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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Harris Makes Defiant Debut In First Fox Interview; Fox News Fails To Disclose Trump's All-Women Town Hall Was Packed With His Own Supporters; Family Of Menendez Brothers Calls For Their Release. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired October 16, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Wow. Jean Casarez, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
You saw Dominick Dunne in that piece. His son, Griffin, has actually written a remarkable book, about growing up with his dad, and his mom. I highly recommend it. The book is by Griffin Dunne.
Jean, thank you so much.
"THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now. I'll see you, tomorrow.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Vice President Harris comes out swinging, in a combative interruption- filled throwdown on Fox. Harris was pushed, and pushed right back, including a moment about Donald Trump that seemed to set her off.
Pete Buttigieg is here with his take.
And J.D. Vance finally answered what he would not answer for weeks. No, he says, Donald Trump did not lose the 2020 election, at least not in his words.
And an inside source will join me this hour, with what he knows about the battle for the place that could decide this entire election. Pennsylvania. Senator John Fetterman is here.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
With 20 days to go until the election, Vice President Kamala Harris went where she has never gone before, and frankly, where no Democratic nominee has gone, in quite some time. On Fox. The Vice President campaigned for those few persuadable conservative voters, in an interview that was contentious right from the jump.
Fox's Bret Baier questioned the Vice President on everything, from immigration, to trans rights, to how she would be different than President Biden. She was interrupted several times, as she was answering those questions. And there were tense exchanges, throughout this entire interview. But it was this moment, maybe, when she was asked about Trump supporters, that things got incredibly heated.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Why, if he's as bad as you say, that half of this country is now supporting this person who could be the 47th President of the United States. Why is that happening?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This is an election for President of the United States. It's not supposed to be easy.
BAIER: I know, but if it's as--
HARRIS: It's not supposed to be -- it is not supposed to be a cakewalk for anyone.
BAIER: So, are they misguided, the 50 percent?
HARRIS: Listen--
BAIER: Are they stupid? What is it?
HARRIS: Oh, God. I would never say that about the American people.
And in fact, if you listen to Donald Trump, if you watched any of his rallies, he's the one who tends to demean and belittle and diminish the American people. He's the one, who talks about an enemy within -- within, an enemy within, talking about the American people, suggesting he would turn the American military on the American people.
BAIER: We asked that question to the former President today. Harris Faulkner had a town hall. And this is how he responded.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I heard about that. They were saying I was like threatening. I'm not threatening anybody. They're the ones doing the threatening. They do phony investigations. I've been investigated more than Alphonse Capone. He was the greatest gangster.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: No, it's true.
HARRIS FAULKNER, FOX NEWS HOST: All right. We have a question--
TRUMP: No, but think of it. It's called weaponization of government. It's a terrible thing.
BAIER: So.
HARRIS: Bret, I'm sorry, and with all due respect, that clip was not what he has been saying about the enemy within, that he has repeated, when he's speaking about the American people. That's not what you just showed.
BAIER: Well he was asked about that specific--
HARRIS: No, no, no, that's not what you just showed, in all fairness--
BAIER: No, no, no, I'm telling you that was the question--
HARRIS: --and respect to you.
BAIER: --that we asked him.
HARRIS: He didn't show that. And here's the bottom line. He has repeated it many times. And you and I both know that. And you and I both know that he has talked about turning the American military, on the American people. He has talked about going after people, who are engaged in peaceful protest. He has talked about locking people up, because they disagree with him.
This is a democracy. And in a democracy, the President of the United States, in the United States of America, should be willing to be able to handle criticism without saying he'd lock people up for doing it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: I want you to see for yourself regarding what Harris is saying there, about the clip that they played of Trump. Fox chose to air only Trump's defense of his threats, to use the military against United States citizens.
But this is what Trump actually originally had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think the bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they're the -- and it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or, if really necessary, by the military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My lead source tonight is Pete Buttigieg, here, I should note, in his personal capacity, as a surrogate for the Harris campaign.
Thank you so much for being here.
I mean, you introduced yourself at the Democratic National Convention, by saying, I'm Pete Buttigieg. You might recognize me from Fox News. You're a frequent guest on that network. What were your thoughts, on this interview tonight?
[21:05:00]
PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) FORMER MAYOR OF SOUTH BEND, INDIANA: Well, it was really impressive on her part. She was tough, smart, focused, disciplined, the same qualities that made her a very effective prosecutor and, I think, are going to make her a very effective president.
And she did it in territory that's obviously not ideologically- friendly. I think she'd have many reasons to think twice about whether she was going to get fair treatment on Fox News. But even as they were interrupting her, preventing her from speaking, she got her point across.
And she called out things, like that moment, that exchange that we just saw, where they attempted to sidestep the shocking fact of someone wanting to be President, calling Americans, the enemy from within.
And I think it's especially appropriate, actually, for her to do that on Fox. Because, when I think about conservatives, Republicans that I know, one of the things that's most -- that I'm most sympathetic to, about what sincere conservatives care about, is a passion for liberty, and a real concern about making sure that liberty is protected.
Now, I disagree with a lot of Republican friends who think that that goes so far, that enforcing the Clean Water Act isn't something we should do, because it just might impinge on liberty.
But these are the exact folks, who need to be reminded about the implications for a freedom-loving country, if the next President of the United States is somebody, who has flirted with -- more than flirted with, talked about turning the military, on American citizens, who he disagrees with, politically.
And I think there are a lot of folks at home, maybe conservative Republicans, or independents who lean right, who are thinking to themselves, If you've got a friend or a coworker or a daughter, who is more politically to the left than you are, is she going to be safe in a country, where the President of the United States calls her the enemy?
COLLINS: Well, I mean, in that interview, she was making that argument about what Trump has said about the military, the National Guard, and using it against U.S. citizens. I mean, when you see that moment there, and how she responded about, the clip that was played.
She's been in politics for a long time. But given that you have such experience with going on Fox, I mean, did you give her any advice about this interview beforehand?
BUTTIGIEG: I wasn't involved in her interview prep.
What I will say is that one principle I try to remember, that I thought she demonstrated, is making sure not to allow them to kind of change the subject, or the framing of the question at hand, right?
The whole topic there was the fact that a candidate for president, and a former U.S. President, described the American people, the ones he disagreed with, as the enemy. And it's really important not to allow some sidestepping of that. So, she did that. She also made sure to continue to get her point across, even when she was being repeatedly interrupted. As somebody who has a lot of batting practice myself, on that network, really proud of how she represented her views, her values, and this ticket, in front of a conservative audience. Something I might add, by the way, that is a show of strength.
That is the exact opposite of the weakness that Donald Trump has demonstrated, by pulling out of going, even on CNBC, which is hardly a liberal bastion, or "60 Minutes," where it's customary for both candidates to go on. He's not prepared to go in front of a skeptical, let alone unfriendly, audience. She demonstrated the opposite.
And remember, this is in keeping with her continued outreach to conservatives. Look at the difference, between her making clear that she would include Republicans in her cabinet--
COLLINS: Yes.
BUTTIGIEG: --campaigning with so many Republicans, principled Republicans, who are for her, versus him, referring to Democrats as the enemy.
COLLINS: Yes, and there was one point, in this interview, where she was questioned about a position that she touted on the campaign trail, in 2019, that was recently highlighted by CNN's KFILE, I should note. And it's her support for taxpayer-funded gender transition surgeries for prison inmates.
And here's what she had to say about that tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: Are you still in support of using taxpayer dollars to help prison inmates or detained illegal aliens to transition to another gender?
HARRIS: I will follow the law. And it's a law that Donald Trump actually followed.
BAIER: The Trump aides say that he never advocated for that prison policy and no gender transition surgeries happened during his -- his presidency.
HARRIS: Well, you know what? You got to take responsibility for what happened in your administration.
BAIER: Yes, no surgeries happened in his presidency.
HARRIS: It's an election lie (ph).
BAIER: So, would you still advocate for using taxpayer dollars for gender reassignment surgeries?
HARRIS: I would follow the law, just as I think Donald Trump--
BAIER: Well you have to (ph) say it is.
HARRIS: --would say he did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: She didn't say what her position is on that, or whether or not it's changed. Said she would continue to follow the law, pointing out what the Bureau of Prisons did, when Donald Trump was -- when he was in office.
But from your view, do you think that she should have said what a Harris administration will do on this front?
[21:10:00]
BUTTIGIEG: I think she was wise to make clear that this is something that is a matter of law. I think there was a court order involved. That's why you saw the Trump administration doing the same thing. But also, I think she's been very effective at not taking the bait on this.
Look, this is all the Trump campaign wants to talk about. Even though, if you talk to the next 100 people you see on the street, or in your life, about the biggest things affecting their personal lives, the biggest things are going to be at stake in this election that will shape whether the next years go well for them.
Like, whether the goods and products we buy are affordable, in the face of his proposed tariffs.
Whether their job is secure, in the face of him proposing to eliminate some of the policies that are bringing back manufacturing in the Midwest.
Whether they're going to have personal freedoms in the face of the fact that every woman in America had the right to choose, before Donald Trump became president.
COLLINS: Yes.
BUTTIGIEG: And then has lost it since he was president. Right? They don't want to talk about that. So, they want to talk about this.
And I think she very effectively put this issue in its place, which is an issue affecting a tiny number of people, and that has already been laid out, by law, a law that both administrations have complied with, and get back to the issues that most Americans actually feel are affecting their everyday life.
COLLINS: Well, and that's a good point, that it's -- when you look at what voters care about, and you ask them, it is not something that is at the top. We're talking economy, immigration, democracy, abortion. Those are the things that we've constantly seen consistently at the top.
But this is something that the Trump campaign is highlighting. The quote, where she's on camera, talking about it, and her position, and saying, Yes, she does believe this is something that should be offered. And they're running this in critical states, during football games.
Clearly, it's not just about what all voters think. It's that tiny slice of moderate voters that she is trying to win over. Do you think it could have impact with them?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, yes, they're certainly trying to make this election about anything but the issues that are affecting people's lives the most, right?
He doesn't want to explain the fact that his tariffs are going to add thousands of dollars to the cost for a typical family.
He doesn't want to defend the fact that he eliminated the right to choose. That, again, every woman in America had a right, a national right, to choose, when he became president. And every woman in America now lives without a national right to choose, because he took it away from them, right? That's the last thing that they want to talk about.
So, they'll talk about anything. Whether it is this, whether it is people allegedly eating cats or dogs or geese, or anything else that he can change the subject to, in order to try to divert from that.
This campaign, and in particular, the Vice President, have been very disciplined, and very effective, at seeking to deny them the chance to change the subject like that.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see, obviously, what the voters think.
I do want to ask you what we heard from Senator J.D. Vance today, where he finally gave an answer on whether or not he thinks Donald Trump lost the election. I think, unsurprisingly, he said, No, Trump did not. He said, quote, by the words that he himself, that Vance would use. It's a question he has dodged for several weeks now.
What do you make of what he said tonight, saying, essentially denying that Donald Trump lost the election, that Donald Trump did lose.
BUTTIGIEG: Well, first of all, it's wrong. Of course, Donald Trump lost. And I think he knows that. I think he's lying. I also think it's a mistake, politically, because voters have a dim view of election- deniers.
And up until now, he's trying -- he's tried to avoid officially becoming an election-denier, by dodging the question, answering the question with a question, doing anything he could, but give a straight answer.
Now that he's given a straight answer, J.D. Vance is officially on the record, as an election-denier, something that is shameful. But also something that, if, certainly, if we look at 2022, and have pretty much anybody who is an election-denier, who is on the ballot, in so many swing states, statewide races lost, I think that's something that that's a setback. Now, he probably has no choice, because Donald Trump has probably demanded that he lie, and that he say that.
But look, one of the most profoundly important things, in a democratic process, is that when you lose an election, you say so. I mean, it's one of the most fundamental parts of how democracy works. It's no fun to lose an election. I know what it's like to lose an election. But you do it. It should go without saying.
The fact that it didn't go without saying is one of the most disqualifying things that helps to explain why so many conservative Republicans are not just sitting this one out, but campaigning for Kamala Harris, even though they disagree with her on a lot of policies.
COLLINS: Well, also, to say, In my words, I would not. It seemed a way to couch saying that he doesn't think Donald Trump lost the election, saying, In the words that I would use, no, he didn't.
I mean, words are words, losses are losses, wins are wins. So I just -- that's, I think, the part that confused me the most in that answer.
[21:15:00]
BUTTIGIEG: Joe Biden won. Donald Trump lost. And anybody who cannot bring themselves to say that out loud? Just the way I, as much as it pains me, will say Donald Trump won and Hillary Clinton lost the election, back in 2016. If you can't say that? That is literally disqualifying, for the vice presidency or the presidency.
COLLINS: Pete Buttigieg, thank you for your time tonight.
BUTTIGIEG: Thanks.
COLLINS: Up next. We're going to show you more from that contentious interview with Vice President Harris, tonight, including what she now says she would do differently than President Biden.
Plus, the crucial battleground, that is Pennsylvania. It is all we are talking about, in the lead up to the election. We're going to talk to the Democratic senator from that Commonwealth, John Fetterman, on his thoughts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:20:00]
COLLINS: Tonight, in that contentious interview, on Fox News, Vice President Harris was asked again, what would she do differently in her job, if she is president, elected president, than President Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: So, you're not Joe Biden, you're not Donald Trump. But nothing comes to mind that you would do differently? HARRIS: Let me be very clear. My presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency. And like every new president that comes in to office, I will bring my life experiences, my professional experiences, and fresh and new ideas. I represent a new generation of leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources are here tonight.
The President and CEO of the National Urban League, Marc Morial.
CNN Political Commentator, S.E. Cupp.
And CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.
Brian, just -- not that Twitter's real life ever. But looking at it--
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST, AUTHOR, "NETWORK OF LIES": No, it's not.
COLLINS: --it seemed like a Rorschach test, right from the beginning.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: Of how people were going to see.
Did she crush it? Did she blow it? What was the outcome of the interview?
STELTER: I think Trump refused to debate Kamala Harris again. So, Harris did the next best thing. She booked a debate on Fox News, and that's what this was tonight.
She essentially walked into a Trump campaign field office. Because anchor, Bret Baier, who is a solid journalist, he is also incredibly sympathetic to Trump, because that's what his fans want. That's what his viewers want. His viewers want him to represent the Trump point of view. So, it was almost as if you had a Trump surrogate, interviewing Kamala Harris.
And look, adversarial interviews are a good thing. We should root for them. We should want more of them. You're so fantastic at adversarial interviews, where we challenge newsmakers, and we get answers out of them.
But yes, this was a Rorschach test. Some people think Baier was mansplaining. Other people think Harris was filibustering.
I think at the end of the day, this was all about one word. The word, tough. It showed that Harris was tough. She went into the so-called Fox den, and that's how Harris' campaign is promoting it tonight. They're saying she went into the Fox den, and looked what -- look what happened.
COLLINS: Well, S.E., I'm curious what you thought and how you viewed it.
And just for people who missed it to when I -- when I say it was a contentious interview.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: Just, here's an example of what that sounded like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Was a bill to fix our immigration system. And--
BAIER: Yes, ma'am. It was called the U.S. Citizen--
HARRIS: And--
BAIER: --Citizenship Act of 2021.
HARRIS: Exactly. And--
BAIER: It was essentially a pathway to citizenship--
HARRIS: And so but I -- may I please finish?
BAIER: Yes, ma'am.
HARRIS: May I finish -- may I finish responding please?
BAIER: But here -- and let me just finish. I'll get to the question. I promise you.
HARRIS: I was beginning to answer.
People calling them--
BAIER: Critics say that it goes for Hezbollah--
HARRIS: --suckers and losers has diminished--
BAIER: --Hamas. And who--
HARRIS: --the significance.
BAIER: We're talking over each other. I apologize.
HARRIS: Well, I--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, I know Bret, and he is, I think, a really fair person. And there's an interview he did with Trump, where he is ruthless with Trump. And I would compare those two. I think she got a fair shake.
I think on substance, she was light. On style, she was great. I thought -- I thought like Brian thought she looked tough. And that was a moment that was important for her, to be able to show, I'm tough enough for this, I can withstand the tough interview. Because that's been a knock on her.
STELTER: Right.
CUPP: But where I'm focused on, the undecided voters in the swing states? I don't think this moved them. Because they are still looking for real answers to real problems, real solutions. And I'm not sure that they got those specifics in this interview.
STELTER: Well, there was a real focus on immigration, right? The economy didn't come up until minute number 12.
CUPP: It's the top issue.
STELTER: Abortion never came up as a top issue.
CUPP: The economy is the top issue in every, all seven swing states.
MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT & CEO, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: So, I -- I look at--
COLLINS: But that's a great point, that abortion didn't come up. And that the economy, because that is what the voters who are going to decide this election, that's what we've consistently seen. To Pete Buttigieg's point that her position on trans -- surgeries for transgender people is not going to change, what the outcome of it is.
MORIAL: When I see an election--
STELTER: Right.
MORIAL: --where the polling is 50-48, 50-49, 49-48, what I see is very few undecided voters. Therefore, what you have is a turnout election. And some of these interviews are designed to stoke, to promote, to energize those people who are going to vote for you.
I've been looking at polling for 30 years. Typically, you see eight to 10 undecided, this close to an election. This is an America, where most people have made up their minds. It's just simple. Maybe you're going to move a point here. Maybe you're going to move a point there.
But the fundamental thing, in a place like Pennsylvania, in a place like Georgia, in a place like North Carolina? Who gets their vote out? Who gets it out strong? We know Trump has been able to do that. We know in 2020, Biden could. In 2016, Clinton couldn't. So that's really the test for Harris.
[21:25:00]
COLLINS: Does this help with that? Because it is the line of reaching out to those disaffected Republicans. She did an event with Republicans, in Pennsylvania, right before taping this interview.
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: And also animating the base.
MORIAL: I think Americans love the contact sport of American politics. The Walz-Vance debate, which was, I fell asleep, respectfully, right?
STELTER: Oh.
MORIAL: It was a good debate. But it didn't energize.
This electorate is not the electorate of 2000. This is an electorate that's opinionated. This is an electorate that's passionate. This is Americans that want and have a high appetite for the contact sport of American politics. And that's what you saw tonight, on Fox News.
COLLINS: But I also think in the context of what we saw in those twin appearances.
Her interview, tonight.
Donald Trump did a town hall focused on women and women's top priorities, with Fox.
But Hadas Gold reported tonight that in that Fox Town Hall--
STELTER: Yes.
COLLINS: --the audience was actually stacked with his supporters, which Fox did not disclose.
STELTER: That's right.
COLLINS: And that they even edited out parts, where it was so blatant that the people, who were asking questions were already supporting--
STELTER: Supporting.
COLLINS: --Donald Trump.
STELTER: That's right. This is a real contrast between how Fox was treating Trump today, and treating Harris. But it's not surprising, because Fox is largely an extension of the Trump campaign. That's why it's so remarkable that Harris agreed to do the interview at all.
And now, I'm finding myself thinking, with less than 20 days to go, what else is she going to do? Trump is mostly staying in his safe spaces, like that Fox Town Hall. But Harris wants to go on Joe Rogan's podcast. She wants to be doing other interviews, where she's taking risks. Maybe that reflects the fact that she's more the underdog. That's how her campaign talks.
MORIAL: Yes, right. They--
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: They say they're the underdogs, right now.
MORIAL: --one thing. She's got to demonstrate that she's tough. And in that--
STELTER: Is that partly because she's a woman, and there's a gender--
MORIAL: --there's a gender bias issue.
STELTER: Yes, exactly.
MORIAL: There's a gender bias issue.
STELTER: Yes.
MORIAL: And the question is, Can she stand up to Putin? Can she deal with the hardball politics of negotiating in the Congress? That question is a question that lingers underneath. And I think she's got to--
STELTER: Especially, because Trump's entire campaign is about, I'm the tough guy.
COLLINS: Yes.
MORIAL: That's -- yes.
COLLINS: Well, and I will note--
STELTER: That's right.
MORIAL: Yes.
COLLINS: --Trump did that interview with the Economic Club of Chicago, yesterday, that had -- he was--
STELTER: That was tough.
COLLINS: --he was pressed on that.
But S.E., what's your view on how she's navigating this as a--
CUPP: Well, of course, there is some sexism that just lingers, in every election. And we've seen some of that. But I don't actually think she needs to prove she's tough in that sense. I think what she needed to prove was that she can withstand these lines of inquiry.
Because she's been so press-averse, until now? And she's doing a lot more press.
STELTER: Yes.
CUPP: I think the criticism was that she was too scared, she didn't have the answers, she couldn't talk in a way that made sense to people, or really. And I think she's proving that wrong. But that was, I think, what people needed to see, and what was accomplished in this Fox interview, more than anything else.
COLLINS: Yes.
Great to have you all. Thank you for your takes on that. Quite an interview to watch.
Up next. We're going to talk about another part of that interview that was notable, her shifting views on immigration, something that she was questioned about tonight.
We're going to also speak to Pennsylvania senator, John Fetterman is here, about what's happening in the Commonwealth there. Also his take on Elon Musk, who is going to be showing up a lot, in Pennsylvania, over the next 20 days.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, as Vice President Harris went, where President Biden did not, four years ago, on Fox News, she said this, about the administration's immigration policies in the southern border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: You said repeatedly that the border was secure. When, in your mind, did it start becoming a crisis?
HARRIS: I think it -- we've had a broken immigration system transcending, by the way, Donald Trump's administration, even before. Let's all be honest about that. I have no pride in saying that this is a perfect immigration system. I've been clear, I think we all are, that it needs to be fixed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Immigration, of course, remains one of the top issues in the place that may decide this election. That's the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
I want to get straight to THE SOURCE with the Democratic senator from Pennsylvania, John Fetterman.
Senator, thank you for being here.
Earlier in the interview, as she was talking about providing services for transgender people, in the sprawling federal prison system, Harris was arguing that Trump had a similar policy. And she said, at one point, You've got to take responsibility for what happened in your administration.
Does the same apply to her, though, when she's being questioned about the border, over the last three and a half years?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): No, I mean this -- the whole -- the whole situation, if you want to talk about the border. I've been very clear that the border is an issue, and I don't know why it would be controversial for Democrats to say, We need to have a secure border, like that.
But we also have to acknowledge also that Trump has absolutely tanked, he tanked, and he called for the Republicans to tank the bipartisan border deal. And I voted for that. And the Republicans refused to do that.
And that was a great bill. And the Republicans, they even agreed -- it should be agreed that that was a great deal. And Trump said this is far too more valuable in the election, and he has weaponized that, and how he's going to talk about that. The border needed to be secure, and I've been very clear, and agree with that. And that bill was tanked by Trump.
COLLINS: Yes, and I just read the other day that border crossings are at their lowest point, since Biden took office. Obviously, he signed those executive orders, restricting asylum and whatnot, once that bill was tanked.
[21:35:00]
But I think, for skeptical voters that you're out talking to, in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, is an answer like that, when they say, OK, well, what about before February, and in the years before that, is that enough for them, when you talk to them?
FETTERMAN: Yes, what -- I mean, let's be honest as well, too. The border is, is an issue for Trump, and the polling reflects on that as well, of course.
But if anyone else is going to be honest as well, too. The Democrats worked with the Republicans, to develop a plan and a bill, to make our border more secure. And then we had that. And trunk -- excuse me, Trump asked us to tank that, and that's exactly what happened. And Trump is going to continue to use that and weaponize that against the Democrats in this election.
COLLINS: What is the latest that you're hearing from voters on the ground?
Because we just talk about Pennsylvania, every single night, here on this show. It is what we're going to be talking about leading up, until three weeks from now, when this election actually happens.
What is the number one thing that you're hearing that stands out to you this close?
FETTERMAN: I don't think there's a specific kind of issues. It's not a nuance kind of a thing. It's going to be really, really close in Pennsylvania. As I've been saying the same thing since 2016. I wish I had something new to say about it.
It's going to be incredibly close in Pennsylvania, and it's going to be very competitive. There's a lot of energy on the ground for Trump supporters, but it's matched by Harris'. She has incredible energy as well, too. Both sides are committed to make -- showing up. And that's why it's going to be very close. And it will be no indifferent (ph) than what we had in 2016, 2020 and now we'll have that in 2024.
COLLINS: Well, and one difference in 2024 is we're going to be seeing Elon Musk, out on the campaign trail, on Donald Trump's behalf. You said something recently to Chris Stirewalt that he appeals to demographics that your party has struggled with. How much impact do you think he could have on this race?
FETTERMAN: No, that's significant. I've always said that. It is significant.
In the business, a lot of surrogates really doesn't count for much. But Musk, it's undeniable that he's successful. He's the world's richest man, and he's been involved in a lot of important things, like SpaceX, or AI, and those things. And he has -- he has a brand, and that's attractive to a demographic that we need to have, to win in Pennsylvania. And it's not even about his checkbook.
Again, I think him being an active surrogate, I think The New York Times described him as effectively, living in Pennsylvania, and he's going to be showing up and going around. That's going to be -- that's going to be mattered.
And the Democrats, for us to make fun of him, for jumping up and down or that things. We would do that at our peril. It's significant.
COLLINS: So, you think people, members of your party are underestimating the influence he could have?
FETTERMAN: Well, I hope not. I hope not. That's why I'm talking about it. It's like, I mean, when he showed up at the Russell Building, for the AI convention, last -- earlier, I mean, I witnessed senators, like, Woo-hoo, he showed up, I got to have my three minutes kind of a thing.
So, I mean, he has a lot of appeal for people, a lot of independently- minded voters in Pennsylvania. And as far as surrogate, hey, that's definitely a significant thing for Trump having.
COLLINS: A major issue, obviously in this election that we've talked about, is abortion and also access to IVF, after what happened in my home state with a ruling from the State Supreme Court that imperiled access to it.
Trump, in an interview, in a town hall, that was focused on women's issue, declared himself, the father of IVF. The spokesperson of his was later asked about it, and said it was a joke that he made in jest--
FETTERMAN: Yes.
COLLINS: --when he was enthusiastically answering a question about IVF.
What was your reaction to that moment?
FETTERMAN: Well, I mean, he has been incoherent for a while now. He says illogical things. And now he made up that whole John Deere kind of story. And now, remember, it -- wasn't a couple days, where he was having like a DJ session, playing music, and saying, I don't want to have questions.
And he's saying increasingly bizarre things. And I can't imagine why the media isn't holding him more accountable on those things. I mean, we're talking about the border, we're talking about all these other issues, when we can't talk about the way Trump has slipped.
And now, he is saying increasingly more incoherent things and bizarre things. And now, he hasn't had a traditional political speech. It's just bizarre ranting, it's really difficult to even follow.
COLLINS: On the John Deere thing, what you're referencing, for people who are watching, who may not be familiar.
[21:40:00]
Trump said yesterday that after John Deere was going to move some of its manufacturing out of the country, I believe, to Mexico, that after he had publicly threatened to put a 200 percent tariff on their products that they were shipping back into the U.S., if they did so. He claimed that they changed their mind, they dropped their plans.
Daniel Dale looked into that. John Deere said, no, they have not made any change to their manufacturing plans.
But, I mean, voters hear, maybe that first part, and don't see the fact-check. I mean, that's something that would matter to people in Pennsylvania. So how do you counter that? What do you do about that?
FETTERMAN: I don't -- I don't think we're out talking about John Deere. But what does that mean? It's one of two things. One, he was actually lying and he knew he was lying. Or he just imagined that he actually did these kinds of things, because he slipped so badly. And so, I mean, it doesn't really matter.
But that doesn't necessarily matter because we're less than three weeks out. And now, it's going to be really close, and it's really committing for us, as Democrats. Where I am, I'm going across Pennsylvania, and a lot of the red rooms, and a lot of the red counties, to make the argument why -- I can't imagine why we would want those next four years, with Trump, but why I believe Harris is going to prevail.
But it is going to be incredibly close on that. And I wish I had something more comforting for anybody that's watching, to think that there's going to be a breakout, kind of a situation.
I would expect everybody that it's going to be really, really close. And to anyone, to anyone that's going to withhold their votes, or to not support Harris? If you vote for a three-way -- excuse me, a three- party, and throw away your vote like that? You're supporting Trump by default as well.
COLLINS: Senator John Fetterman, thank you for your time tonight.
FETTERMAN: Thank you. COLLINS: Up next. You've seen Liz Cheney out endorsing one Democrat, in Vice President Harris. Well, she's just endorsed two more, on top of that.
Harry Enten is here to explain what it all means.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney has already thrown her support behind Vice President Harris. But now she is putting her political weight behind more Democrats.
CNN's Senior Data Reporter, Harry Enten, is here to dig in on those races.
Can we -- and these are House races.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL DATA REPORTER: Yes.
COLLINS: We've seen her back Harris, obviously, presidential election. Colin Allred in the Senate for Ted Cruz's seat. Now she's getting into House races.
ENTEN: Yes, she's getting into House races. She's getting into a race on eastern Long Island. John Avlon, of course, our former colleague, challenging Nick LaLota. Also, in Pennsylvania-7, where Susan Wild, the incumbent Democrat's trying to hang on.
Look, the bottom line is this. I think the Avlon is a little bit of a Hail Mary, at this particular hour. It's a district that I think Donald Trump will do quite well in the fall, likely a Republican, according to Cook Political Report. But Pennsylvania-7, toss-up race. Toss-up race in the Philadelphia suburbs, the northern Philadelphia suburbs.
So, it's going to be interesting to see if her endorsement could potentially mean anything. Even if it means a little something in New York, probably doesn't change that race. But any help Susan Wild can get, in the Philadelphia suburbs, I'm sure she'll take.
COLLINS: Do we have a sense of why she's doing this now?
ENTEN: Why is she doing this now? Well, I think she wants to support people that she feels, quote-unquote, support democracy, right? That's something that she said when she endorsed Susan Wild.
We obviously know John Avlon is somebody, who's been very anti-Trump. Part of the reason he ran that campaign -- or decided to leave CNN, and run in that campaign. Somebody who, of course, has called out Trump, on what he believes is Trump trying to essentially take democracy away from Americans.
So, I think that's what's going on here, right? She was somebody who obviously, very anti-Trump, did not like what he did on January 6, and is somebody who is endorsing candidates who, I think, she feels can, quote-unquote, defend democracy.
COLLINS: Well, the Susan Wild race is really interesting. I mean, you saw likely Republican for the New York race between Avlon and LaLota. But the Susan Wild race.
We just talked to Fetterman about the importance of Pennsylvania and the Commonwealth. I mean, her district itself is also very bellwethery, in terms of what that's going to look like. And obviously, it makes a huge difference, regardless of which presidential candidate wins, which party is in control the House.
ENTEN: Absolutely. If there is one county I'm looking at, in Southeast Pennsylvania, understand who is going to win, not just the presidency, but win the House. It's Northampton County, right? And that is a county that the 7th district -- is in the 7th district.
And the bottom line is this. If Democrats want to take back control of the House of Representatives, they have to hold on to Pennsylvania-7, and districts like it. If they go in and win in New York-1, right? I think they're going to head for an extremely good night.
But the districts in the suburbs, in the suburbs of New York, in the suburbs of Philadelphia, in the suburbs of Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, those are the types of places, Democrats need to do well. And Pennsylvania-7 is definitely one of those.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll be watching. All those New York races gave Republicans the House, of course.
ENTEN: I -- you know what?
COLLINS: So.
ENTEN: I love nothing more than a good, competitive race in my backyard, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Same.
Thanks, Harry, so much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Also, I should note tonight, after more than 30 years behind bars, there's new evidence that is being weighed, tonight, for the Menendez brothers, both convicted for murdering their parents. We heard from two dozen of their family members, today, saying they believe they should be released. We'll tell you that next.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There's some breaking news for you this hour, as we are now learning that the U.S. has carried out a round of strikes, in Yemen, against the Iran-backed Houthis, with B-2 bombers.
CNN's Pentagon Correspondent, Oren Liebermann, is joining us live.
Oren, obviously the B-2 bombers, one, in and of itself, is notable.
I think the other question people are going to have is why they're doing this now, and what we're hearing from U.S. officials tonight.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: We haven't been given a specific reason on whether there was a one incident that led to these strikes here.
But again, we've seen the U.S. carry out a series of strikes, smaller, near daily strikes against Houthi. Missiles and drones. And then, occasionally larger strikes, generally following large Houthi attacks, on commercial vessels or on U.S. Navy ships. And we have certainly seen plenty of those, over the course of the past weeks and months.
The U.S. carrying out these strikes tonight with multiple B-2 stealth bombers. And that's noteworthy, because these can carry far heavier payloads, and far greater bomb loads, also more heavy weaponry than the fighter aircraft that usually carry out these sorts of strikes.
[21:55:00]
The targets, according to several defense officials, Houthi weapon storage facilities, including underground facilities. And those generally are harder to hit. Perhaps that's the reason we're seeing the heavier bombers being used in these strikes. But that is certainly noteworthy here.
The U.S. has made clear that they don't want to see a spreading of the war. And yet, Kaitlan, they have also made clear that the Houthi attacks are unacceptable, and the U.S. will occasionally act, and act with force, to stop them when they can.
COLLINS: Yes, a notable decision, especially coming at a time of just such tension happening in the Middle East.
Oren Liebermann, live from the Pentagon. Thank you for that report.
Also tonight, on the west coast, we're seeing pressure that is growing on the District Attorney, in Los Angeles, to reconsider the murder convictions of Erik and Lyle Menendez.
It was more than two dozen of their family members, their extended family, I should note, that came out and gathered, as you can see here, demanding their release from prison, after more than 30 years, for the murder of their parents.
The family is citing new evidence in the case, is the reason why. And the defense attorneys argue that it's corroborating what we heard previously from the brothers, that they were acting in self-defense, after suffering years of physical and sexual abuse from their father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN ANDERSEN VANDERMOLEN, MENENDEZ BROTHERS' AUNT: As details of Lyle and Erik's abuse came to light, it became clear that their actions, while tragic, were the desperate response of two boys trying to survive the unspeakable cruel of their father.
BRIAN A. ANDERSEN JR., MENENDEZ BROTHERS' COUSIN: Their father's abuse was dismissed, their trauma ignored, and their truth mocked by millions.
KAREN VANDERMOLEN COPLEY, MENENDEZ BROTHERS' COUSIN: They have suffered enough. I ask the district attorneys to take into account the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My legal source tonight, Elie Honig, CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, and a former federal prosecutor.
Elie, how unusual is it to see, that many members of someone's family, in a situation, where they're convicted for the murder of their parents, coming out and saying, This is wrong, they should be released?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's an extraordinary circumstance in every case, because these are the family members, not just of the defendants, but also of the victims. And I think the uncle just said something that--
COLLINS: Well that's really important. Victim--
HONIG: Right.
COLLINS: Because--
HONIG: Because you want to know what does the victim's family think.
COLLINS: Yes.
HONIG: Now, that's most of the relatives. There's still a few that oppose letting the Menendez brothers out early. But the vast majority, as we just saw, are in favor of it.
And the thing that the uncle just said that really resonated with me is that people of my generation, Gen X, more or less, we were misinformed and misunderstood what this case was really about.
At the time, I was in high school and college. It was a punchline. It was made fun of on Saturday Night Live, and Conan, and Letterman. And the joke was, Look at these spoiled rich kids from L.A., who couldn't wait to get their hands on their parents' money, and so killed them, and went on a shopping spree.
But wow, if you look into this, this was a case of horrific, unspeakable sexual abuse. And that's really what the new evidence goes to.
COLLINS: So, what happens here? I mean, what's the likelihood of something like this? HONIG: It's going to be, in the first instance, up to the District Attorney. So the District Attorney has the power to say to the judge, I agree to a resentencing.
There's a court hearing on November 29th. And the District Attorney has been playing sort of coy here. But I'm trying to read between the lines. It looks to me like the D.A. may well go along with this. And there's a lot of pressure on him.
I mean, this is a trend on TikTok. The Kardashian -- Kim Kardashian is behind this now. The Netflix documentary is being seen by tens of millions of people. The family members, that's an incredibly powerful showing. So, wouldn't shock me if the D.A. agrees and asks for them to be released.
COLLINS: It's a good point, because this is like something that is becoming more familiar, in the Lex-Connor (ph) people are getting a refresher by watching the documentary.
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: By having conversations about it on social media.
Could that actually be something that helps drive the District Attorney to say, OK, well, I'm hearing about this not just from a press conference, like this today, which was remarkable in and of itself. But also, just the general public?
HONIG: Yes, in the sort of political sense, let's remember, this D.A. is up for reelection in a few weeks, in November, he's up. And so, I think he's probably trying to take the temperature.
I tried to put myself back in that situation. I was a prosecutor, for a long time. I have to say, I would be in favor of releasing them, given all the circumstances, given what they went through, given this new evidence. They've been in prison for 34 years.
My initial instinct was not to have sympathy for them. They shot their parents in cold blood. But your job, as a prosecutor, is to think about all the facts and to consider what is really just and necessary.
They've been in 34 years. Had they been convicted on the lesser offense of what we call imperfect self-defense? They would have been out in 15 years. They would have been out for two decades, by the way.
COLLINS: What makes you think, what would a jury have thought--
HONIG: Yes.
COLLINS: --of seeing this evidence in the total picture?
HONIG: Yes, so both brothers testified at the first trial about this sexual abuse. You can see it on the documentary. I mean, I will tell you I did not realize that was part of the trial. I mean, it's horrifying to watch.
But the D.A., at the time, said they're making it up, it's just their cover story.
This new evidence, letters from back then, an accusation by another person that the father sexually abused them, really corroborates and confirms what Lyle and Erik Menendez testified to, many years ago.
COLLINS: Yes, well, keep us updated. It's a fascinating case.
HONIG: I'm very interested in this. I think it's fascinating.
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Elie Honig, we're interested what you're interested in.
HONIG: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: And thank you all so much for joining us.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
