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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Musk, Ramaswamy Face MAGA Uproar While Defending Hiring Foreign Workers; Report: Second Black Box Recovered At Commercial Jet Crash Site; Marianne Williamson Announces Run For DNC Chair. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 26, 2024 - 21:00 ET
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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: "All The Best, All The Worst" of 2024, airs tonight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
The news continues right now. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS."
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy don't often find themselves facing backlash from the MAGA universe. But tonight, there's a major divide between Trump's advisers and his MAGA base.
Also, a second black box was just recovered that could provide new clues about what caused that passenger jet to crash, killing dozens, overseas, along with terrifying new video from inside, as the plane was going down.
And while LeBron James is telling the NFL to back off the NBA's night. Beyonce might like to have a word. Her Christmas halftime show not only broke the internet, but also streaming records.
I'm Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, as President-elect Donald Trump is preparing for a widespread immigration crackdown, when he takes office 25 days from now, we're seeing a crack between some of his top advisers and his MAGA base.
Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy are both facing major blowback, from their own supporters, for not only backing but encouraging offering more visas to highly-skilled foreign workers.
Over the Christmas holiday, Musk posted this, online, saying, Think of this like a pro sports team: if you want your TEAM to win the championship, you need to recruit top talent wherever they may be. He later added, I am referring to bringing in via legal immigration the top 0.1 percent of engineering talent as being essential for America to keep winning.
He's talking about H-1B visas, which allow employers to hire highly- skilled foreign workers. Musk, who himself is from South Africa, said that he once had this kind of visa, and he's arguing that Silicon Valley is facing a shortage of excellent engineering talent, as he put it.
But the annual cap on those kinds of visas, right now, is at 65,000, with another 20,000 for those who get a masters or a doctorate in the U.S.
Musk is being backed up by his partner, in Trump's government efficiency initiative, Vivek Ramaswamy. He says it's a cultural issue that there aren't more competitive engineers in the U.S.
Here's what he said online. A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers. A culture that venerates Cory from "Boy Meets World," or Zach & Slater over Screech in "Saved by the Bell," or 'Stefan' over Steve Urkel in "Family Matters," will not produce the best engineers.
But that argument is not going over well with Trump's MAGA base, certainly not online. Some of them, saying:
We did not ask them to engineer an immigration policy.
Tech wants indentured servants, not high-skilled workers.
You don't even know what MAGA immigration policy is.
Now, Trump himself, who I should note, restricted H-1B visas in his first term, has said on the campaign trail this time around that he did want to make it easier for educated foreigners to work in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: What I want to do, and what I will do, is -- you graduate from a college, I think you should get automatically, as part of your diploma, a green card to be able to stay in this country. And that includes junior colleges, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TRUMP: Anybody graduates from a college -- you go in there for two years or four years. If you graduate, or you get a doctorate degree from a college, you should be able to stay in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: My political sources tonight are:
Former New York City Mayor, Bill de Blasio.
CNN Political Commentator, and Republican strategist, Shermichael Singleton.
And also, CNN Economics and Political Commentator, Catherine Rampell.
And Catherine, you have covered this issue for a long time. Can you just lay out what we're looking at here, in this divide, between what Elon Musk says he thinks would be the best for the United States, and why we are seeing something that we have not seen, frankly, almost at all lately, which is a lot of people in the MAGA universe outright disagreeing with him, arguing with him and breaking with him online.
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, WASHINGTON POST OPINION COLUMNIST: So, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, in this particular case, I think, are exactly right.
America's ability to attract talent from around the world is basically our economic super-power. The fact that in particular, we've been able to attract high-skilled immigrants, quite reliably, in this country, over the past century or so, is why we have this enduring leadership in science, tech and business.
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So, just as an example, of all Fortune 500 companies, about half of them were founded by immigrants or the children of immigrants. And of the Nobel laureates, American Nobel laureates, who have received prizes for the hard sciences this century, about 40 percent of them are immigrants who came to this country.
So, again, this is our super-power. And I'm very glad that Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy recognize it. I very much hope that they are able to influence Donald Trump on this particular issue. But I'm doubtful about it.
Because just as you mentioned, in his first term, Trump was actually quite hostile to legal immigrants, in particular, by the way, high- skilled legal immigrants. He made it really hard for them to come here. Not just those who wanted work authorization, international students who cross subsidized American students, by the way. He basically harassed them, and made it very difficult for them to keep their legal documents in order.
That's because, as much as Trump has said, Oh, he only objects to illegal immigration, he's very much in favor of legal immigration? His policies don't bear that out. And that's partly because Stephen Miller is the one who was the architect of Donald Trump's immigration policies, last time around, and will probably do so again this time around, and is unlikely--
COLLINS: Yes.
RAMPELL: --to adopt the sort of Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy view of things.
COLLINS: Yes, Stephen Miller is getting a huge job in the West Wing. He's been around Trump for the four years he was out of office.
And Shermichael, as the Republican here, I wonder what your view on this is. Because this is happening within the Republican Party.
I mean, these are two top advisers to Trump, the MAGA-world, who are kind of framing this as the true believers, who say, We asked for stricter immigration policies. That didn't mean coming with a carve- out for high-skilled workers that they say are taking American jobs here.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I think, with all due respect to Mr. Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, they should focus on saving federal dollars for the taxpayers, and not immigration policy.
I understand some of the points that Catherine made, and I agree to an extent. But I think the U.S. should focus more on domestic skill development.
Studies also show that H-1B1 exacerbates employers hiring individuals from outside of the country, when they could potentially hire minorities, for an example, which we know there's a shortage in the STEM fields. There are significant number of Americans who I think would love opportunities, if they had the proper training and skills, to operate in those jobs fairly well. So, why not start and focus there.
I'm not of the support or mindset, Kaitlan, that we should let in more than the 60,000-plus that we're already letting into the country. Do we have some deficits? I certainly understand that point, again, to what Catherine was sort of alluding to.
But I think by focusing on increasing domestic skill development, you can decrease the furtherance of those deficits by virtue of saying, You know what? We're going to spend more of our time, more of our dollars, educating our own citizens, to compete for these jobs. Versus, saying, Let's increase to a 100,000 or maybe even more, for employers to bring in individuals from India. Which is a predominant country where many of them come from.
I don't agree with that at all. And I think folks in the MAGA-world have every right to be angry with Vivek and Elon Musk. COLLINS: Yes. Well, that's an interesting point, because I saw that argument being made.
But also, I saw Mark Cuban, Mr. Mayor, responding to that, saying, Well -- and I think we have what he had posted, quoting to Elon Musk and Vivek, saying, Well, everyone argue college is overrated. If you're arguing we need to have more homegrown engineers, don't we need more kids who are going to college?
I mean, I think he's being a bit sarcastic there. But that is kind of the dual arguments that you see, sometimes, from this political orbit.
BILL DE BLASIO, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Look, I'd say, a couple of things going on here.
First of all, I have to say, I agree with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy. I think they're pointing out the reality that we're living.
You could say -- and I hear Shermichael's point. I disagree with it, though, because I think it misses the fact we want to get to the place where we can maximize the use of our own talent this country.
Let's bring in the best of brightest from all around the world. Let's really make our economy stronger. Let's become even more tech- dominant. That's the way, in fact, to elevate the whole country, and to create more opportunity for Americans of all kinds in the tech field. So, I don't know why on earth we wouldn't want to grab all the talent out there, especially because if we don't, our competitors will.
I think it's also fascinating that we're seeing this kind of open conflict, and I think it's going to be the first of many. And of course, that speaks to the question of Elon Musk's role.
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I think really soon we're going to see more divergence between Elon Musk and Donald Trump. It's natural, given each of them having the power they have. I think that's going to be a very, very important storyline, in 2025 that these two people, who are appear to be allies, but really have very different interests, start to diverge issue by issue.
We saw it also during the recent budget fight. I think we're going to see it, on issues like artificial intelligence, where -- and climate, where Musk has been in a different place than Trump. That's going to have ramification for how successful Trump can be in general.
And then finally, I mean, look for the MAGA-world to be turning on their own this quickly. This is also an interesting question. They almost look like Democrats here, you know, it's like, so. I say this lovingly, as a Democrat, like we have an ability to eat our own very quickly sometimes.
Well, this is fascinating. Here are these heroes, just a few minutes ago, and they say one thing that a lot of the MAGA-world disagrees with, and suddenly they're being villainized. That's not good for that coalition.
COLLINS: Yes, I think that's interesting in terms of what the West Wing will look like too. I mean, Elon Musk is not coming in, Catherine, but -- in an official capacity. But he's in the room. He's always at Mar-a-Lago. Trump jokes about how he's always often there. He has dinner with him regularly.
Between that and the tech moguls who have been parading down to Mar-a- Lago, to also have dinner with him. I wonder what that looks like with this divide that is so clear between Stephen Miller, and what he has been advocating for, and what we know he did in the first term, and what this looks like with a new big adviser in Trump's ear, like Elon Musk.
RAMPELL: Trump seems to listen to the last person he heard from. So, if that is Elon Musk, it might be Elon Musk. If it's Stephen Miller? And as you point out, Stephen Miller will have a very powerful job in the next administration. It's probably going to be him.
Frankly, I don't think Trump pays all that much attention to the nitty-gritty of policies that are taking effect, under his watch, which is probably why he doesn't even realize that last time around, he did a lot more to reduce legal immigration than illegal immigration, because Stephen Miller was running the show.
I think that whatever Trump says he wants to do, the actual people who are executing the policy, at the end of the day, will be making the decisions.
COLLINS: Yes, and I should note, a Jared Kushner is not going to be working in the West Wing based on what we know now. He was, when they crafted an immigration policy, the first time around, it didn't go anywhere legislatively, but there were those different components in it.
And Shermichael, so what does this look like in the end, in terms of, we heard so much from Trump, on the campaign trail, about illegal immigration, and the plans for that. We talked to Tom Homan about that, last week here, his border czar.
What does it look like for something like this? Is there a plan that's being articulated here?
SINGLETON: Look, I'm not against legal immigration. I think most individuals who voted for Trump aren't necessarily against legal immigration, as it pertains to H-1B.
But Americans didn't vote for Vivek Ramaswamy. They didn't vote for Elon Musk. They voted for Donald Trump, in part, because of his tough stance on immigration illegally, but also because, I assume, they believed that the President-elect wouldn't increase the number of individuals coming into the country, even legally, that could potentially negatively impact or disproportionately affect Americans, as it pertains to certain types of jobs.
And so again, I go back to my original premise. We need to focus on domestic skill development. I understand what former Mayor de Blasio was saying. We got to bring people in, with the goal of getting to that point maybe in the decade or so. I get that.
But why not limit the cap where it's at, and focus over the next decade of increasing skills within our own people? Most Americans don't want to see good-paying American jobs going to people from India or China.
DE BLASIO: Yes. But wait a minute. Wait a minute. The competition--
RAMPELL: Just to -- just to be clear--
DE BLASIO: --the global competition is happening right now. And if we don't grab that talent? Shermichael, I hear you. But if you don't grab the talent now, someone else does. And if you really want to grow the economy, so you'll have that opportunity for Americans, why would you leave talent on the table? Grab what you can now, and build toward the goal you're talking about. It's not either or.
COLLINS: Catherine, final word?
RAMPELL: Yes, I would add that there's basically no evidence that bringing in high-skilled talent, over the past century, has reduced employment for Americans. In fact, the opposite.
DE BLASIO: Right.
RAMPELL: That these are complimentary jobs, and that they end up creating these high skill set immigrants who come in, whether they're founding Fortune 500 companies or otherwise, end up creating a lot of opportunities for American workers, and making American scientists more productive.
SINGLETON: But you -- what Americans?
COLLINS: Yes. OK.
SINGLETON: What Americans? Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait a minute. What Americans? Because, again, to the point that I made earlier, we know that studies suggest that minorities are underrepresented in these fields. There are a host of other Americans, who are underrepresented in these fields.
RAMPELL: There are--
SINGLETON: So perhaps they are creating jobs for some Americans. But it certainly aren't Americans that I know are people who look like me, Catherine, with all due respect. So again, I am vehemently against this. We're allowing enough of these people to come into the country as is.
RAMPELL: These are not substitutes.
SINGLETON: Why do we need more?
RAMPELL: These are complements. These are complements. These are not substitutes.
SINGLETON: Well, I don't think they're complements at all.
RAMPELL: I agree. We need to -- we need to improve the pipeline for--
COLLINS: Yes.
RAMPELL: --underrepresented talent in tech.
COLLINS: OK.
RAMPELL: That doesn't mean kicking out all the global talent.
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COLLINS: Well, we've got one Democrat at the table who agrees with--
SINGLETON: We're not kicking them out.
COLLINS: Hold on, Shermichael.
SINGLETON: We're letting 60,000-plus (ph) already in. That's nuts.
COLLINS: Hold on, Shermichael.
We've got one Democrat at the table who agrees with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy.
We have another Democrat who is joining us now. That is the Governor of Colorado, Jared Polis, who is with me.
And Governor, I'm so glad you're here. Because you weighed in on this yourself tonight, saying that you also believe both Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy are correct.
You said that, We should welcome elite engineers and amazing innovators from everywhere to deploy their talents here to make America more prosperous. But, you added, Welcoming hard-working people with skills in farming, construction, hospitality also benefits us.
What's your take on the argument that you just heard?
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Well, look, they get it partially right. Absolutely. There's millions of Americans that work for companies that were founded by immigrants. Those jobs wouldn't exist today if we didn't let those immigrants in.
It's amazing that we can attract the best and hardest working people from across the world. Yes, part of that picture are entrepreneurs, the top engineers. By the way, if we don't allow them to come here, the jobs will follow them overseas, and that's where the employment will grow.
But the second part of that picture is the contributions of immigrants to other sectors of our economy, meaning, ag workers in the field, Colorado's biggest export, beef, potatoes. Supporting construction industry. If you want to increase the cost of homes, increase the cost of groceries, a good way to do that is not allowing people in, to pick the crops and build a home.
So, immigrants contribute across the entire economy. I hope that Elon Musk and Vivek Rama-- (inaudible) but they certainly seem to get the contributions around entrepreneurs and engineers. And frankly, that's a start.
COLLINS: Well, on this issue, seeing your agreement with them that there's not always a ton of overlap in that area. On immigration, I mean, he's talking about illegal immigration. Trump has called you, a coward and a fraud. We talked to you, when that happened, about things that are happening in your community in Colorado.
But on this issue, given we have not heard a lot from Trump, on legal immigration, this time around. In 2.0 -- Trump 2.0, what is your hope for these voices and maybe moderating voices, and some people's view, with an Elon Musk and a Vivek Ramaswamy, in terms of what Trump does.
POLIS: Look, the President-elect, Trump, said that we should provide a visa or working permit to everybody who graduates from an American college. I agree. Let's do that. I mean, we have foreign students, who come here who study. All we're doing is subsidizing other countries, if we're forcing them to go back and not deploy the talents and skills they got here in our country.
I hope he listens, on immigration, to people like Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, but also takes into account his desire to reduce grocery prices, to reduce housing prices.
If he wants to accomplish that, immigrants play such an important role in our economy, across the continuum, across the skills continuum, right, from low-skills jobs, hard-working, to high-skills jobs, founders, engineers. They're really a big part of what makes America as prosperous as we are.
And as your last panel has said, in many ways, it's our super-power that we have the best and brightest and hardest working people from across the world that want to come here, and live the American Dream, and be part of making our country safer, stronger and wealthier.
COLLINS: As Governor, how are you preparing for what both of those fronts could look like, in terms of illegal immigration and legal immigration. I mean, this comes as today, we had schools urging international students to maybe come back early from break to -- in case there is a travel-ban-esque moment, in the beginning of Trump's administration, like there was eight years ago.
How are you personally preparing for that?
POLIS: Look, we have world-class university here, University of Colorado at Boulder, Colorado State University. Students from across the world come here.
And one of the stupidest things we do as a nation is when they get their degree, or their graduate degree, it could be a PhD in physics, in engineering, we literally say, You're not allowed to work in this country, you have to go somewhere else. And guess what? In a global economy, the jobs follow them, back to India, back to China. It hurts our economy, hurts job creation. And it's one of the dumbest things that we do.
Look, as a governor, as a state, we don't control immigration. But all I can do is encourage people like Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, the business community, to speak up and say, Look, immigrants are an important part of our economy.
And of course, if President-elect Trump wants to go after criminals, whether they were born here, or whether they were born in another country, the State of Colorado will help him do that. And if there's criminals in our state, and there are, they were born in another country? We want to apprehend, deport them and hold them accountable for the law.
At the same time, so many immigrants contribute so much to our economy, whether it's keeping groceries affordable, keeping homes affordable, or helping to start tomorrow's great company that could employ tens of thousands of Americans with good-paying jobs.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what this looks like, in 25 days from now.
Governor. Catherine. Shermichael. Mayor. Thank you all for being here.
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Up next. What a difference almost four years makes, and I'm talking about big companies that condemned Trump when he was president, last time, for January 6th. Now they're showering him with millions of dollars to fund his next inauguration.
Also tonight, there are new clues and new video from that deadly plane crash in Kazakhstan. Early indications suggest a Russian system may have been responsible.
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COLLINS: Some breaking news this hour. As a second black box has been recovered at the site of that crash of a passenger jet in Kazakhstan. As CNN has learned, the United States believes it was a Russian anti- aircraft system that could be the cause of that deadly crash, of the Azerbaijan Airlines flight.
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You can see this video that shows the jet plummeting and exploding into a ball of fire, ultimately killing 38 people, who were onboard. That crash happened just shortly after a Ukrainian drone strike in southern Russia, some experts have noted.
And if you see the plane's path, they had taken off from Azerbaijan's capital. It was supposed to fly to Chechnya. But the plane had to make a hard emergency landing in Kazakhstan, all the way across the sea, as you can see here from the flight pattern. Now, we've obtained video from inside the cabin, moments before the crash happened. This is from a male passenger, who was on board heard reciting a prayer. Now, we have not been able to verify the man's identity, or if he was one of the 29 survivors from this crash.
But as we're digging into all of this, my sources tonight are:
The former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Bill Taylor.
And also, Washington Post Foreign Policy and National Security Columnist, Josh Rogin.
And it's great to have both of you here, as we're trying to really suss out as many details from this as possible.
And Josh, you see the video that was taken from this crash. It shows holes in the plane's fuselage. And we can't independently verify why that happened or what caused it.
But if the U.S. believes it was taken down by an anti-aircraft system, how does that comport with the Russian excuse that we've heard, that this plane hit a flock of birds while it was in the air?
JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST, AUTHOR, "CHAOS UNDER HEAVEN": Right. It seems to contradict the Russian government's assertion.
There's actually two Russian government assertions in the day since the crash happened. First, that the plane was diverted because of weather. And second, that it hit a flock of birds. Neither of which things would cause dozens of shrapnel-like holes in the tail of the plane that was found.
So, we have to wait for the investigations. There's going to be a few of them. Some, Russia are going to be involved in. Some, Russia won't be involved in.
But it seems pretty clear that the Russian government has been lying from the start, and it continues to lie, which, of course, is what they did, the last time they allegedly shot down a passenger plane by accident, in 2014, the Malaysian Airlines flight. So, we have to go into this, knowing that this will be a long process, and that the Russian government will lie from start to finish.
COLLINS: Well, yes, and given that history, that you can't trust them on an investigation, Ambassador. When we've learned that an hour before this happened, Ukraine was striking in southern Russia. I mean, where does that immediately take your mind?
WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE, VICE PRESIDENT FOR RUSSIA AND EUROPE, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: Well so, what the Russians try to do is disrupt those Ukrainian drones that are coming toward them, and they do this with electronic jamming. They do this in various ways that try to disrupt the Ukrainians' ability to hit military targets. But when they do that, they affect aviation all around. So what they normally should do, one would think, is close the airport. If they're going -- if they're going to disrupt all the communications in that area, trying to disrupt the Ukrainian drones, then they ought to close the airport, and they clearly didn't do that. Incompetence.
COLLINS: Well, Josh, when you when -- does Russia have a responsibility to do that, to close the airport, to close airspace, if they're trying to shoot down those drones?
ROGIN: Absolutely. First of all, they have a responsibility not to start a war with Ukraine in the first place, and they have a responsibility to end that war right now. And then, the Ukrainians wouldn't have to send any drones anywhere, and everybody would be safe and fine, and those people who tragically died would still be alive today. So, all of the responsibility comes back to the Russian government, one way or the other.
But Ambassador Taylor is exactly right. If you're waging war, then you should tell the passenger planes, not to show up. It seems pretty obvious. But if you think about it, for the Russians' perspective, they don't want to admit that the Ukrainian attacks are effective, so they don't want to talk about them, because they live in a world of lies.
Vladimir Putin created a world of lies for his people. And occasionally, that world of lies is punctured by real-world events like this one, and that's why we're in the situation we're in right now.
COLLINS: Yes, and if it was in fact that anti-aircraft system? Ambassador, you have were the Ambassador to Ukraine. You've long- studied Putin. What does it tell you about Putin's authority, and where that stands in this moment, and the idea that something like this could happen on his watch?
TAYLOR: Well, Kaitlan, Putin does not have total control over the military. That's clear. I mean, he's seen a -- he's seen a mutiny. He's seen big problems within his chain of command. So, yes, he's got -- he's got these kinds of problems all throughout. And this is going to have an effect on his ability.
Josh is exactly right. He could -- Putin could stop this, right now, and not have this problem. But he has elected not to. He's elected to continue to push this. And so, he will continue to reap those rewards.
COLLINS: Josh, what a lot of people have drawn comparisons with is Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which was shot down over Russia, killed almost 300 people, 298 to be exact. And the U.S. found it was the Russian Federation brigade who had fired a surface-to-air missile, in that moment. Russia still denies any involvement in that, though. I mean, if that just shows you?
[21:30:00]
So, we're looking at the black boxes. They've now got the second one. They're going to be looking into this. It just shows you where this could -- there could possibly never be any definitive answer behind this, certainly not from Russia.
ROGIN: Right, the Russians won't admit their culpability. But the investigations will proceed. They are going to take years.
I remember covering the 2014 shootdown of the Malaysian Airlines flight. That happened in Ukraine. The Russians controlled that part of Ukraine at the time, but the Ukrainians were in charge of the investigation. They delegated the authority to the Dutch, because the Dutch had the most civilians onboard. The Dutch spent years and prosecuted and convicted the Russians who hit those buttons. Because there are actual human beings who are responsible for this.
And if this was even an accidental Russian missile launch, against a passenger flight, there are human beings who can be held criminally responsible.
So, those prosecutions happened. It took years. The Russians didn't actually show up for the prosecutions. But the point is that justice will proceed and evidence will be presented.
And in this case, we have a lot more evidence, because thank God, 29 people survived, and we have all the video, and we have all this information. So, we can't trust any one investigation. Any investigation that the Russians are involved in will necessarily be a little bit tainted. But the sum total of all these investigations will lead to the truth, even if the Russians never actually admit it.
COLLINS: Yes, and this comes, Ambassador, as just looking at this dynamic with Putin, this investigation, whether or not they ever admit it.
I was looking at Trump's Truth Social today, which is often kind of an indication of where his head is at, what he's thinking about. He was quoting Putin from his end-of-the-year press conference, where he was talking about talks with the U.S., once Trump is back in office.
In 25 days from now, Trump retakes power. What would you be looking for in that situation, in terms of how quickly a sit-down like that could happen, amid what's going on, right now, with this plane crash, but also just the broader war.
TAYLOR: I think this demonstrates the Putin that Trump is going to have to be dealing with. And it may well be that President Trump will have some leverage over that Putin.
Putin will be diminished. He'll be embarrassed by this. President Trump could use that relationship, in order to push him, again, to stop this war. President Trump may have leverage on President Putin to stop this insane war in Ukraine.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what that looks like.
Ambassador Bill Taylor. Josh Rogin. Thank you both for your expertise on this. TAYLOR: Thanks, Kaitlan.
ROGIN: Anytime.
COLLINS: This comes as, tonight, in Washington, Democrats are regrouping, as Republicans are set to take control of both Congress and the White House. One former Democratic presidential candidate thinks that she could be the one to help her party rebrand itself. That's ahead.
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COLLINS: The Democratic Party is looking for new leadership. And self- help author, Marianne Williamson, is raising her hand tonight.
Williamson who, of course, ran two unsuccessful, but long-shot campaigns for president, including at one point, where she unsuspended her 2024 campaign, has now joined a growing field, to try to lead the Democratic National Committee. Whoever gets that job is going to be tasked with regrouping and rebranding the party, after a devastating election cycle.
I want to get straight to THE SOURCE, tonight, with one former Democratic nominee for Governor of Arkansas, who is also running to be the party's Vice Chair.
Chris Jones is here with me now.
And it's great to have you here.
Because as you're looking at this, I think there's a question of Marianne Williamson, and how much support she would get from party insiders. But as someone who is running to be the Vice Chair, who do you want to see in a top spot? What kind of qualities do you think that person should have?
CHRIS JONES, CANDIDATE FOR DNC VICE CHAIR, FORMER NASA ENGINEER: Yes. Thanks for having me here. And Happy Hanukkah and Happy Kwanzaa to everyone.
Look, I am honored to be in the process. And I think we should be grateful, and we're lucky, to have such a field of dynamic leaders. Other than that, I'm staying out of the process, until we have a Chair selected.
COLLINS: But in terms of just what kind of qualities you'd like to see that person have. I should note, the reason, Jaime Harrison, who is currently the Chair, he's not running again, and that's why this is such an open position.
And we've seen a lot of the names that have joined in. You don't have to pick a favorite name. I can understand why you wouldn't. But, at this moment, for your party, what do you think Democrats need right now? JONES: Well, look, so here's the reality. We are at a moment in time, where we have to not only rebrand, but also rebuild.
And we're facing a GOP that is literally being led by Tesla, and the Democrats are on horse and bunny. We're literally riding a horse and bunny. So for us, it cost us the White House this time. But if we don't modernize and get our act together, then it will cost us, democracy and everything.
So, I believe that a Chair, of course, we need to focus on our core constituency. The working-class, rural folks, Black voters, youth. We need to have fresh ideas. We need early investment in the 57 states and territories.
Again, we need to modernize and really think about how we utilize technology, and I'll talk in a second about why -- that's why I'm running for Vice Chair. While we also need to expand our reach and really fight every race early. If there's a Chair that's willing to stand up and do that, then that's the Chair that I support.
And I believe, for me, my unique spot is, look, I'm a Morehouse and MIT trained NASA scientist. I'm literally a rocket scientist. And folks can find out more about me at vicechairjones.com. But I believe that it's our modernization and technology that will really propel us into the 21st Century, because we have to fight with 21st Century tools.
COLLINS: What do you think is the biggest thing your party got wrong in this cycle?
[21:40:00]
JONES: I don't think there's one thing. There were many things that we got wrong, and it didn't start with this cycle. There are also many things that we got right.
But if you look back and you hear voters and Americans saying that, that they haven't heard from Democrats in 20 years? When I ran for governor, I traveled to all 75 counties in my state, and I knocked on doors everywhere. And folks said, Look, I haven't seen or heard from a Democrat since Bill Clinton.
When you have messages out there? I literally talked to folks who said Democrats eat babies and worship Bael. Now that's misinformation and disinformation. And if we're not on the offensive, fighting back against that, then that information is a seed that's planted (inaudible).
COLLINS: Chris Jones, I think we might have lost our connection there. We'll try to get that re-established, as we look at this, and of course, the state of the dynamic of the Democratic Party and what this looks like, in this moment. He is running for Vice Chair.
Of course, last week on this show, you heard from David Hogg, who is the Parkland School shooting survivor, who is also running. Listen to what David Hogg had to say to me, in our interview, about what he thinks a Vice Chair, or just the Democratic Party generally, needs to do differently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID HOGG, CANDIDATE FOR DNC VICE CHAIR: Increasingly, the Democratic Party, as a whole, is a party of consultants and sycophants, frankly.
And we have become the party of the consulting-class and left behind the working-class in that process. Not in terms of our policies, necessarily. I think we've done great things to deliver for working- class people. But we have failed to communicate with those people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Clearly, a shared frustration among many of the people who are running for these top leadership roles.
It was great to hear from Chris Jones. We will certainly have him back more on the program, as he is in this race.
When we come back, there is a huge event that happened yesterday that everyone was watching. Netflix says it broke streaming records with the Christmas Day football spectacular, not just because of the football, though, also because of quite the performance from Beyonce. More ahead.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Tonight, we are witnessing a major about-face from companies that are now lining up to fund Donald Trump's inauguration.
The Wall Street Journal reports that nearly a dozen of the companies that are writing big checks, to support next month's festivities, had pledged to outright suspend or reconsider political donations, after the January 6th attack on the Capitol four years ago.
Now, four years later, Trump is on track to rake in more money than any incoming president has had for their inauguration.
In return, CNN has learned that, big donors are attending a candlelight dinner with Trump and Melania, they're getting face-time with members of the incoming cabinet at a private reception, and also VIP tickets to a ball around the inauguration.
We've been watching as CEO after CEO has flocked to Mar-a-Lago to meet with Trump, prompting him to declare on social media, and at a press conference that he held, that everybody wants to be his friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The first term, everybody was fighting me. In this term, everybody wants to be my friend. I don't know, my personality changed or something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Now, we'll continue to track that and watch what that inauguration looks like, when it comes to fruition. Obviously, we've seen business, no stranger to Trump.
And speaking of tonight, we are also getting a better idea of how many people were watching, when this happened yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEYONCE, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER AND BUSINESSWOMAN: I'm so honored to be in Texas right now. Let's take it to the floor now. Y'all see. Yo. It's only right that we do "Texas Hold 'Em" for the first time in Houston, Texas, on Christmas. Y'all help me sing.
(BEYONCE PERFORMS TEXAS HOLD 'EM)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Of course, there has been a ton of buzz generating from that halftime performance by Beyonce, during their Netflix's NFL debut. And we are now seeing they have the numbers to back it up.
We're going to break it all down, with Cari Champion, right after a quick break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEYONCE PERFORMS TEXAS HOLD 'EM)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The buzz from Beyonce's halftime show, during Netflix's NFL debut, now has numbers to back it up, as we are learning tonight that the entire program brought in a whopping 65 million viewers total, across both of its NFL broadcast and Beyonce's halftime performance. That is because Netflix spent $150 million to bring football to its viewers' homes. It looks tonight like that investment paid off.
Here to talk about it is CNN's Contributor, and veteran sports broadcaster, Cari Champion.
And it's so great to have you here, Cari.
Because I was thinking about this yesterday, when I was at home and watching this with the family. Netflix has never aired an NFL game before yesterday, let alone two games and a halftime show that I think rivals all halftime shows.
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, SPORTS BROADCASTER AND JOURNALIST: Right.
COLLINS: I just wonder what you made of the numbers as they came in, if you were surprised by what you saw.
CHAMPION: I think the numbers for me -- for Netflix, I think, it was a win. Their first time streaming NFL game. I think that live broadcast television of yesteryear is old. People will be looking and learning how to stream and make it flawless and seamless. This seemed to be OK.
But I do think the numbers, in terms of the average amount of viewers, wasn't that different than it was for people who were watching on cable, and in traditional broadcast television networks than last year.
What's interesting about what they can do with Netflix now is because the NFL would love, obviously, their product to be global. I think Netflix is going to have the opportunity to really become a home for the NFL.
Although, although, I don't know if you shared this earlier, LeBron said the NBA deserves Christmas Day, because the NFL has everything else, in short. But I do believe that this is going to be a perfect marriage.
COLLINS: Yes. Do you think it changes things in terms of, of just the massive investment that we saw, that I think a lot of people were watching that to see, does this -- does this pay off? I mean, a lot of this also had to do with, it stretched outside of just football, with the Beyonce halftime show.
CHAMPION: Right.
COLLINS: What the numbers showed is that viewership peaked, actually. It was a -- it went up to 27 million viewers during--
CHAMPION: Yes.
COLLINS: --during something like that. I mean, what does it look like when Beyonce is not there?
[21:55:00]
CHAMPION: Oh, well, that's the -- oh, Kaitlan, great question. And here's my thought process.
What Beyonce did yesterday is really set a new standard for what people will pay for a halftime show, during Christmas Day. Advertisers will see how the money was made. People will be cloying (ph) for these opportunities.
And while we called it the Beyonce Bowl, if you will, there will be other artists of her caliber in her atmosphere that will try to do the same. Because what she did was expectation set, like that is the expectation for Christmas Day halftime show, from this moment, moving forward. And it's so very lucrative. So, I think that we're going to see a lot more of that. There's a new tradition that was established yesterday, and I think it had everything to do. She did 14 minutes. I was -- I was out of breath. I was like, how -- how in the world? How does one do that? How does one do that? It was amazing.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, and it was something that, like everyone was talking about, sitting home with their families, is a little bit for everyone.
But on what you mentioned about LeBron. I'm so glad you brought that up, because obviously, you know, Christmas games with NFL were not on the schedule until a few years ago. And seeing this now with the NBA, that's been a thing since the 40s.
And I want you to just listen to what LeBron had to say about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEBRON JAMES, NBA PLAYER: I love the NFL. I love the NFL. But Christmas is our day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: He's obviously joking, maybe not joking. But leagues are competing for viewers. And so what does that fight look like in the sense of what we're watching on Christmas Day?
CHAMPION: Well, I definitely don't think he was joking. I think he needs it, because the NBA, the ratings -- the ratings have been down for the NBA, because we need more storylines. We need more people like the LeBrons, if you will, to be playing in the league.
But I think the NFL is competing, and I think they have a lot of places to actually send their product. For so long, we've watched him do these games overseas, the one game here in London, one game here and other places, just to bring more viewers.
I have to tell you, it is a Wild Wild West, because Amazon is in the game. Netflix is definitely going to be in the game. YouTube is in the game. I think streaming is going to be the new home for the NFL, because this particular product really does. It's a Goliath of a product, and it's always King. People are always watching football.
I think basketball and other sports, as they see what the product of the NFL has done, they are going to try to replicate whatever that is. Maybe it's fewer games, maybe it's taking more games overseas. But they're going to try to replicate that, because there's so much money to be made. A $150 million? It's out of this world for just six games.
COLLINS: Yes, it's wild to see, but also to see the return on that investment.
CHAMPION: Yes.
COLLINS: Cari Champion, we'll keep watching to see what it looks like. Thank you for joining me tonight, as always. CHAMPION: Of course. Happy holidays. Yes.
COLLINS: And speaking of watching, there is a new CNN Film that is looking at the storied career of one of the most influential artists of all time, Luther Vandross.
From his formative years in Harlem, appearing in the Apollo Theater house band, and also the first episodes of "Sesame Street," to his rise as the king of love songs, using a wealth of archives, he tells his own story, along with the voices of his closest musical collaborators and his friends.
Here's a sneak peek of the film.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUTHER VANDROSS, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER AND RECORD PRODUCER: Like from out of a dream.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
VANDROSS: And in this dream, there was a major diva in the wings.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
VANDROSS: Waiting for me.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
VANDROSS: Oh, yes.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
VANDROSS: She will appear.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
VANDROSS: Out of somewhere.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
MARIAH CAREY, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER AND RECORD PRODUCER: I was so nervous because I had never, probably played in a place that big before. (CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
CAREY: It's the beginning of the performance, and Luther is like, I'm seeking out a diva, and she's here, and she's there.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
CAREY: And I really was honored, when he brought me out to sing with him.
(LUTHER VANDROSS PERFORMS "ENDLESS LOVE")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During that time, we had this whole thing where the way that we used to get gigs is we would attend each other's session. And if incidentally they happened to need somebody to fill in, Oh my friend's a singer he could definitely do it. And we always brought Luther.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that looks great.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Luther started doing what he does which is start singing. When David put music on, he starts, you know, whatever humming. And David was like, Wow, this guy's great.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: David knew talent, and he whispered to me, he said, I love this guy. And I'm like, What's not to love?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: Be sure to tune in, because what is not to love. "Luther: Never Too Much" will premiere here on New Year's Day, 08:00 p.m. on CNN.
Thank you all so much for joining us. I'll see you back here, tomorrow night.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
