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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
This Hour: Trump & Harris Rally In Pittsburgh On Election Eve; Soon: Harris, Trump Hold Final Campaign Events On Election Eve; Anxiety & Stress: Inside The Final Hours Of The 2024 Race. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 04, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- so, yes, four years ago -- and I told you, four Republicans, two undeclared.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Four years ago, Joe Biden beat Donald Trump here. And during the New Hampshire primary, this year, Nikki Haley beat Donald Trump.
COOPER: Interesting.
TUCHMAN: So Donald Trump hasn't done well here, the last two elections, in Dixville Notch.
COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman, we'll be watching Dixville Notch. Thanks very much.
All day tomorrow, CNN will have special coverage, from the polling locations, the critical ballot counts. No one covers elections like CNN. Starting at 04:00 p.m. Eastern. I hope you join me, Jake Tapper and our political team, for "ELECTION NIGHT IN AMERICA."
CNN's countdown to Election Day continues. Kaitlan Collins, up next.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins.
And straight from this SOURCE, tonight. If anyone tells you they know how tomorrow is going to turn out? They don't. But regardless of which way this election goes, we do know it's going to be historic. And we'll be here to guide you through it, one poll closing at a time, as we are now just under three hours away from Election Day.
And if you think that you're ready to find out who's going to win tomorrow, so are these two candidates, who are out holding their final rallies, tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We're just one day away. Oh, we've been waiting for this.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: I've been waiting four years, for this.
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: Four years of rallies, good ones and bad ones. But we didn't have any bad ones, I don't think.
What we should do is swamp them. Just swamp them tomorrow.
(CHEERING)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This is it, just one more day, one more day.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: And momentum is on our side.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: Momentum is on our side. Can you feel it? We have momentum, right?
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: We have got to finish strong.
And make no mistake, we will win.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: We will win.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, both of these candidates are rallying in Pittsburgh, this hour, here at 9 o'clock.
Harris is about to get on stage right now.
Trump is still speaking right now.
You can see a live look at both of these right now. That's Cedric the Entertainer on the left at the Harris rally. Donald Trump still on stage, in Pittsburgh, on the right side of your screen.
Katy Perry is set to get on stage at the Harris rally, in just a few moments.
And later this hour, Donald Trump will be headed to, yes, you guessed it, Grand Rapids, Michigan. That is where he closed out his 2016 and 2020 campaigns. It's where he'll finish this one as well, very late into the evening, I should note. Meanwhile, Vice President Harris is set to finish off her campaign, in Philadelphia, tonight, where the Founding Fathers gathered, the site of the signing of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. A very symbolic nod, as she is giving that speech, at the famous Rocky Steps. Expect to see more celebrities on stage with her, later this evening. Lady Gaga, Ricky Martin, Oprah also expected to be there.
Trump's finale comes after a final sprint, today, that included a stop in North Carolina as well. As CNN is learning from sources tonight that his exasperated aides and allies are urging him to stay on message. They fear that he has strayed from that message at times, including that rally in Pennsylvania that we discussed, last night.
And given the dark and inflammatory rhetoric, one thing is safe to say. These candidates are leaving it all on the table, with two very different visions.
My lead source tonight is the Independent senator from Vermont, who has been out campaigning for Vice President Harris.
Senator Bernie Sanders joins us now.
Senator, I mean, the only thing that everyone can talk about is what's going to happen, tomorrow. It's obviously an incredibly tight race, based on the polling that we've seen.
What is your sense of what we're going to see, happen tomorrow?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I can't tell you anything different than you already know. It's going to be a very, very close race.
And for all of those people out there, who believe in democracy, who believe in women's rights, who believe that climate change is real and not a hoax? Don't sit it out. You may disagree with Kamala Harris on this or that issue. But it's absolutely imperative that we get out and vote, bring our friends out and vote, and we win this thing, and make Kamala our next president.
COLLINS: Well, you just said, Don't sit it out. Certainly, we've heard from some people, who are considering doing so.
And when you look at some of these swing states that are going to be deciding what's happening, tomorrow night, there are still third-party candidates on the ballot in some of these.
Trump, just a few moments ago, was saying Jill Stein is the candidate he's never met, but he loves her as a politician.
I mean, what would you say to voters, who are considering casting their ballots for maybe a third-party candidate?
SANDERS: Look, I understand there are a lot of people, including myself, who strongly disagree with Biden and Harris of Israel and Gaza. And in fact, when Congress reconvenes, I'm going to be introducing a resolution to stop all U.S. arms sales for the right- wing extremist Netanyahu government that is causing massive, unbelievable humanitarian disasters in Gaza right now. So, I disagree with them on that.
[21:05:00]
But what you have to understand is that even on that issue, Trump and the Republicans are far worse. While children, right now, in Gaza, as we speak, are starving, we cannot get Republicans to start (ph) humanitarian aid, to feed starving children. That's how bad that is.
And with Harris as President, I think we have a much, much better chance of changing U.S. policy toward the Netanyahu government, and stopping this war and getting humanitarian aid in there.
But Gaza is not the only issue, as important as that is.
If you believe, as most Americans do, that women have a constitutional right to control their own bodies, you got to vote for Kamala.
If you believe that climate change is real and an existential threat to our country and the world, you got to vote for Kamala, because Trump thinks it is a hoax. And by the way, this is an issue that has not been talked enough about in this campaign.
If Trump wins, the struggle, the global struggle, against climate change, is over. Because if the largest economy in the world, the United States, pulls back, so will China, so will Europe. And God only knows, the kind of world that our kids and grandchildren will be living in, because of climate change.
COLLINS: Yes. Well and--
SANDERS: And if you believe in income and wealth inequality, and dealing with that? Trump wants to give tax breaks to billionaires.
So, you got to come out and vote, even if you don't agree with everything that Kamala is doing.
COLLINS: Well, and on the environmental piece, I've heard, Trump already has regulations lined up that they would reverse if he does take office.
Obviously, we'll see what happens tomorrow.
But just going into, to tomorrow, given how tight it is, and that this could historically be one of the closest races we've ever seen. We don't know. Is there any one thing, Senator, that you're keeping your eye on, starting tomorrow?
SANDERS: Well, look, I mean, we all know there are eight or nine battleground states.
There was recently a poll in Iowa, which some people hope is real, and is emblematic of what may be happening that a lot of older women, for example, are just disgusted with Trump's rhetoric and his hatred, and maybe in large numbers, will be voting for Kamala. But bottom line is that it is -- this is the most consequential election in our lifetimes. And we've got to bring out as many people as we can to see that Kamala wins.
COLLINS: I want you to listen to something that former Congresswoman Liz Cheney had to say today, about tomorrow's outcome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ CHENEY, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I think everybody across this country has to be aware that the Trump campaign has already begun--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Begun.
CHENEY: --pushing notions about rigged election, stolen elections, fraudulent claims. Everybody's got to be aware that they're going to do it. We are in a much better place, at the local level, to help defend against those fraudulent claims. But people just need to be aware that it's happening.
And look, you're going to see Donald Trump continue to melt down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What happens if Donald Trump does come out and declare a victory that's not his--
SANDERS: It's not what if.
COLLINS: --and may not ever be his?
SANDERS: Kaitlan, it is not what if he will. So everybody should be aware--
COLLINS: You think it's inevitable?
SANDERS: Of course he will.
So, he will announce early tomorrow that, I have heard from all over the country, from Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, we have won, and the only way we could possibly lose is if there is voter fraud.
That is what will happen. And I think we've got to be -- this is why he has got to lose, because this is exactly how you undermine democracy.
The only way I can lose is if there is fraud.
Well, that means you can't lose a legitimate election. He has got to be defeated. But we have to be prepared for that. And sadly, there are many of his supporters who do believe that. But this is one of the reasons why Trump must be defeated, because of that constant attack on the rule of law, and the attempt to undermine American democracy.
COLLINS: But are you worried about not just his supporters, but local election officials, and people who are prepared to -- who agree with him that they think there's no way he can lose this election, unless there is fraud, even if there's no evidence of it, and none exist.
I mean, what happens then, if we find ourselves in a situation where local elections boards are refusing to certify the vote?
SANDERS: Well, you're going to have, believe me, the Democrats have many, many, very good lawyers. And you're going to have to fight this thing out, as best we can.
But this is why this election is so unique, and so unprecedented, because you have a candidate who, right now, I'm sure, is telling his supporters that there's no way he can lose this election.
[21:10:00]
COLLINS: No matter who wins, there are going to be tens of millions of Americans, who will be unhappy with the result. I mean, just judging by how split it is right now.
And each side describes the other as kind of a threat to the country's existence. Obviously, Harris and her team say he's a threat to democracy. And you just mentioned the rule of law. Trump claims the country won't exist anymore if she's re-elected, that there's going to be World War III. Obviously, two very different arguments.
But what do you say to people who are not going to be happy with the result, regardless of which way it goes?
SANDERS: Well, this is what I say, not to people, I say to the Democratic Party. The truth is this should not be a close election. Trump has been found guilty of 34 felonies, guilty of sexual abuse. He has been impeached twice. He had 4,000 lawsuits against them when he was in -- a private businessman. This should not be a close election.
And I think the Democrats, win or lose, have got to take a very hard look at themselves, and ask how it could be that a significant majority of working-class people in this country are prepared to vote for Donald Trump.
And the truth is, what has got to happen is that Democrats have got to wake up and say, You know what? Instead of worrying about big-money interests and campaign contributions from billionaires, we got to stand with the working-class of this country. And we need an agenda that is a popular agenda that speaks to Democrats and Republicans.
Kaitlan, you go out there, you talk to Republicans and Democrats, and you say, You think you live in a democracy when billionaires are spending billions of dollars on the federal election? Is that really what a democracy is about? When are we going to get big money out of politics? Democrats, Republicans, both will tell you the same thing.
COLLINS: Yes.
SANDERS: Ask people whether we should give tax breaks to billionaires. They don't agree with that either. There are a lot of issues that can bring people together. And the Democrats are going to start happening to fight for those issues and regain the confidence of a working-class, which they have lost.
COLLINS: A good, hard look, as you put it. Senator Bernie Sanders, we'll have you back to talk about that, after the election. Thank you for joining us, on this very important night.
And as I noted, Vice President Harris is on stage tonight. She's talking about getting out the vote, in just a few hours from now. Let's listen.
HARRIS: Because here's the thing. So much about these last several years has been about trying to make people point their fingers at each other, to have Americans point their fingers at each other, to try and make people feel alone or feel small.
But let us do the work, as we work toward this win, of building up community and coalition and reminding everyone that we have so much more in common than what separates us. Let that be our goal.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: And let us remind everyone, Your vote is your voice and your voice is your power.
(CHEERING)
COLLINS: That's Vice President Harris, in Pittsburgh, wrapping up her campaign. Of course, she's got one more stop. We'll be watching all of that very closely.
Up next. We'll take you inside these campaigns in these final hours. We've got new reporting, from Jamie Gangel. And we're live at the sites of both of the grand finales. Plus, reaction to this new statement from the Harris campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID PLOUFFE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a credible pathway to all seven states, tomorrow night, to go into Kamala Harris' column.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST, ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT: You think you could win all seven?
PLOUFFE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(VIDEO - KATY PERRY PERFORMS AT HARRIS EVENT ON ELECTION EVE)
COLLINS: That is Katy Perry performing on stage, at one of Harris' final rallies of the night before we get to Election Day.
This comes as we're also hearing from sources, inside these campaigns, including some that are telling us, aides and advisers, that they are privately urging, some may call it begging, Donald Trump to stay on message in the final day of his campaigning.
Let's check in on the Republican ticket, and see how that's going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Mike's been through a lot, but he could fight, let me tell you, that guy could fight. But can you imagine Mike... oh he says, Put Mike in the ring with Kamala. That would be interesting.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The citizens of this country are not garbage for wanting to be able to afford groceries, and a nice place to live.
But in two days, we are going to take out the trash in Washington, D.C. And the trash's name is Kamala Harris.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Those two messages there, from Donald Trump and J.D. Vance.
And my political panel is here with me.
And Kristen Soltis Anderson, I should note, we just heard from Joe Rogan, who did an interview today with Elon Musk for his podcast.
And he tweeted, The great and powerful Elon Musk. If it wasn't for him we'd be effed. He did not censor the word. He said, He makes what I think is the most compelling case for Trump that you'll hear, and I agree with him every step of the way. For the record, yes, that's an endorsement of Trump.
Between a Joe Rogan endorsement coming, in the final hours before the election, and what you just heard from Trump and Vance out on the trail today. What do you make, as a pollster, of this final message that we've heard from the Republican ticket, that has been struggling to get women voters to their side?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & POLLSTER: Well, they're trying very much to make sure that young men, in particular, turn out. This is a group that the Trump campaign has really doubled down on.
Republicans have struggled with young voters, for almost two decades, at this point. And Trump has really made a very intentional effort, to try to turn that around, at least halfway with young men, knowing that young women have flocked very heavily to Kamala Harris.
[21:20:00]
And so, while we're out of the persuasion phase of this campaign, to the extent that young men are a hard group to turn out? Anything, I guess, can help in the final closing day.
COLLINS: Yes.
Shermichael, how do you see it, as a Republican.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, I think there are a lot of young men, who feel dislocated from the broader society, whether that's economically, whether that's in terms of education, whether that's in terms of what their role should traditionally be.
It was once upon a time, you were a man, you graduated from high school, maybe you learned to trade and got some skills, you got married, you took care of your family, and people believed that they were happy. That's not the case for many young men today, of all ethnicities, not just White young men we focus a lot on, but all young men.
And so, I think the Republican message of traditionalism, wanting to provide some level of economic advantage to men, is appealing to many who find themselves dislocated. And I think Trump's message on that appears to have been effective. We'll find out for sure tomorrow. But I think that's why the resonance is there.
COLLINS: Yes.
But Van, it's just interesting, given who you're seeing Trump appear on the campaign trail with, in the final stop. He brought Megyn Kelly, on stage, just a few moments ago. Obviously, that's someone he was trashing, actually, not that long ago.
We never saw Nikki Haley come out on the campaign trail with him, even though she made clear, she was willing to do so, and we know that she had power with voters, in key constituencies, in places like Pennsylvania.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Trump is petty white. He's just petty, petty, petty. Won't let Nikki Haley come out. She's trying to help him. He doesn't want her help. And he'd rather win on vengeance and macho and all this sort of stuff, so when he gets in office, if he does get there, he's got a mandate to completely stay nasty.
On this point about young men, though. You say, we're past the persuasion stage. I wish that were true.
On the doors in Philadelphia, on the doors in Detroit, people are still in the fight to persuade young Black men to come out.
And the actual message that's working on the doors is: Kamala Harris wants to lift you up. Donald Trump wants to lock you up. Kamala Harris has plans to get you a job, to get you help with housing, get you help with your next kid. Donald Trump wants to get stop-and-frisk back in place to put you in jail. He wants blanket immunity for cops to make sure that you can get beat up and nothing can be done about it. Kamala Harris wants to lift you up. Donald Trump wants to lock you up.
Now, we've just discovered that as a breakthrough message, in the past 72 hours. This -- don't forget, we had a 100 days here, to put together a whole campaign. So persuasion is happening right now.
If you know, some young African Americans who don't know if they're going to vote? Kamala Harris wants to lift them up. Donald Trump wants to lock them up.
COLLINS: I love a direct to camera Van (ph), always, on Election Eve.
Jamie, though, I should note. And Donald Trump, we just showed him speaking a few moments ago. He has been on stage for two hours now. He still has to fly to Grand Rapids, Michigan, has one more rally to go. That's going to be going late into the evening.
But you've been doing reporting inside the Trump campaign, on the messaging, and also hearing from the Harris campaign on their strategy, going into these next crucial 24 hours.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So look, it's your reporting about what's going on inside the Trump campaign. And the campaign has been worried about all of these things that he's been saying since Madison Square Garden.
I just want to say that I remember in 2016, when that man, over there, we had, Grab them by the whatever, and everybody thought Hillary was going to win. I don't know that what Donald Trump is doing is going to lose him the election. Let me put it that way.
The Harris campaign is cautiously optimistic, but they are also honest enough to say, We don't know.
JONES: Right.
GANGEL: They are also not sleeping.
JONES: Right.
GANGEL: The amount of binge-watching of Netflix is going on until 02:00 in the morning. As far as I can figure out, they are, caffeine, Emily in Paris, and some vibes. That was the word, one person said to me.
JONES: Yes.
GANGEL: My vibes are that we're going to win.
JONES: Hold on. It's going--
GANGEL: But they're not sure yet. JONES: It's going to be tough. Look, here's the deal. We are--
COLLINS: Bernie Sanders just sounded--
JONES: Yes.
COLLINS: --skeptical of a Harris win.
JONES: Look, that whole Iowa poll thing got everybody all happy? That was just silly. That was a great pollster with a bad poll.
We are behind in Pennsylvania, folks. We are behind. We're not where we're supposed to be in the early vote. And that means, get up and go vote. Stand in long lines, do what you have to do.
We are -- when she says she's the underdog, she is the underdog. And I think it's important for people, when you go to bed tonight, to think about, Do I know anybody in a swing state? Can I text them? Can I call them? Can I push people to go vote?
This -- we lost -- Democrats lost Florida in 2000 by 537 votes, and five votes in Supreme Court. So--
SINGLETON: But--
JONES: So, you know enough people to win this election. And we should not give up, tonight. We keep fighting, tonight.
COLLINS: David Plouffe told Erin, earlier, he thinks they can win all seven states.
Do you think that?
[21:25:00]
SOLTIS ANDERSON: I think anything is possible. I have been counseling all of my friends, who have been panic-texting me, Kristen, what does your gut say? Is, I say, You need to prepare yourself for a wide range of outcomes. Just because the polls are close does not mean this will be close.
JONES: Wow.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: It means that we are uncertain about what the outcome will be.
COLLINS: Right.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: And so, you need to prepare yourself. Think of it like a hurricane that's coming. You have that cone of uncertainty. You don't know where it's going to hit. We have a very wide cone of uncertainty right now.
SINGLETON: But Kaitlan, I think about what propelled Trump to the presidency in 2016, and the viability of those things. Social cohesion is non-existent for many. Many believe the social norms of our country are fragmented. Income inequality persists. And Donald Trump, whether you like him or not, has been really great at pointing out a critique of each of those problems.
And oftentimes people will say, I don't like his rhetoric. I don't like the way he behaves. But he's finally shining a spotlight on the things that I have been experiencing, that I've been complaining about--
JONES: I agree with that.
SINGLETON: --for ages and ages and ages.
JONES: Right.
SINGLETON: And this critique isn't just of Democrats.
COLLINS: Yes.
SINGLETON: You'll find many Republicans critique the Republican establishment--
JONES: Yes.
SINGLETON: --about many of these things, which is why many will say, Well, a Liz Cheney doesn't persuade me.
JONES: Yes, but you have identified--
SINGLETON: She was a part of that--
JONES: --you have identified--
SINGLETON: --problem.
JONES: You have identified Trump's great power, which is his power to point out problems. The thing is, he doesn't point out solutions that are real.
And I think that -- I think what -- if Kamala Harris has a shot? It's because she has pointed to the ways.
Look, we got to be honest. We got to quit lying to voters. The President can't help you that much. They can hurt you a bunch, if they do terrible things. But they can help you a little bit.
Kamala -- if you're going to have a baby in the next year, if Kamala's President? You get $6,000. It helps a little bit. You want to buy a house? $25,000, it helps you a little bit. Want to start a business? $50,000, it can help you a little bit.
They -- President can't change your neighborhood. Can't make everything work for you. But a President who wants who can help you a little bit. And that's Kamala Harris.
Donald Trump is going to raise prices through the roof with his tariffs, by deporting low-wage workers. He can hurt you a lot.
Kamala can help you a little. Get that little bit of help and support the system.
COLLINS: Yes.
SINGLETON: But you know, Van, I think people who support the former President would say his messages is simple to understand.
The economy doesn't work for me. He wants to fix it. Immigration, many will argue, is a problem in the local communities. He wants to address the border. They don't want their sons and daughters fighting in foreign conflicts that may lead to World War III. As some have stated, he's going to prevent it.
JONES: I actually think--
SINGLETON: And so, this is a simple response to the critique of the problems he's highlighting.
JONES: Yes, but with--
COLLINS: Yes.
JONES: --with no specifics, and all his answers, it actually make things worse.
But I agree with you.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see.
I love a good storm metaphor, 24 hours out from a highly close election. We'll be following it all closely.
Vice President Harris just finished that rally that we were watching in Pittsburgh.
Up next. It is the final rally of her campaign. There you'll see not Katy Perry, but Lady Gaga and Oprah as well.
We're going to talk to another top Harris ally. Maryland governor, Wes Moore, will join me after a quick break.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're just about two hours away from Vice President Kamala Harris' final rally, her final rally of the campaign that's going to happen in Philadelphia that you see here.
She'll be joined by some mega star power on that stage, including Oprah, Lady Gaga and Ricky Martin.
CNN's own celebrity, Jeff Zeleny, is at that final event. Jeff, I think a lot of people are looking at this and wondering, why did the Harris campaign pick this setting for its final -- final rally of this race? And also, are there 2016 vibes, given there is so many celebrities, the star-studded event happening in Philly?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Kaitlan, there's no doubt that 2016 still hangs over this 2024 campaign, in every way, where Donald Trump first was elected. I remember being at that rally that Hillary Clinton had on Election Eve, and no Democrat really thought it was possible that Donald Trump could win.
That is the biggest difference. There are many Democrats from inside the Harris campaign to just rank-and-file who do believe that Donald Trump can win. So, that is a major difference here.
Of course, so many differences as well, so many things have changed. The Supreme Court decision. The Dobbs decision.
But talking to a variety of senior advisers tonight, there is apprehension and anxiety in the ranks of the Harris campaign. I was just talking to a senior adviser a few moments ago, and they said there is no over-confidence. That loses elections.
So, for all the talk of the good vibes, for all the talk of the optimism, there is some optimism. But they also know that tomorrow, right here in Pennsylvania, they need to get more than half of the votes go out on Election Day. So, that is what we are going to hear from Vice President Harris, when she arrives here. So yes, Lady Gaga is important. But the whole idea of this is to energize volunteers to get them to get out the vote tomorrow.
So Kaitlan, it feels different than eight years ago, no doubt, but for a variety of reasons. And one of those is that Democrats believe that Donald Trump actually can win. They didn't, in 2016.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll be watching to see what lessons there are this time around.
Jeff Zeleny, thank you for that report in Philadelphia.
My next source has been out campaigning, for Vice President Harris.
Maryland governor, Wes Moore, joins me now.
Governor, it's great to have you.
You just heard Jeff's report there. This is the last rally.
GOV. WES MOORE (D-MD): Yes.
COLLINS: How are you feeling about this race now, that we are heading into the final hours here?
MOORE: I feel like the message that the Vice President is putting forward is one that is future-facing. It's one that incorporates all Americans, whether you are Democrat, Republican or Independents.
[21:35:00]
And I do think people should pay attention to what the final message is between these final campaigns. I mean, you're hearing the Vice President giving a message about the future, about what we can do and what we can accomplish, if we focus on things like housing affordability, and if we can focus on things like child care, and if we can focus on things like having an economy that benefits everybody.
And we literally watched Donald Trump give his final rally of this campaign season, the day before the most important day of his life, and he spent half the time insulting people, and calling Adam Schiff, watermelon head. I mean, this is the kind of thing that I think is exhausting to people, and I think this is why people are not just ready for the campaign to be over.
I think they're ready for a new change, and I think they're ready for a new direction. And that's why I think Kamala Harris has such great momentum, right now.
COLLINS: Well, on that note. Senator Bernie Sanders, just a few moments ago, I don't know if you heard him, he was saying, This race shouldn't even be close. It shouldn't even look like it does in the polls right now, given what you just said, the very different messages that we're seeing from them.
Why do you think it's so close?
MOORE: Well, I think that this is a U.S. presidential election. It's going to be close. I think that's the way American elections work. I also think that people should not be spending too much time and handwringing around what the latest polls say.
We are now -- we are now literally a wake-up away from this election. A wake-up away from the American people, after being spoken to, for so long, now it's time for the American people to have their say.
And so, I think it's really important for all of the surrogates and campaign teams, and everybody who's just out there, and who just want a better future, we now have a wake-up for us to put our heads down and get to work. And make sure that we're going out there and door- knocking, going out there and calling our friends and neighbors, making sure they have a voting plan, going out there and volunteering.
It's be -- to ensure that over these next hours, we are going to help determine not just what's going to happen, over the next four years, but over the next 40, and what issues do we care about, and what issues are we willing to fight for.
And so, I think the polls are close. The polls have been close for the past months. That's not going to change.
COLLINS: Yes.
MOORE: But the most important poll that's going to matter is going to be Election Day.
COLLINS: Yes. And of course, what the undecided voters that each campaign was desperately seeking.
And Governor, when CNN hosted a town hall with undecided voters, about two weeks ago, there was one that stuck out to me. Her name is Pam Thistle. She was still debating, then, which candidate to support.
Listen to how she was looking at this option.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM THISTLE, UNDECIDED VOTER: I am very big on details. I'm big on numbers. I am a widow with a 100 percent responsibility for my family, for my kids, for their tuitions, for my bills. And so I do my own taxes. I'm very much on top of every dollar. And so, that is where -- and I'm not really getting it from either candidate, to be honest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And on the eve of the election, Governor, we talked to Pam Thistle.
MOORE: Yes.
COLLINS: She told THE SOURCE team that she plans to decide officially who she's voting for, tomorrow morning, when she wakes up.
She said she was leaning towards Kamala Harris, at this moment. She prefers Trump on the economy and foreign policy. But she said, abortion is important to her as well, and in the end, she might just be more comfortable with Harris.
What do you think the Vice President needs to say to someone, like Pam Thistle--
MOORE: Yes.
COLLINS: --to get her across the finish line?
MOORE: Well, I say to Pam that we hear you and we see you.
And in fact, when I look at Pam, I think about my mom. Because my mom was a widowed, single mom, who then raised three kids on her own. And my mom was another person, who looked heavily at the basics, and was working so hard, in fact, working multiple jobs, in order to be able to support her three children.
And I look at who was speaking to people like my mom. And the answer is Kamala Harris is the only one who's put together a detailed plan, to actually focus on things like affordability, and how to make groceries more affordable.
She's the only person that's put together a plan who's talking about, how can we raise wages? And gone should be the days when you have people who are working jobs, in some cases, multiple jobs, and still living at or below a poverty line.
That she's the only person that's put together a real plan around housing, and knowing that the number one generator of wealth, inside of this country, is actually homeownership. And the number one generation -- a generator of poverty, inside this country, is a lack of -- a lack of housing affordability and home insecurity. And so, she's talking about, how do you turn renters into homeowners, and giving $25,000 to first-time homeowners. She's the only one talking about -- talking to people like my mom.
And so, the thing that I would say to Pam is, I hear you. And I'm a numbers guy too, myself. And if you're worried about, and if you're thinking about not just your future, but the future for your children? There is only one person who has both the capacity and the interest in bringing the country together, and focusing on real economic issues that can give all of us just a little bit of breathing room. And that person is Kamala Harris.
[21:40:00]
COLLINS: Yes. Pam said she was looking at it through a very pragmatic lens.
Governor Wes Moore, thank you, as always, for your time.
MOORE: Thank you, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: We're going to take you live, on the ground, to Grand Rapids, Michigan, right after this. That is where Donald Trump is flying next. That will be his final rally of 2024.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, Donald Trump will close out his campaign, at the stage you see here. That's in Grand Rapids, Michigan. It could be his last campaign rally ever. A full-circle moment for the former President, who ended his previous two bids in that very city, late at night often.
[21:45:00]
CNN's Kristen Holmes is there reporting for CNN.
And Kristen, after that angry speech that Trump had in Pennsylvania, yesterday, where he was musing about the press traveling with him being shot, was saying he never should have left the White House. We heard officials, who were worried and urging him to stay on message.
What are you hearing tonight from the Trump campaign?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Trump campaign is saying that they have kept him on message, for the last several rallies.
I mean, as you noted, it was not just senior advisers telling him to stay on message, but allies, friends, aides, everybody encouraging, both both Chris LaCivita, and Susie Wiles, the campaign managers, as well as the former President, that he had to stop going completely off-script.
Now, it's Donald Trump. And as you know, Donald Trump is almost always off-script. But the fear is that he says anything that is incredibly disrespectful, insulting or even inappropriate, which he has some history of doing, as we know, that that could keep voters at home.
And they are very aware that this election is going to be decided in the margins, by a very small number of voters. They need every single vote that they can get. And they don't need Donald Trump essentially stepping on himself, at this point in the campaign. He has been at multiple rallies, rambling some, but still trying to keep away from some of those incredibly insulting remarks.
But one thing I want to notice here is that one of the other things they told Donald Trump, is that he needs to keep his speeches shorter and be on time.
We're here at this rally venue, in Grand Rapids, which is almost full. It's still filling in. We'll see what happens.
But one of the reasons being that Donald Trump doesn't like it when people report that they are leaving, that guests are leaving his rally. Well, part of the reason that they leave his rallies is because he's often very late, and goes on for a very long time.
He is expected to be roughly an hour and a half late tonight. We'll see if that impacts the crowd. They want this crowd, particularly here in Grand Rapids, to be full of energy and present. That's something that's hard to do, if you keep them waiting for multiple hours, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes, it is.
But we know you will be there waiting for multiple hours, as always, reporting. Kristen Holmes, thank you for that.
And Van, when you look at how these two campaigns are closing. Yes, we have seen reports of Trump's rallies, not filling up or people streaming out. That doesn't mean -- that doesn't say anything about what's going to happen tomorrow, potentially. But it does say something.
But when you just look at how they're closing. I mean, Harris seems to be getting momentum.
JONES: Yes.
COLLINS: Some Trump officials are saying, Well, it's already -- it doesn't matter. Look how many people have already voted.
JONES: Right. Sure.
COLLINS: How are you looking at it?
JONES: I mean, I look at it that she's -- usually, Trump closes strong. Usually, we're ahead, and Trump closes strong. Beat us in 2016, almost caught us in 2020. Now, it looks like Trump might have a little bit of an edge. But he's closing weak, and we're coming on strong.
The question is, tomorrow, does this -- does this energy turn into long lines in Philadelphia, long lines in Pittsburgh, long lines in Milwaukee, and long lines in Detroit? Those are the three states. Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. If this energy shows up tomorrow, on the streets? Then you might see Kamala Harris close this gap. But right now, she is the underdog.
COLLINS: Well, and the gender gap is obviously a massive factor here. Could be decisive.
GANGEL: Yes.
COLLINS: And Jamie, we saw Trump with this kind of wall of women behind him, earlier. Then at another rally, he was introduced with Tulsi Gabbard, Governor Sanders -- Sarah -- Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Megyn Kelly. You see all -- primarily women-only behind him, earlier, when he was in Pennsylvania.
GANGEL: Because he needs those women.
But to Van's point, the gender gap is real. I believe it was your reporting that Trump said, to his campaign, Why don't women like me? This is a real problem for him.
Also, the ground game in Pennsylvania. The Harris campaign is absolutely out there, knocking on doors. Their ground game, I will say that while they don't know what's going to happen in Pennsylvania, they are much more confident about -- the Harris campaign, about Wisconsin. And I was told tonight about Michigan, We think we have this.
So, we'll see. But it's, you know, the gender gap is real for Donald Trump.
COLLINS: Yes. And abortion is a huge issue in Wisconsin.
GANGEL: Yes.
COLLINS: We've seen those ads there.
Shermichael, as you're looking at this, is it -- what worries you the most? Ground game? The closing message? Not being on message. What is it, as a Republican?
SINGLETON: I mean, ground game does worry me. I don't necessarily feel comfortable ceding some of that to outside groups, which the campaign has done.
COLLINS: To Charlie Kirk at Turning Point.
SINGLETON: Yes. That--
COLLINS: They've outsourced a lot of it. SINGLETON: That makes me worried. Because my question becomes, if there are several groups managing this, is there a consolidation of that data, and analytics?
JONES: That's a valid point.
SINGLETON: The campaign sort of driving that. I mean, so that makes me just nervous, having done this, on three presidential campaigns.
[21:50:00]
But I will say, I can see an argument, from the Trump campaign saying, We're attempting to shave off just small percentages of women here and there. Maybe it's the older Jewish women, with some of the ads we've seen. Maybe they're targeting some of those suburban moms, who really care about school choice, and the things that their children are learning. And can that, when merged together, added to Trump's base, lead to a victory in Pennsylvania? Certainly possible.
JONES: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes. We'll be looking at all these numbers, very closely, tomorrow night.
Thank you all so much.
There's been a lot of anticipation and anxiety building ahead of tomorrow. We're also getting warnings from law enforcement officials who say they are not messing around, about tomorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KRASNER, DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF PHILADELPHIA: Anybody who thinks it's time to play militia, F around and find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:55:00]
COLLINS: We're keeping a close eye on Philadelphia tonight. As we have seen, Harris is going to be on stage there soon, to deliver her final rally.
That comes as we heard from the District Attorney in Philadelphia giving a stark warning, about the possible threats, and also voter intimidation that we could see, at the polls, tomorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRASNER: Anybody who thinks it's time to play militia, F around and find out.
If you're going to try to turn an election into some form of coercion, if you're going to try to bully people, bully votes or voters, you're going to try to erase votes, you're going to try any of that nonsense? We're not playing. F around and find out. That's what we're going to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A blunt message there, from the District Attorney in Philadelphia.
My political sources are here.
CNN data guru, Harry Enten.
And Republican strategist and pollster, Kristen Soltis Anderson, is back with us.
Harry, obviously given warnings like that, from the Philly D.A., and also just, what happened in 2020, people are understandably tense and concerned going into tomorrow.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL DATA REPORTER: Yes, I would say so. That spiel also made me a little tense and concerned.
Look, if you ask the American folks, what are their feelings about the 2024 campaign? The clear majority say anxious. Nearly 70 percent say that they are anxious. Compared to well less than half who say excited.
And you know what? You can see, it's turning up in Google searches as well. I decided to search on Google Trends, the word, anxious. It is tied now. More people are searching for the word anxious than ever before. The last month, more people have searched that word, dating all the way back over the last 20 years.
COLLINS: Wow.
ENTEN: So, anxious, definitely a word that describes the American public at this day and hour, with Election Day just about a little over two hours away.
COLLINS: Yes, well, there's no surprise, though.
And I just wonder, when you're polling people and hearing from them, like politicians saying, this is the most important election of your lifetime, democracy is on the line. I mean, you can see why people are anxious about something like this.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: Well, politicians always say, This is the most important election of your lifetime. But it seems like this time around, voters do agree.
There's a question that's been asked of voters in polling, going back decades. In the 90s, when you asked people, Do you believe that who wins this election will make a great deal of a difference to people you know personally, you and your family? Only about 21 to 28 percent of people said yes. But nowadays, when you ask, almost two-thirds of Americans, 62 percent say that they think the result of this election will have a great deal of impact--
COLLINS: Wow.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: --on them personally. That's a very different world than we were in a few decades ago.
COLLINS: Well, and how does this -- is this the same among Democrats and Republicans, Harris and Trump voters? I mean, have we seen that change with different candidates here?
ENTEN: Yes. The Times asked a similar question to that one that the NBC News poll asked, which is essentially, Is this the most important election of your lifetime? And the clear majority of Harris and Trump supporters say that, yes. 72 percent, I believe, for Trump supporters. 70 percent for Harris supporters.
What's so interesting though about this, is the folks who will ultimately determine this election are the undecided voters. And less than a third of undecided voters say it's the most important election of their lifetime.
So, while Harris and Trump supporters are all anxious and nervous about the results, tomorrow, the people who ultimately determine the outcome are folks who really aren't that nervous at all, and probably are wondering more about what they'll get for dinner, tomorrow night.
COLLINS: Well, and you have to -- you know, what you were saying earlier, really resonated about the cone of uncertainty, and just how people are looking at not knowing what's going to happen here.
They've been staring these polls. As Governor Wes Moore pointed out, I think, that nothing has changed or shifted in these numbers in months. Until, as we're coming up on Election Day, looking at this, you have no idea what's going to happen.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: Well, I think some of that anxiety is, frankly, why people look to folks like Harry and I, for what's going to happen.
Because if it's not going to be a big deal, then it doesn't really matter one way or another. But if you think it is the equivalent of a hurricane coming for you, you want to know, Do I need to board up the windows? And that, I think, is why there is so much intense interest in this.
Even, frankly, as I, as a pollster, hear, all the time, people say, I don't really trust the polls anymore. Fair enough. But people still want to know, even if they tell you, I don't trust the polls, because they're so anxious about this election.
COLLINS: Yes.
ENTEN: It's just one of those very funny things. I always get people saying. I'll say my things on air. And they'll say, OK, but really, Harry, who do you think is going to win this election?
I'm going to myself, Oh, because I'm hiding it to the American public. I have the secret answer in my desk, going to unlock the door right now. And here you go. It comes down to me almost, off the mountain top.
We don't know who's going to win. That's what makes this so exciting for folks like me, and what makes it so scary for supporters of both of these candidates. I completely understand. A lot is on the line, heading into tomorrow.
COLLINS: Harry, I've seen your desk. Even if you had the answer to who's going to win the election--
ENTEN: Even I can't find anything (ph).
COLLINS: --you would never be able to find it.
ENTEN: My desk is messier than--
COLLINS: It's chaos.
ENTEN: It's complete chaos. I can't find anything there.
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Yes. It's more chaotic than the polls.
ENTEN: Yes, very good. That was the word I was looking for. More chaotic for the polls, and more chaotic than what's going on in my mind right now.
COLLINS: Yes. Harry Enten. Kristen Soltis Anderson. Great to have you both.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: We'll look at the numbers, of course, as they come in, tomorrow night.
Thank you all so much for joining us.
Be sure to tune in, tomorrow night, for our special election coverage, right here, on CNN.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
