, do, with federal law enforcement, to help crack down on what is not the issue that Trump is making it out to be, but is still an issue that we've seen happen, at apartment complexes in Aurora, even if it's more isolated than it seems?
POLIS: So, from the state perspective, I've of course, met with ICE, and the FBI, both of them at field offices in our state, Aurora, the Mayor. Really, everybody has the same interest in getting rid of any criminal activity that occurs.
And I think what Aurora faced was absentee landlords that let their buildings become dilapidated. They actually closed one, and garbage piled up in the alley. Again, unrelated to any of this crazy stuff they're talking about. But there were people living in unsanitary conditions, and it's my understanding that the building was closed.
So, again, the city that Donald Trump is talking about is not the city any of us know here.
I was in Aurora this morning. I'm there all the time. It's a great city, great town. And as I said, crime has been down a lot, over the last two years. And there could be a number of factors of that. Some people say that because immigrants are less likely to commit crimes, that the fact that there's more immigrants is one of the reasons that crime went down. I don't know if that's the reason.
We've also invested in law enforcement, and we've been -- and prosecuting auto theft, and that's one of the main categories of crime that is down now about a third over the last two years.
COLLINS: Were you surprised that Trump came to Aurora, but didn't actually visit this neighborhood that he has been fixated on for months?
POLIS: Look, and Aurora is a huge city. He just came, visited a hotel and left, as far as I know. I would have loved to show him around Aurora and take him to our beautiful reservoir, or any of our great KoreaTown. We have a great -- I would have loved going out to Ethiopian cuisine with him. Aurora is a wonderful town. He didn't really get to see it. I think he just went to a hotel, did an event there, and left. And it's unfortunate, because obviously, he didn't really get to experience the Colorado that we all love.
COLLINS: Do you want to see Vice President Harris come?
POLIS: Sure. Of course. We invite everybody.
And again, I was hoping that the former President would have -- would have wanted to see more of the city, so he could understand that what he was saying about it was inaccurate.
We love visitors of all kinds. And the Denver Airport, a lot of folks don't know this, it's right adjacent to Aurora. So, if you fly into the Denver Airport, you're like, two or three minutes from Aurora.
COLLINS: Yes.
POLIS: And that's the great growing city, over 400,000 people. And I encourage everybody to visit.
COLLINS: I had a college roommate from Greeley, who spent a lot of time there.
But Governor, beyond what Trump has been saying and his lies, because that's what they are, there are real issues.
And when you look into the numbers, there's about 40,000 Venezuelans that have migrated to Colorado, in just the last two years alone. And when you look at the census data, it shows 5 percent of the population in the 6th Congressional District there, which includes Aurora, as you know, immigrated in just the last year.
Has that put a strain on local resources?
POLIS: Well, look, I mean, this is one of the reasons I'm so excited about Kamala Harris. I mean, she's a candidate that has a plan to solve the border crisis, wants to have border security, wants to create a way to make sure that people are able to work legally rather than illegally.
Donald Trump has stood in the way of fixing our border every step of the way. There was a bipartisan plan to add border security agents, to have high tech, to expedite the asylum claims. He blocked it even though it had a strong bipartisan majority. Conservative Republicans, Democrats, said, Look, let's roll up our sleeves and get it done.
So, I have confidence that Kamala Harris will fix and improve the border situation. And I know that Donald Trump will make it worse.
COLLINS: When she was asked the other day if there was anything that she would have done differently from Biden. She said not a thing that would come to mind.
Do you think, on immigration, she should have said, Yes, that she would have handled things differently had she been President?
POLIS: Well, look, I mean, this is a totally different person. So, I'm excited by Kamala Harris. I mean, I think Joe Biden did a fine job as president. There's many things I agree with him on, and many I disagree with him on. But I'm very excited by what Kamala Harris brings.
And when she talks about the opportunity economy, which talks about small businesses, that's something that I'm sure Joe Biden might like, but it's not who he is. It's not what he talks about. He talks about factories and building stuff, and God bless him for it.
[21:10:00]
But Kamala Harris is talking about the future, and she's the change candidate we need, rather than returning to a former President, who had a very mixed record as president, including policies that led to rapid inflation and slower economic growth.
COLLINS: But do you think she should have answered that question differently then? Because you're a governor who's had to deal with immigration in your state?
POLIS: Well, and look, I mean, I think it's -- it's, look, she was probably asked it, and it's hard to think of things on the spot. But there's going to be many differences between Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, because it's a totally different person. It will be a totally different team.
I think, again, Joe Biden did a great job as a transition to help lead the way for a president that's future-oriented, that embraces the opportunity economy and small business, will take on the border security issue and solve it. She's a prosecutor. She's put criminals behind bars. And that's something that is a great experience for a country that's yearning for a president that will help make us safer.
COLLINS: Listening to Trump's speech, in Aurora, today, it was incredibly personal about you. I mean, he attacked you repeatedly. He called you a coward, a fraud. He said you were ineffective. He said, at one part, these towns, I'm quoting him, he said, these towns have been conquered. And he said, "Explain that to your governor, he doesn't have a clue."
What is your response to what the former President said about you?
POLIS: Well, I'm glad he was talking about me, because he's not running against me. He's running against Kamala Harris. So look, I have broad shoulders. And the more lies and attacks he wants to say about me, the better, because I'm not on the ballot. So, I'm glad to distract him however I can.
And obviously, again, I love Aurora. I was there this morning, at Stanley Marketplace. It's an incredible town. I take my kids there all the time. We go shopping at H Mart. We eat in the restaurants. It's a great town for raising a family, for growing a business, for retiring in. And if he doesn't see it. Again, I'm just glad he's attacking me, because I'm not on the ballot.
COLLINS: Well, and you know what I was thinking about listening to it, is he was using the same terms to attack you that he also used to attack a popular Republican governor in Georgia. I mean, he called Brian Kemp, also, weak and ineffective.
And it's just, it wasn't even just to you. You're a Democrat, obviously, and you've criticized him. But it's, he's also said the same thing about governors in his own party.
POLIS: Yes, look, I don't know if it's, you know, some say it's cognitive decline, whatever -- whatever it is. But, yes, he just, you know?
But the more he's distracted, and attacking people like Governor Kemp or me, whether they're Republican or Democrat, maybe he's forgotten who he's running against. And I think that's great. Because I support Kamala Harris. I think she'll be a great president.
So, let him attack all these other people, and try to settle all these grudges he has. And I don't think that's what the American people want.
COLLINS: Colorado governor, Jared Polis, thank you for your time tonight.
POLIS: Thank you.
COLLINS: As you heard the Governor mention there, crime is actually down in Aurora, a trend that we're actually seeing in most cities, in the U.S., right now.
But how this apartment complex has now become a national battleground, does show the former President's ability to bend the truth until it fits his political agenda and is no longer true.
What he describes is a full-blown invasion looks like this, a single viral video, from a single apartment complex. Yes, you are seeing footage of men carrying guns, walking down hallways, in one case, kicking open a door. The building's owner claimed that they couldn't maintain the building because Venezuelan gangs had taken over.
That's what had caught the attention of Donald Trump and his supporters, who don't mention where the city say they were put -- the city says it was, pushing back, telling the landlord to make improvements at that building. Local police rejected the idea that gangs had actually taken over any of the buildings.
Those were aspects that did not go mentioned in Trump's speech today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Because in Aurora, multiple apartment complexes have been taken over by the savage Venezuela prison gang known as Tren de Aragua.
They got their way into an apartment building. They threatened the tenants at gunpoint.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I'm joined now by CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.
And Brian, can you just walk us through what actually happened here? Because this is the phenomenon that we see over and over again.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST, AUTHOR, "NETWORK OF LIES": Yes.
COLLINS: Where, there is some truth to it. But then it's so wildly blown up by Trump that it's not an accurate depiction.
STELTER: Yes, the video you just showed is real. It's from an apartment complex. There was real crime happening there. That video was shared, and then broadcast widely, across right-wing media, across Fox News shows. And from that kernel of truth has become this lie about the entire city being a war zone.
From all the accounts of the Republican mayor of Aurora, and other local officials, the situation at those apartment complexes is out of control. They're basically blaming a slumlord landlord who lives out of state. The landlord says it's the city's fault.
The point is, it's under control now. There have been number of -- numerous arrests of some of the people seen in that video. So, it's under control. But that one viral video, promoted by conservative media, is what attracted Trump's attention.
And I think what's so striking here is that every time I turn on cable news, I hear about the pundits saying that this is all about the economy, the election is all about the economy.
[21:15:00]
Well, if you listen to Donald Trump's events, he doesn't think this election is all about the economy. He thinks it's about immigration, because he's fearmongering about immigration every chance he gets.
COLLINS: Well, and it worked for him in 2016. It was actually really helpful in getting him in the White House.
STELTER: Right.
COLLINS: But this isn't just an isolated incident. I mean, if you look at this?
STELTER: Right.
COLLINS: You look at what happened with Springfield, Ohio, where real people live, and real people are impacted by something like this.
STELTER: And we can't ignore the racist nature of these appeals. Yes, there is always a kernel of truth. But Trump today posted a picture of Hispanic men with face tattoos, and said, These are going to be your apartment managers if Kamala Harris is elected. That's a racist appeal.
Every American, who ever took high school history class, knows that when you're talking about vermin? When you're talking about bloodlines? When you're talking about people being conquered? Trump promising today to liberate Colorado? This sounds like Nazi rhetoric. This sounds like fascist rhetoric. It sounds like white supremacist rhetoric.
And just because Donald Trump is not a Nazi doesn't mean there's not an echo of history here. I just think we have to be clear about the racist nature of the appeals that we're hearing.
COLLINS: But it doesn't -- sometimes, his supporters, who see this and believe this, that doesn't mean -- they take what he says at face value and they believe that.
STELTER: Because they'll never visit Aurora. And that's OK.
But at the baseline, immigration is about fear. This topic, at least the way Trump talks about it, it's about fear. It's about fear of change. It's about fear of the other.
And I think the more that we understand the root of the appeal, the more we can unpack it, the more we can try to replace some of the fictions with facts.
Because, as you just said, with the Governor, there are real challenges in a diversifying, multicultural America.
For two generate -- two -- what is it? Two centuries? White Christian Americans controlled the table in this country. Now, White Christian Americans just have one seat, and the table's being shared.
People like me are now sharing the table with lots of other people. It's a beautiful thing. But it's also scary to a lot of Americans. And the more that we understand how Trump is exploiting that, I think the better people can respond.
COLLINS: Brian Stelter, thank you for being here.
STELTER: Good to see you.
COLLINS: Up next. We have new reporting on the Trump campaign's unprecedented request for new security, including military aircraft that can shoot down surface-to-air missiles. Why they're asking for those now?
And the Republican vice presidential nominee was given five chances to say that Yes, Trump did lose the 2020 election. He did not take those.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST OF "THE INTERVIEW," THE NEW YORK TIMES: Senator, yes or no?
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: OK. GARCIA-NAVARRO: Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
VANCE: Let me ask you a question.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm going to ask you again. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: In a new interview with The New York Times, Senator J.D. Vance, once again, repeatedly refused to answer that question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA-NAVARRO: In the debate, you were asked to clarify if you believe Trump lost the 2020 election.
Do you believe he lost the 2020 election?
VANCE: I think that Donald Trump and I have both raised a number of issues with the 2020 election. But we're focused on the future.
I think there's an obsession here, with focusing on 2020. I'm much more worried about what happened after 2020, which is a wide open border, groceries that are unaffordable. And look--
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Senator, yes or no?
VANCE: OK.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
VANCE: Let me ask you a question. Is it OK that big technology companies censored the Hunter Biden laptop story, which independent analysis have said it cost Donald Trump millions of votes?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Senator Vance, I'm going to ask you again. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
VANCE: Did big technology companies censor a story that independent studies have suggested would have cost Trump millions of votes?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Senator Vance.
VANCE: I think that's the question.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm going to ask you again. Did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
VANCE: And I've answered your question with another question. You answer my question, and I'll answer yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: It was quite a moment. And in all, when that interview was finished, Trump's running mate refused to answer Lulu Garcia-Navarro's question, a total of five times.
My political sources are here at the table with me.
And Mayor de Blasio. When you -- when you hear that, obviously it's a bit of a Catch 2020 -- a Catch-22 because of J.D. -- maybe a Catch 2020.
BILL DE BLASIO, (D) FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Yes, 2020.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: I want to start a new phrase.
Because if he says, Yes, he's going to anger his boss.
But KFILE did some reporting. I mean, there was a point where J.D. Vance did seem to acknowledge that, yes, Biden had legitimately won the election, long before he was the running mate.
DE BLASIO: Look, I think the average American looks at that and says, That's just hypocrisy. You're asked the question, 12 different ways. You can't answer. But the thing about J.D. Vance is he's not trying to hide his hypocrisy.
And I got to be honest with you, as a Democrat, it worries me when he pivots to immigration, for example, and says, Let's not talk about the past, let's talk about now. Because that's the kind of issue that we're not doing enough to address.
So, I think relitigating 2020 isn't getting us anywhere. His obvious disingenuousness is not hurting him that much. What was hurting him before was when he said really extreme things about human beings and their lives, like the cat ladies comment, for example.
But this, bluntly, I don't see a lot of electoral ramification. I think he is wisely recognizing that the Democrats have a vulnerability on some of the current issues, and he's just pivoting back to it. And we better start answering that better.
COLLINS: Well, if he -- if he did acknowledge it? Doug is our Republican at the table.
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes.
COLLINS: I mean, they would basically be acknowledging that Republican voters have been lied to, for four years, if he said, Yes, Biden did win. Because that's something that Trump himself, he'll say, Oh, I lost by a whisker, and then he'll say, I was being sarcastic, like Trump won't even say it.
[21:25:00] HEYE: Sure. And if you look at the arc of Republican history, over the past several years, it's you're able to go after Donald Trump on very specific issues that are not the core Donald Trump issues.
So, you can't talk about the wall that wasn't really built. You can't really go after Donald Trump or disagree with him on 2020. Some will, but they're in very safe districts, or in swing districts where they need to -- where they need to win, in November, as opposed to just worrying about their primary.
But that's because Donald Trump doesn't give points. He only takes them away one at a time. That's true, if you're Donald Trump's vice presidential nominee. That's true, if you're Donald Trump's Vice President, as we've learned. And so, it's not just about what happened in 2020. It's what happened in 2021 as well.
But to the Mayor's point, this isn't what voters are focused on. And J.D. Vance knows that. It's why -- I don't know why they did this interview. As a staffer, I wouldn't have scheduled it. But he knows when this is asked, pivot away to something. And that's what they're going to do for the rest of the campaign.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, Vance does a lot of interviews, and so that might speak to just their strategy of going everywhere.
But Carly, on this point, when you look at that, listening to that answer made me think of something that J.D. Vance just said tonight, when he was in Georgia, taking questions about a 2024, and what the Trump administration would look like, including what he thinks is the second most important job in that administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: The most important person in government after the president, it's not me, and it's not even, you know, it's not the staff members. The most important person in government, I think, after the president, for this cycle, is going to be the attorney general, sir. Because we really do have to clean house.
And that's one of the things I help out with on the transition. Obviously, we're thinking about -- you know, I'm a very superstitious guy, so I don't like to think that much about what happens after we win. I'm focused on winning. But you've got to do a little bit of that work beforehand. The most important thing, we're going to have an attorney general who serves the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, that made me think of Bill Barr, who came out in December 2020, and was one of the most prominent people in Trump's administration, to say, The election lies are just that. They're lies. There's no evidence. He chased down all the rabbit holes.
That person, there would not be a Bill Barr in a second Trump term.
CARLY COOPERMAN, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER, CEO, SCHOEN COOPERMAN RESEARCH: No, not at all. I mean, Trump chose Vance because he was looking to have a vice presidential nominee that was going to be loyal to him, without fail. Vance is going to do that. There's no reason for Vance to do anything but go along with what Trump is saying.
And as a result, you've got 60 percent of the Republican Party that believes that Trump won in 2020, and close to a third of the electorate just thought something was illegitimate in the election. And so, from Trump's perspective, this -- by continuing to talk about it, like this is going to get people to turn out, in terms of his base, and Vance has nothing to lose on this.
COLLINS: Yes. Well, and something -- it's just remarkable, though, that that is the fact and the reality that -- the someone denying reality does not cost them anything.
The other part about this today is look at what is, you know, we've been talking about Bob Woodward's new book that's coming out. And in it, he has a quote from Trump's handpicked Joint Chiefs Chairman, General Mark Milley, who obviously made a veiled reference to Trump in his retirement speech about a dictator, not serving one.
This is how he's quoted in Bob Woodward's book, calling Trump, "The most dangerous person ever." He says, "I had suspicions when I talked to you about his mental decline and so forth, but now I realize he's a total fascist. He is now the most dangerous person to this country... a fascist to the core."
I mean, in a normal world, the former Joint Chiefs Chairman that that President handpicked saying that, would be the lead of every show, the headline of every newspaper. And now, it's just a factor into all of this.
DE BLASIO: I have to say. First of all, Mark Milley is an extraordinary person. I worked very closely with him during the COVID crisis.
And he's someone who knows his history, when he's talking about fascism. It's because his own dad fought in World War II. It's personal to him when he talks about this. And I think it tells you a lot about how he had the bravery to stand up, and say, This is unacceptable, in the ways he did.
But I think your bigger point, Kaitlan, is so well-taken. In almost any election, in the last few generations? That would have been a seismic moment.
We got to be honest that right now, our politics is it's not about foreign policy. It's not about military strength. It is about the domestic reality. It's about some of the things you and Brian talked about, about changing country and a changing cultural reality.
But Democrats got to stop ignoring that. It's not about democracy and these big-picture issues. We've got to speak to the kitchen table, and people's lives as they're lived. And we've got to see Kamala Harris be blunter about some of these issues, so people can feel her true feelings, if we want to bring some of those votes our way. HEYE: And look, we can have things that are bombshells. We've had so many of them over the past several years that also aren't terribly important when it comes to voters.
Is those voters -- voters have made up their mind by and large on Donald Trump. And those undecided voters don't like him? They're screaming at the Harris campaign, Tell us who you are and what you're going to do. And that's what's lacking at this point.
COLLINS: Yes.
And I should note, the Trump campaign responded and said, "Woke train- wreck Mark Milley clearly suffers from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and it's no surprise he pals around with a washed up fiction writer like Bob Woodward to peddle lies and misinformation."
DE BLASIO: That dog ain't going to hunt.
[21:30:00]
COLLINS: Of course, a reminder that for Bob Woodward's last book, Donald Trump sat and did multiple interviews, with the person they're referring to there.
Thank you all for being here, on a Friday night.
Up next. Hurricane rescues are still happening in Florida, tonight. Water is still rising in some areas, as conspiracy theories are abounding about who sent the storm.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Evacuations are actually happening, in Florida, tonight, as floodwaters in some cities are continuing to rise in parts of the state. One sheriff is urging people to get out now, because the water is not going to go down.
[21:35:00]
People who live near an overflowing river, in the Tampa Bay area, are also being forced to leave their homes, all over again, as officials are going door to door, to rescue residents, who thought they had already made it through the worst of Hurricane Milton, only to have their homes filling up with water, feet of water, in some cases, two days later.
All of this is coming as these back-to-back hurricanes from Hurricane Helene to Hurricane Milton are giving new life to an old conspiracy theory and lie. Until this week, it was mostly confined to the fringe corners of the internet.
The theory goes, that the government controls the weather by dropping toxic chemicals from the sky, and these trails that planes leave behind. It does not. Those trails are just water vapor.
This is a theory that has long been debunked. But prominent voices on the far-right are reviving it, and other conspiracy theories, to falsely claim that the government deliberately steered the hurricanes toward Trump-supporting communities, in a plot to steal the election. Yes, you heard that right.
This is CNN's Donie O'Sullivan's job, our source on all things conspiracy.
I mean, it's not just the fringe corners of the internet.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: No.
COLLINS: Jimmy Kimmel's joking about it, last night. President Biden had to address it. I mean, it's a thing that is also being pushed by members of Congress.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, a lot of people in Congress pushing this.
Look, I think, firstly, just the science of this is contrails, which they're actually called, not chemtrails, on the back of a plane are, as you mentioned, water vapor. When it comes to actually trying to control the weather and trying to -- there are efforts to try and make it rain in places that are experiencing really dry conditions.
I spent a lot of time, this week, talking to actual weather and climate scientists, who are even trying to do this sort of stuff. And they said, Look, this is so hard, it barely works most of the time, when we're trying to do it. It's really hit and miss. And when we can do it, it's really to make, like, tiny little changes, maybe make it rain a little bit, where otherwise it might not. They said, To steer a hurricane, to do anything like this? Just impossible.
COLLINS: Yes, it's almost like it's climate change, and how hot the Gulf is.
O'SULLIVAN: There you go.
COLLINS: If you've been in it lately.
O'SULLIVAN: That is -- yes.
COLLINS: And you can see that.
And when you look at this? And you know it's bad when Alex Jones is celebrating it, which he was. Listen to what he had to say this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX JONES, CONSPIRACY THEORIST: I am seeing explosive awakening to this, in the last few years, and it's really at a crescendo now. Everywhere, people on the street, family, dominating social media, videos with hundreds of millions of views just all over the place talking about this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I mean, of course, a reminder. That's the guy who lied about Sandy Hook shooting victims.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
COLLINS: Little kids who were murdered in their classroom.
But just to see him touting the idea that this is now being something that we're talking about?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
COLLINS: That people are having to shoot down and address?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. I mean, like, when it comes to the chemtrail conspiracy theory, I think that it's kind of up there with the flat- earth, like there are people who still believe that the earth is flat. It's one of those really ridiculous conspiracy theories.
But what we have seen this week. And I was, you know, I do this, unfortunately, as a full-time job, looking at these parts of the internet. It was everywhere. This whole idea that the government somehow intentionally, one, either created the hurricanes, or two, were able to steer them in some way, to Trump-supporting districts in the country. It really was everywhere.
And I can even show you right now, I think Jones tweets in the past hour, just a picture. I mean, it's a -- it would be funny if it's--
COLLINS: What does that caption say?
O'SULLIVAN: It's a -- this is--
COLLINS: "Tonight's sky in East Texas."
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, clouds in the sky. So, that's kind of where we are in this country, right now.
COLLINS: I mean, do these -- it's like people, who've never been to Washington, and as someone who lived there? They can't even pass a budget.
O'SULLIVAN: I know, yes.
COLLINS: Much less create a Category 5 hurricane.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, yes.
COLLINS: And direct it to Republican communities.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, if only Democrats were that organized, they might not be neck-and-neck with Trump in the polls.
COLLINS: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: But look, I will just say this all sounds ridiculous, because it is. But--
COLLINS: But people believe it.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. And I'm still hearing to this day, when it comes to 2020 election, there's a lot of people out there who believe the whole pandemic was set up just to steal the election. I think we're going to be hearing about this hurricane conspiracy theories, especially if Trump doesn't win, in November.
COLLINS: You're going to be busy.
Donie O'Sullivan, thank you for that.
O'SULLIVAN: Roll Tide.
COLLINS: It's the movie that Donald Trump doesn't -- well let's hope so. Let's see if tomorrow goes better for us than last week.
Up next. It is a movie that Donald Trump tried to not have anyone see, but it is hitting theaters today. Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roy Cohn, nice to meet you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Roy Cohn, you're brutal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rule two: Admit nothing, deny everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rule three: No matter what happens, you claim victory and never admit defeat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to be willing to do anything to anyone to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: "The Apprentice" is making its debut just weeks out from Election Day. My next source is the Director behind the film.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, despite legal threats from the real Donald Trump, the controversial film, "The Apprentice," is now showing at theaters, nationwide, a movie that's based on his relationship with Roy Cohn.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEBASTIAN STAN, ACTOR, "THE APPRENTICE": (As Donald Trump) You know, I should have talked to Dad before announcing the Commodore.
JEREMY STRONG, ACTOR, "THE APPRENTICE": (As Roy Cohn) He'll be convinced when he reads about it in the Times, OK?
STAN: (As Donald Trump) Well...
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) You create your own reality.
STAN: (As Donald Trump) It's not that easy.
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) Truth is a malleable thing.
STAN: (As Donald Trump) But he's--
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) These are too tight, I think.
STAN: (As Donald Trump) All right. Well, I'm sorry.
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) You have kind of a big ass, you know that? You got to work on that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We try something else.
STAN: (As Donald Trump) Look, My dad is tough, all right. He's very tough.
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) Well, that's why you got to spread the news like it's already happening.
STAN: (As Donald Trump) No, we just, you can't push him around very easily.
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) Fine. OK, fine. Then, what, let him push you around. That would you want?
[21:45:00]
STAN: (As Donald Trump) No, I don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, very, very fine fabric. Brioni.
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) What is that? Merino wool?
STAN: (As Donald Trump) Looks expensive. How much is this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One a $1,100.
STAN: (As Donald Trump) OK. That's--
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) OK. We'll take it. And matching shirt and tie.
STAN: (As Donald Trump) I can't pay for this.
STRONG: (As Roy Cohn) Forget it, OK? Forget it. Listen, here. I don't need your money. You pay me back with your friendship, OK? Quid pro quo. You'll be a friend to me. I'll be a friend to you. OK, that's -- that's -- that's -- that's the pact. OK? If you look like a million bucks, I look like a million bucks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: My source tonight is the Director of "The Apprentice," Ali Abbasi. It's great to have you here.
And I think when some people hear that title, they might think it's about the show, the reality show. But actually, it's based on a young Donald Trump and his mentorship that he had with Roy Cohn, this controversial--
ALI ABBASI, DIRECTOR, "THE APPRENTICE": That's right.
COLLINS: --figure, who was kind of this Master of the Dark Arts attorney. Why did you choose to focus on that relationship?
ABBASI: I think, this was our way of involving Donald Trump character, without doing a Donald Trump biopic. Because that would have been, like, I think it would have been a completely different project.
And, also, I am not even sure if it would have been that exciting. Because what's interesting with this is to see, how he became the person we know him today, and how that transformation happened under Roy Cohn's mentorship.
COLLINS: And Jeremy Strong plays Roy Cohn in this film, which I think is a fantastic choice. Just as you were looking and researching into this, as you were making this movie.
That's a picture of the two of them there.
What did you learn about Roy Cohn that you did not know, and the influence that he had on Donald Trump?
And just for everyone's awareness, when I was covering the White House, Trump would say, Where is my Roy Cohn, as he was like searching for his attorneys. This was someone who was still present in his mind, long after he passed away.
ABBASI: I'd say, very much so. And those rules that you know that we -- you know, we obviously dramatize them in the movie. But the sort of the idea that you create your own reality, and the reality you need. And many other things that Roy taught him, they are, he's using them every day, on the campaign trail.
But Roy Cohn was a wonderfully colorful character. He was, you know, started as Joseph McCarthy's right-hand man, and worked himself up through all this, the Red Scare.
Then, after that he came to New York, became sort of a socialite, fixer, lawyer, had all sorts of clients. Was repping all five mob family -- New York mob families, at the same time, at some point. As being friends with Richard Nixon. As representing Andy Warhol. As having gay porn cinemas. As being a closeted gay man. And I can go on and on and on.
But also, he was generous to his friends. He was loyal. He could, you know, he was interested in Persian poetry, classical poetry. So, it was a truly contradictory and complex character.
COLLINS: Yes, and Trump later distanced himself from Roy Cohn later on in his life, as he was dying from AIDS and--
ABBASI: That's right.
COLLINS: But, as -- you know, I know you've been trying to release this film for a while. You've been working on this for a while. But it's now coming out 25 days before the U.S. election.
Was that intentional in any part? And what impact do you want it to have, this close to the election?
ABBASI: I mean--
COLLINS: If any.
ABBASI: --we've been trying to make a movie since 2018. So, every year we're thinking, OK, this is going to be before some election, or after an election, or during or, you know?
And, in a way, this timing is a bit crazy, you know? And I wasn't expecting it. But I don't mind it. Because, as someone, who has done this much work, and put up so much of my life on this, I would want this to come out, and get maximum publicity.
And also, as an artist, filmmaker, it's interesting to have something to be in interaction with reality. I don't really think that anyone in their right mind think that we have the power to change or affect the U.S. elections. I really, sincerely wish I had those powers, you know?
But, again, if I was doing a movie about Lionel Messi, the soccer player, I would try to time it, so that it comes before and after -- or during workups.
COLLINS: Just so it's relevant and whatnot.
And I know you -- I heard you talking about how you called this fact- based journalistic rigorous work, going into this movie, of what this looks like. There's a disclaimer in it that tells viewers some of the events have been fictionalized for dramatic purposes.
[21:50:00]
But this comes, as the Trump attorneys did send a cease and desist after the initial premiere. In a statement, in part, they were calling it garbage and fiction. And they were saying it was malicious defamation.
How has, one, can you respond to that? And two, how has that been a factor in making this film?
ABBASI: I think that's a sign that they definitely has -- they have not watched the movie. Because, as we saw, the other day, Roger Stone, a Trump ally, longtime friend and adviser, saw the movie, and he was happy about it. He praised us for portrait of Roy Cohn.
And we've been saying all along that this is sort of -- our liberal friends were saying that, This is not critical enough of him. And Trump camp is saying, This is too critical.
And I think we -- if we succeed in pissing off both sides, we're doing something right, you know? That is the point of being non-partisan, and not being on the party political lines, I think.
COLLINS: Ali Abbasi, thank you so much.
ABBASI: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next. After two assassination attempts, Donald Trump's campaign is making a big new ask, from the U.S. government, wanting military aircraft that can block missiles and more. My new reporting, next.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, I've got new reporting about how the Trump campaign is making a big ask, to ramp up his security, in the final weeks before the election.
Sources tell us tonight that Trump's team is going as far as to seek sophisticated military assets, as part of his security, including requesting access to a military aircraft, with anti-missile capabilities, military vehicles for his primary motorcade, drones that are equipped with thermal monitoring, and increased stockpiles of that bulletproof glass that you've seen in front of him, at his speaking appearances recently.
This is all happening, of course, in the wake of two assassination attempts against him, and an ongoing threat from Iran. Although, I should note, there's no evidence tying the latter to the former yet.
I'm also told that Trump has complained privately that he's being forced to hold smaller rallies, he says, because of the security concerns. Though, of course, every president and presidential candidate has faced restrictions, when it comes to their freedom of movement, because of these security concerns.
My source tonight is Jonathan Wackrow, the former Secret Service Special Agent and CNN Law Enforcement Analyst.
Do you think that Trump should be getting what his campaign is asking for?
JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL AGENT, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, CORPORATE SECURITY CONSULTANT: Everything except for the plane. And we'll talk about the plane in a moment.
But everything else on the list of requests is reasonable. And why? Because you think about the unprecedented threat environment that the former President is facing. He's had two assassination attempts. We're living in a society of rising political violence. We have this overarching Iranian threat that is persistent. It's not going away.
COLLINS: It's real.
WACKROW: It is real, and the intelligence community has verified that.
So, the assets that they're requesting are reasonable. And they're also -- the campaign is also justified in their frustration, because a lot of these assets that they're asking for are really, they're not getting it because of logistical concerns. And that can be overcome fairly easily.
So, they should be getting them, and they should be getting them quicker. Actually, they should have already had them by now, based upon these threats.
Now, the plane is a different story.
COLLINS: Why is the plane a different story?
WACKROW: So, the plane is a different story, because if you think about the Secret Service, the government taking a threat-based methodology, applying protection. So what are you saying here is that, are you saying that there's a fear, or that there's intelligence, that there potentially could be an unmitigated threat out there that has the ability to launch an attack on an aircraft.
If that's really true? Then there are alarm bells that should be ringing all over the government, the FBI, the FAA and DHS. We don't -- we're not hearing that. So why do you need that type of asset?
Everything else, I wholeheartedly agree with. But the plane is questionable.
COLLINS: But the devil's advocate would say, Well, he is a -- it's not -- he's not just a typical presidential candidate, in the sense that he is a former President.
And the argument, basically what they're asking for is everything that Biden has. I mean, these are all capabilities, this is all what they're doing, right now, to protect President Biden any time he goes somewhere. So they say, Why would someone who could be the President not get the same kind of level of security?
WACKROW: Because with Biden, we know that that threat persists. We know that the President of the United States is put into certain locations, most -- but commonly outside of the United States, where that aircraft is susceptible, and that's why it has defensive postures. That's not the case with the former President.
The former President is not going into environments that are hostile, that there is a risk of a surface-to-air missile attacking that aircraft.
COLLINS: And so, for Air Force One, for people who don't know, and same with The Beast, they have pretty fantastic capabilities.
WACKROW: Yes.
COLLINS: But Air Force One has those anti-missile operations, where they can shoot down a missile from the plane itself.
WACKROW: Yes, it has -- it has an elevated level of defensive capabilities than your normal commercial airliner. But again, it's out of necessity, because of where the President of the United States, and because the sitting President's role, where they go around the world, are putting that aircraft in potential danger. That's not the case here with -- what we're facing with the former President.
[22:00:00]
The challenge is we don't know the intelligence, right? The campaign is getting briefed by the intelligence community.
COLLINS: Yes.
WACKROW: We just don't know that. But I find it hard to believe that there's that type of threat out there that it is facing the President -- the former President.
COLLINS: Yes, they said -- they said the briefings on Iran are serious and immediate and very scary.
Jonathan Wackrow, thank you so much for coming in on this new reporting.
WACKROW: Thank you.
COLLINS: Thank you all so much for joining us. Have a great weekend.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
