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The Source with Kaitlan Collins
Jimmy Carter Memorial Services To Take Place Over Six Days; Retired General: "Elon Musk Is A National Security Risk"; Trump Endorses Rep. Mike Johnson To Remain House Speaker. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 30, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDY COHEN, AMERICAN TV SHOW HOST: --you are in the bar, and there are cats everywhere.
JOHN MAYER, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER AND GUITARIST: Yes.
COHEN: They are licking each other.
MAYER: There are cats.
COHEN: They're -- I mean -- yes.
MAYER: Yes.
This is a place you can come, enjoy a drink or two, and talk to cats. It's a cat bar.
COHEN: And, John--
MAYER: I mean, I don't know how much more clear I can be about the objective of this place.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Oh, gosh. Yes, we do it, every year, keeps coming around.
Again, the New Year's Eve live coverage from Times Square begins at 08:00 p.m. Eastern. Yes, we are drinking this year. Right here on CNN.
The news continues. "THE SOURCE" starts now. See you tomorrow night, I hope.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN BROWN: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Brand-new details on how America will remember President Carter, including a eulogy written about Jimmy Carter by another former President who died before he did, and the stories that fill out his legacy, from installing solar panels on the White House, to choosing a wrongly-convicted felon as his nanny. Also, a provocative Op-Ed declares Elon Musk as a security risk. Its author, one of the most respected retired military leaders in America, he is here, live.
And President-elect Trump endorses Mike Johnson to be reelected Speaker of the House. But will it be enough to stave off a right-wing revolt?
I'm Pamela Brown, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Well tonight, the nation remembers a legacy that, much like Jimmy Carter himself, refused to be bound by expectations.
Plans for his funeral, like the man himself, both down home and presidential. Services will begin, where his story did, at the family farm in Plains, Georgia. Saturday, a motorcade will carry his body past the homestead, pausing as the historic farm bell rings 39 times. He'll then stop in Atlanta with services at the Carter Presidential Center, before moving on to Washington, D.C.
His body will lie in state at the Capitol, beginning Tuesday, January 7th, until a state funeral on January 9th. While next Thursday will officially be a national day of mourning.
The core of President Carter's life was dedicated to looking forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY CARTER, 39TH U.S. PRESIDENT: There's a fear that our best years are behind us. But I say to you that our nation's best is still ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: While, President Biden will deliver a eulogy, and one of at least three written. The other two were authored by Carter's vice president, Walter Mondale, and his predecessor, Gerald Ford, who both died before he did. Well, those will be read by their sons.
The current President's relationship with Carter goes back to when then-Senator Biden stepped forward as the first to endorse Carter's presidential campaign. The move, even more remarkable, given the former Georgia governor's unlikely chances of winning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Carter first visited Iowa, one year ago, few people had even heard of him, much less thought about supporting him for President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Carter, in life and in death, proved an outlier. The man who would not let his work be confined to four years in the Oval Office, lived to see an age no president ever has. He was 100-years-old.
But even as far back as 1998, he told Larry King, he didn't fear death. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, AMERICAN AUTHOR, RADIO HOST AND TV HOST: You think about dying?
CARTER: One of the chapters in my book is about the inevitability with which we have to face the end of our life on Earth. And I tried to reassure the readers, not only saying almost exactly what Billy Graham did, that people with deep religious faith don't fear death. And I don't fear death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Jimmy Carter wore his faith for all to see.
From the earliest moments of his presidency, he wanted to be seen as a man of the people, as evidenced by his decision to get out of the presidential limo, and walk the inaugural parade route.
But it wasn't always that way. The American people will get to say their farewells of public viewings in Atlanta and D.C., as well as along procession routes in Washington and in Georgia.
Born and raised in the humble farmlands of Southwest Georgia, the peanut farmer turned president will be laid to rest in the red clay of his hometown.
And he leaves behind a record, both complex and straight-forward as the man himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARTER: Well, the best thing I ever did was marrying Rosalynn. That's the pinnacle of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Kate Andersen Brower is the Author of "Team of Five: The Presidents Club in the Age of Trump," and "The Residence: Inside the Private World of the White House." And she interviewed Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter as well.
Kate, it's so great to have you on.
[21:05:00]
So President Carter, when you look back at his life, he was so unique among modern presidents in many ways. As you have been reflecting today, what stands out the most to you about him?
KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, AUTHOR, "EXPLORING THE WHITE HOUSE," AUTHOR, "THE RESIDENCE": I mean, his authenticity, you know. They lived in a small ranch, a modest ranch house in Plains, Georgia. He grew up without running water, in Archery, Georgia, a very rural part of the state. And he rose to the highest office in the land. It's he's truly self-made. And I think his authenticity is what sets him apart in the White House and then also after. I mean, the White House was almost a stepping stone for his post-White House life. And I don't think you can say that about anybody -- any other former President.
BROWN: Isn't that interesting?
ANDERSEN BROWER: Yes.
BROWN: I mean, he really sort of redefined what a post-presidential life should look like.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Oh, totally. I mean, he made his money writing books. He wrote more than 30 books.
BROWN: Wow. I didn't -- more than 30.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Yes, I know. It's amazing. And he didn't make money from paid speeches. He didn't sit on corporate boards. He gave his life to serving others, and he -- almost eradicating Guinea worm disease, river blindness. I mean, these are -- these are things that he felt deeply. To him, faith was a verb, not a noun. And I think he showed that in his actions, not just his words.
BROWN: Tell us a little bit more about starting to eradicate Guinea worm disease. I think a lot of our viewers may not know what he did and what that was, and that kind of thing.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Yes, I mean, this gets back to his Christianity and wanting to help people globally. And he improved the drinking water in certain parts of Africa, where this awful disease happens if you drink tainted water. And worms actually -- it's very painful, the disease. Worms actually come out of your body. It's really awful.
BROWN: Oh, gosh.
ANDERSEN BROWER: And he saw people suffering, and he felt so much empathy for them. And Rosalynn did too. I mean, I don't think you can talk about him without talking about her. The Carter Center was a joint effort between the two of them. She was right by his side, traveling around the world. Also building houses with Habitat for Humanity.
And when I interviewed them, I was just kind of struck by how modest they were, and how real they were. And they offered water in Solo cups to me, you know?
BROWN: Wow.
ANDERSEN BROWER: I mean, just like a normal -- normal people. And I think we don't see that a lot in the presidency. We hold them up on this pedestal. And these were two real people who loved each other and wanted to serve the country.
BROWN: That's so interesting. He really did. I mean, sort of wasn't into the pomp and circumstance-- ANDERSEN BROWER: No.
BROWN: --of the presidency at all.
ANDERSEN BROWER: No.
BROWN: And after.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Yes.
BROWN: And he wasn't really a person of politics, right? He wasn't a big political guy.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Yes. He was an outsider totally.
He sold the Sequoia, which was the Presidential yacht.
He would carry his own bags onto Air Force One.
He didn't want to, kind of -- he didn't feel like he had to suck up to the Washington establishment. He was against a lot of pork barrel projects that members of Congress wanted to get through. He was not interested in winning their approval. He wanted to really win the approval of the people, who voted for him in a really genuine way.
BROWN: And yes, he looked at people as, Look, we're all human beings. It doesn't matter where you are in life--
ANDERSEN BROWER: Totally.
BROWN: --You should be respected no matter who you are, and you shouldn't be treated any differently.
I want to go to this moment in 2009. This is during the Obama administration. Of all the then-living presidents together in the Oval Office. And it kind of shows you -- look, we've seen this before. He looks a little out of place here, like he's not totally comfortable.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Yes.
BROWN: Why do you think that is?
ANDERSEN BROWER: It's interesting. I think he did always feel like an outsider.
And I interviewed President Trump, about being a member of The President's Club, and he actually felt a lot of, I think, sympathy for Carter as a fellow outsider.
I mean, Carter betrayed the rules of The President's Club, in some ways, by actually being critical of sitting presidents and their policies. In 2006, he wrote a book about the Middle East, and he wanted greater cooperation with the Palestinian Authority at the time.
And a lot of sitting presidents, I know George H -- George W. Bush was probably not so happy, to see the criticism that he was getting from a former President. And I think that that was really bold and brave and kind of part of what makes Carter so authentic.
BROWN: I want to talk about this case, talking about authenticity, about Mary Prince. And it's an example of sort of the layers to Carter that most Americans don't know about, right? She was wrongly convicted. And she became the Carter family nanny.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Yes, it's one of the most amazing stories.
[21:10:00]
I found out about Mary, when I was working on a book about the housekeepers and staff at the White House who work in the residence. And I found out that the Carters actually hired Mary Prince as a 3- year-old Amy Carter's nanny when they were in the Governor's Mansion in Georgia.
And Mary had been unfairly convicted of murder. She never even met her lawyer beforehand. I got to know her a little bit. And she was Black at a time when segregation was rife in the south. She wasn't fairly represented.
And the Carters believed deeply in racial justice. And again, they practiced what they preached. They hired her. They believed what happened to her was unfair. And Jimmy Carter actually became her parole officer, when he was president, and brought her.
BROWN: Wow.
ANDERSEN BROWER: She helped raise Amy in the White House. She lives in a third floor bedroom in the White House.
BROWN: Wow.
ANDERSEN BROWER: And they just have a really strong bond. She still lives in Plains. She's still incredibly close to the family.
BROWN: My god, I would love to talk to her as well.
ANDERSEN BROWER: I know.
BROWN: Amazing. What a story that is.
Kate Andersen Brower, thank you so much for coming on, and reflecting on President Carter.
ANDERSEN BROWER: Thank you.
BROWN: I want to turn now to CNN's Van Jones, as we continue this conversation.
So Van, in 2008, you and President Carter went to the Arctic together, on a National Geographic exploration, focused on climate change. He was really ahead of his time on that issue. What do you remember about working alongside the former President? VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, it was extraordinary.
The time I was not well-known at all. I was a young activist in the Bay Area. I was trying to get solar panels put up in low-income communities. Of course, he famously put solar panels on the White House. So, we had a lot to talk about in a very strange way.
But I think the thing that was most remarkable to me was his personal touch. He had a way. Look, these trips are very long. If you have ever been to the Arctic, you're on a boat for a long time. People get very long-winded. People are--
BROWN: Never been.
JONES: Yes. Look, these are long trips. And there were major people on that trip. Madeleine Albright, others, Larry Brilliant from Google.org at the time. People get very long-winded. People talk a lot. And people are falling asleep. People are knocking off.
He could somehow teach -- he taught himself to never fall asleep, no matter who was talking or how long.
BROWN: Wow.
JONES: So, here he was the oldest person by far on this ship. And it's 2 o'clock in the morning. People are still droning on. And he's literally paying perfect attention to everyone.
And then, I mentioned to him on the trip that my then-wife's last name was Carter, and her dad's name was Jimmy. And so my then-wife loved Jimmy Carter, always has since she was a kid. It's all I said. It was literally just a moment.
I get back home, and there's a present, there's a box. It's come in the mail. It is addressed to my ex-wife, to my then-wife, perfect spelling of her name, which is not easy to do. And it says, Thank you for always supporting me, Jimmy Carter.
BROWN: Yes.
JONES: I have no idea how he got our address. I have no idea how, with all people on that ship, he remembered that.
But he was -- he treated -- now, and I was a literal nobody. Larry Brilliant picked me out to come because I was a local activist. And he -- but he treated me the same as he treated senators, the same way he treated heads of state, the same way he treated CEOs. And remembered my then-wife's name, somehow got our address, and sent us a book. That's Jimmy Carter.
BROWN: You know what? That reminds me that he actually sent -- sent a letter to me after my parents died. It was from him and Rosalynn.
JONES: Oh, wow. BROWN: And it was a beautifully-written letter, and it was so personal, and so touching, and so special to me. And so, I'm not surprised at all that he did that for you and for your wife. That just says a lot about him as a person.
JONES: Right.
BROWN: And during his administration, Van, he put on a sweater and took to the airwaves, to ask this, of the American people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARTER: All of us must learn to waste less energy. Simply by keeping our thermostats, for instance, at 65 degrees in the daytime and 55 degrees at night, we could save half the current shortage of natural gas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: What parallels do you see in that speech, and the struggles that Democrats still have when it comes to talking about climate change?
JONES: Look, I mean, he was way ahead of his time. Like I said, he put solar panels on the White House. Reagan took them down as soon as he got there. But he's not wrong -- he wasn't wrong, then, and Democrats aren't wrong, now. We do waste a ton of energy. We shouldn't do it. It's bad for the Earth.
It's also, too much pollution is bad for the lungs of our children. We got too many children walking around with asthma inhalers in their pockets that wouldn't be there if we were a little bit smarter about this stuff.
But the great thing about him, he didn't care if it was politically appealing, if he thought it was right. Nobody thought it was a great idea for him to go overseas, and try to fix Israel versus Egypt. But he did that.
[21:15:00]
And so, the last thing I just want to say is that when you're trying to get power, people see a little bit of you. When you have power, they see a lot more of you. But when you lose power, when you lose power, who are you then?
Jimmy Carter showed us who he really was, because the same guy who was trying to get power to help people, when he was younger, who tried to use power, in a good way, when he was older. And then all the way up to his 98th, 99th year, climbing up, trying to build houses for people--
BROWN: It's incredible.
JONES: --this was a true servant of -- every stage of his life, he was a true servant of the people. BROWN: He certainly was.
And before we let you go, I want to ask you about his mark on the civil rights movement. We were just hearing the story from Kate, about Mary Prince, the nanny he hired, who was wrongly convicted. And it was -- that was a cause that was very near and dear to his heart, right?
JONES: Yes.
BROWN: Tell us about--
JONES: Yes.
BROWN: --what you think about the legacy, the mark he left behind on that.
JONES: Well, I think a lot of people don't remember, you know, and people are, frankly, too young to remember. There was something called the Old South and the New South.
In the Old South, politics was segregation, tough on Black folks, really skeptical of civil rights, saw civil rights being imposed from the north, imposed from the Supreme Court.
And then, you had these New South governors, who said, You know what? How about this? Let's all get along. Work together. Make Georgia better. Make a bunch of money.
And he was a New South governor.
Dr. King's father came out, when nobody had ever heard of Jimmy Carter, and said, This is the guy that we can count on. Yes, he's a southerner. Yes, he's a farmer. He believes in these causes.
And so, that was an important moment, as you're coming out of the 60s, you're coming through Watergate, you're coming through Vietnam. Who has the moral clarity to move us forward in a positive direction, and who can bring us together. And Jimmy Carter represented that -- represented that for a number of people in civil rights movement.
BROWN: Van Jones, thank you so much.
JONES: Yes, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. And hopefully, we'll keep talking about him. It's good to talk about somebody who your kids can look up to, and you can look up to at any stage of your life.
BROWN: Yes.
JONES: And know that's how presidents are supposed to be.
BROWN: I'm going to go pull up that letter tonight. That was so special.
JONES: Yes.
BROWN: Van Jones, thank you so much.
JONES: That's good stuff.
BROWN: Up next. The new warning that Elon Musk could put our national security at risk. The retired Army General, who is sounding the alarm, joins us next.
Plus, a bird strike warning followed by a Mayday call. New clues tonight about what caused one of the deadliest plane crashes in years.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A stark new warning from a decorated retired U.S. Army General pins a jarring label on President-elect Trump's close ally, declaring in a New York Times opinion piece that quote, "Elon Musk Is a National Security Risk."
Lieutenant General Russel Honore writes, quote, "Mr. Musk's relationship with China's leaders could prove a problem for America's national security... the question now is whether the incoming Trump Administration will take this risk seriously." End quote.
So let's get straight to THE SOURCE tonight with the author himself. Lieutenant General Honore joins us now.
Thank you for coming on.
So, look, when you speak, people sit up, they listen. Your words hold sway. So when you look at Musk's business ventures--
LT. GEN. RUSSEL HONORE (RET.), U.S. ARMY (RET.), FORMER 33RD COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. FIRST ARMY: Yes.
BROWN: --and see all the financial roads leading back to China, or many of them, I should say, why are you so concerned Musk's relationship with China could risk U.S. national security?
HONORE: Well, thank you for having me on, as we pay tribute to President Carter, a farm boy, like myself, who spent his entire adult life in public service.
And I'm here tonight, as a retired public service, still interested in the security of our country.
And in this case, 80 percent of U.S. rockets that are launched now are launched by Mr. Musk's company, SpaceX. At the same time, Mr. Musk has close ties with the Chinese government. They loaned him $1.4 billion to build a Tesla plant.
And in the Chinese law, they have a rule that anybody doing business in China is required to -- required to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, which is led by the Chinese Communist Party. That has the big concerns that should be of concern to our government. And I'm surprised, the U.S. government that's in office now hasn't done something sooner, to publicly investigate this, or the Congress, or the Senate. And I'm much disappointed that has not happened.
BROWN: So, Musk and Trump's transition team have not responded to CNN's request for a comment. We should note that Musk has a security clearance now, and there's no federal agency that has accused Musk of improperly sharing intelligence.
And Musk himself has implied he paid off a reported $1.4 billion loan that you had mentioned, from several Chinese government-controlled banks for Tesla, back in 2021.
So, why do you think that's still a factor in how the Chinese government officials might leverage those financial ties?
HONORE: Well, I'm not the only one. There's some pretty significant people that's in the government, about to go into President-elect Trump's government, Vivek Ramaswamy and Senator Marco Rubio, has raised this question as early as me, that this is a serious concern, Musk's ties to the Chinese Communist Party, and doing business there, and his relationship.
[21:25:00]
As well as in recent weeks, Steve Bannon, a very loud-spoken and influential person in the Make America Great Again movement has spoken too, his concerns about Musk's relationship to the Chinese.
Musk also has relationship, he's quoted as communicating with President Putin in Russia.
When we have government officials do that, those are -- calls are recorded and synchronized with the Department of State and the National -- he's a private citizen, who also owns a social media network that can influence what senators get elected next. So, he has a lot of power, but not political position.
So, there are people -- I'm not the only one, and there are people of greatest stature than I, that's in the government, that could -- I'm sure, thinking about this.
As well as great news media organizations, like CNN, has reported of Musk's relationship with the President of China, when he was recently elected, in congratulating him. So, he has a very strong relationship with two of them, of our adversaries, our competitors, and he's in--
BROWN: Really quickly, let me just ask you though--
HONORE: --living in Mar-a-Lago (ph) right now.
BROWN: Let me just ask you. That Chinese law, it is true. There is this Chinese law that requires people who do business there to work with intelligence agencies in China, if they ask. So, is your concern more about what China might do than Musk?
HONORE: Well, it's also, we have laws on transfer of technologies to foreign countries. And much of the battery technology, much of it, has been developed here, but being produced in China. There's also rules around passing U.S. technology related to SpaceX. And there's no control now, and there's no -- this goes unchecked. U.S. Air Force and the Department of Defense have expressed concern in investigating this. But this should have been done months ago. And now we're about to go into a government, where Musk has a very influential position next to President-elect Trump. And that should be a concern--
BROWN: He's certainly--
HONORE: --of all of them.
BROWN: Yes, we saw how that played out, and his role and influence with the latest spending bill, for sure.
Lieutenant General Russel Honore, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your opinion with us.
HONORE: God bless America, and bless the Carter family, and bless America. We lost a great one.
BROWN: Certainly, we certainly did.
Happy New Year to you, sir.
Next here, President--
HONORE: Thank you.
BROWN: Next here, President-elect Trump throws his support behind Speaker Johnson to remain in the job, as a right-wing revolt threatens to rip the gavel out of his hands. The Speaker himself weighing his chances, next.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: By the end of the week, House Speaker, Mike Johnson, will know if he gets to keep his job. And we'll see yet again if Donald Trump has the power to keep his fractured party in line.
The President-elect did endorse Johnson's bid to keep the gavel today. Of course, it took him more than 1,300 characters into a Truth Social post to get to it.
Speaker Johnson spoke about that endorsement, just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, FORMER COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To become Speaker again, or to remain Speaker, it's not a matter of biology or chemistry or art. It's math. Do you have the votes?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I think we do, Kellyanne. I'm really humbled and honored to have President Trump's endorsement for Speaker again. He and I worked so well together, so closely together. And we have a lot of big things to do. He recognizes that what we need right now. I think my colleagues recognize this as well.
This could be the most consequential presidency and Congress of the modern era, because we have to fix everything. It has to start on day one. So, we can't waste any time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And yes, that was Kellyanne Conway filling in on Fox, for Sean Hannity.
Given that House Republicans will have only a paper-thin majority, when Congress resumes on Friday, his challenge will be the roughly dozen or so House Republicans, who say they still haven't decided if they'll support him.
My political sources tonight are:
Republican strategist, Erin Perrine.
And CNN Political Commentator, Bakari Sellers.
Great to see you both.
Erin, to start with you. I mean, look, isn't the fact that he's even being asked about it, the math, at this point, a problem?
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, DIRECTOR OF PRESS COMMUNICATIONS, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: I wouldn't think so, because anybody would be asking about the math. These are tight margins. There is not much room for error or possibility here.
And we know, we have seen historically with the Republican conference, especially recently, that they tend to take their time, and they want certain things from their speaker. Right now, this is an inter-party negotiation about where the lines are going to sit within the speaker's power, and whether or not they can get everybody, or at least enough members, to Yes, to make this happen.
The Trump endorsement is big. It shows faith and support behind Speaker Johnson, which is going to be critical, going into this, what's going to be the whip count for the next few days, of calling Members, seeing what their concerns are, and shoring up so that they get to the floor vote, and the Speaker's elected very comfortably.
With that said, the question now really is, how much political capital will, or -- will Donald Trump be willing to spend, or will he have to spend any at all to call members himself, to get his team calling Susie Wiles, and other people, to see where the holdouts are, and how they get Johnson across the finish line. That would be the bigger question, I think, at this point, is the level of political capital.
BROWN: What do you think, Bakari?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: I respect Erin a great deal. And she knows more about Republican politics than I would ever, ever know, or even want to know.
But the fact is that you never had to ask Nancy Pelosi whether or not she had the votes or not. That was a question that that you, Pamela Brown, never had to ask, or anyone else had to ask. Because Nancy Pelosi was a Speaker, who kept her troops in line, had the respect of her body, had the respect of her caucus.
[21:35:00]
She wasn't just the only one. I mean, you had individuals such as Newt Gingrich, who didn't necessarily go through this, as well, from another party.
And so, I would argue that this is a razor-thin majority. The more and more that Donald Trump has kind of picked and pulled for his cabinet from the House majority has made it a lot easier for Democrats to sit back and watch this chaos.
And I would -- I would simply say that this is not about what happens during the vote, but it's about what Mike Johnson has to give up.
Because what we know is that he's going to have to give up things like you can call for vote of the chair, how quickly that can happen, and whether or not he has true authority ushering these things through Congress, or whether or not the Tea Party or Ralph Norman or anyone else can hold these things up.
And so, at the end of the day, this isn't about this vote in particular. But this is about something the American people know, and they're kind of hoping things change. But they know that the Republican Party can't lead, particularly in Congress. This is another example of that.
BROWN: So, an extension of what you said, Bakari, you have Republicans like Indiana congresswoman, Victoria Spartz, posting after Trump's endorsement today, quote, "We still need to get assurances that" Speaker Johnson "won't sell us out."
What do you think about that Erin? Is making a deal with the hardliners in the party, what cost Kevin McCarthy the post.
PERRINE: This is the tricky part of navigating Republicans.
To Bakari's point, Democrats are much easier to get in line. I don't know what kind of thumbscrews Nancy Pelosi had behind-the-scenes. But Democrats rarely fight with each other the way that Republicans do. I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing for Democrats, because dissent is good. It can help strengthen a party. But besides that point, these are conversations Republicans have had since before McCarthy. If you go back to Paul Ryan, how much power does the speaker have? And that certainly changed coming into the Kevin McCarthy era. And so, you've seen where they've had to cede more power in order to become speaker.
That's the question now is, where is the threshold going to be, to call for a motion to vacate the chair for the speaker? If it's one member and one member only, good lord, that's a lot of power, and can certainly cause chaos. And I think this is what House Republicans would be helpful to remember, is how much chaos there was, in the early parts of trying to get that McCarthy speaker vote, and get through that final stretch there.
These are the early days, those first 100 days, this is about as honeymoon as you're going to get for Donald Trump, if you can even call it a honeymoon, sometimes, with the way that things get covered going into his administration.
So, they need to be unified, to be able to get things done, like immigration reform, which is so huge, like economic reform, which the American people were begging for, coming out of this election, like tax reform, which we know will be up this year.
Republicans, yes, they want assurances, about how spending is done and about government oversight. But let's not lose the bigger focus here, which is delivering for the American people, across the board. Don't let perfection get in the way of getting the job done.
BROWN: So Bakari, you had mentioned, Look, Democrats are just kind of sitting back watching this happen.
But do Democrats risk enjoying this too much? If this does get close to a constitutional crisis, will they have to step in? We should remind our viewers, looming over all of this is the election certification, on January 6th. And if there's no Speaker, what's going to happen?
SELLERS: There's no constitutional crisis. I mean, I don't have a hard time saying, like some people did four years ago, or even people come on air today, and say that Donald Trump will be the 47th President of the United States. I mean, that -- he won the race. I mean, like, there's no, like, weird thing about that. I mean, there's no constitutional crisis on the horizon.
The Republicans got to get their stuff together. And I use stuff, because I haven't had enough Casamigos right now. But they got to get their stuff done, and whether or not -- whether or not that happens or not, is on them.
Like, the chaos that's going to rain, not just on -- and I think everybody understands, Mike Johnson probably will be the next speaker, but he's going to have an extremely short leash.
I mean, let's not forget about the mutual self-destruction, which I like to call Matt Gaetz and Kevin McCarthy. Neither one of them serve anymore. Kevin McCarthy is able to have a glass of red wine, and not necessarily being disgraced.
Matt Gaetz went out in nuclear fashion. But he was able to take out the Speaker of the House, because of the rules that were applied and the leash that was put on Kevin McCarthy.
What happens with Mike Johnson? I mean, does that same thing occur? And so, those are questions they have to answer. [21:40:00]
Look, Democrats have a whole another set of problems to worry about. They have to get their act together. They have to worry about 2025. We have Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer and all these other folks focusing on 2028, which is a bane to my existence. We have races to win in 2025, in New Jersey, in Virginia, like places that matter. We have to rebuild a party. So, I'm not necessarily worried about the inside-the-beltway politics.
And Democrats, our party is led by Hakeem Jeffries. I trust him. In Washington, D.C., I trust Hakeem more than I trust Mike.
But at the end of the day, people, like the Tea Party, are going to pull these chains, in the least until January 6th, and determine whether or not Mike Johnson has a future.
BROWN: All right. Erin. Bakari. Go back to enjoying your Casamigos. Thank you both. And Happy New Year to you both.
PERRINE: Happy New Year.
SELLERS: Thank you.
BROWN: Up next. The deepening mystery tonight into one of the deadliest commercial air disasters in years. What happened in that cockpit during the flight's four final terrifying minutes.
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[21:45:00]
BROWN: Breaking tonight. A South Korean court has approved an arrest warrant for that country's impeached president, Yoon.
It comes just weeks after he briefly declared martial law, and sent the crucial American ally into a near constitutional crisis. He accused the main opposition party of paralyzing government and sympathizing with North Korea.
Yoon is now facing a criminal investigation into abuse of authority and orchestrating a rebellion. And now, there is an arrest warrant out for him. Wow.
Also in South Korea, investigators are digging for clues, as to what caused a commercial passenger jet to crash-land, Sunday, at an airport, killing 179 people on board. There were only two survivors, crew members, in the tail section. Officials say the pilot declared Mayday three times, and reported a bird strike, before making an emergency landing.
And video appears to show the airplane's landing gear not fully deploying before hitting the tarmac. This is all complexing, aviation analysts. The Boeing 737-800 then was seen skidding on the runway, at a very high speed, and then slamming into an embankment and bursting into flames. And it's still a mystery as to why this happened, and what transpired in the cockpit, between the pilot's emergency message and the crash. A lot went wrong here.
So, joining us now to help us maybe better-understand what happened is Greg Feith, the former Senior Investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board.
And Miles O'Brien, CNN Aviation Analyst.
It seems like aviation analysts are looking at this, and scratching their heads, because, on one hand, there was a possible bird strike. But how does that explain the other issues? Miles, first to you.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST, SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWSHOUR: Yes, Pamela, it has taken a little while for everybody to sort of sort this one through.
But I think if you come to the conclusion that first of all, the bird strike did not make it impossible for the crew to deploy the landing gear. That shouldn't have happened. There are many layers of redundancy to get the landing gear down.
And then, you consider the possibility that if there was a bird strike, at least one engine had failed. Is it possible the second engine was not providing enough power? Now, if that were the case, then it would be advantageous for a crew, to consider flying the aircraft without landing gear deployed, or the flaps, because that would actually reduce the amount of distance it could fly as a glider.
So, if there were a scenario, where they lost complete power, this would be what the pilot would want to do, is to try to approach the runway. The term we call is clean, meaning no flaps, no landing gear, to get as much distance as possible to the runway.
BROWN: So Greg, take us through the steps here. What are investigators likely focusing on right now?
GREG FEITH, FORMER SENIOR INVESTIGATOR, NTSB, AVIATION SECURITY CONSULTANT: You have to break this investigation down into multiple pieces. As Miles said, of course, the big question is, what started this whole action?
We know the aircraft was on approach to runway one. We know that the crew was advised of birds. Shortly thereafter, the crew advised that they had struck birds, and declared a Mayday. Declaring a Mayday after striking birds, suggest that there was something catastrophic, or at least very detrimental, that occurred. Just hitting birds, pilots will exclaim that, or at least tell ATC, Yes, we just hit birds or whatever, kind of like "Miracle on the Hudson." But there was a sense of urgency here, and that's the big part is what necessitated this crew to believe that they needed to get the aircraft back on the ground by doing a go -- what's called a go- around. So they abort the landing to runway one, did a teardrop, and came back to try and land on 19.
Was there some sort of issue with the aircraft based on that bird strike? There was a passenger, who apparently texted a message saying, We just hit birds, they're stuck in the wing. And that kind of thing. So, is there damage?
Two, did a bird come through the window? Because there are large migratory birds in that area. So, did you incapacitate a flight crew member? So now you have one pilot, trying to do a lot of things and get the airplane on the ground.
Three, did they get caught up in the moment, trying to get the airplane on the ground, and did not complete the checklist?
Because, again, as Miles knows, on the approach, that airplane would have been configured for not only the landing gear down, the flaps down. But then on the go-around, you would, of course, retract the landing gear. But there would have been no reason to retract the flaps and the slats, which are good slow-speed devices. And that aircraft landed at a very high rate of speed.
BROWN: And it's just so sad to think what the outcome could have been. Would it have been different, and survivable, had it not crashed into that concrete embankment at the end of the runway?
[21:50:00]
I want to get your reaction to this crazy new video, from Los Angeles Airport, LAX, of a Delta plane nearly colliding with a jet carrying the Gonzaga men's basketball team. You can hear, Stop, Stop, Stop.
This near collision, and the deadly crash of that Azerbaijan Airlines plane last week which may have been accidentally brought down by Russia, are just some of the more recent examples of aviation disasters and close calls.
Can you just put into perspective how many commercial planes take off and land every single day safely, Miles?
O'BRIEN: I don't know the number, globally. I think it's on the order of 4,500 that are in the air in the United States. But Greg might check me on that number. But I will say this--
FEITH: Thousands.
O'BRIEN: That -- is that -- is that right? Or am I too low? I don't know.
FEITH: Yes. Well, when you think about a 24-hour period, we're running 30,000-plus operations just here in the United States, in the general area. Around the world, it's probably almost double that, combined.
BROWN: So but--
O'BRIEN: So lots of--
BROWN: So--
O'BRIEN: It's a very intricate ballet pablum (ph), and the fact that these near misses occur probably shouldn't come as much of a surprise to us, because the system is, in many cases, way at capacity-- (inaudible) it's a great example of, you know, they're not pouring any more concrete out there for runways.
FEITH: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And the demand for that precious concrete continues to rise.
BROWN: Yes. So the question is, what can you do about that? But the bottom line is, despite these examples, it's overwhelmingly safe to fly. I think that perspective in that context is really important.
Greg Feith. Miles O'Brien. Thank you so much.
FEITH: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: You're welcome.
BROWN: Up next. He is three weeks from taking back power, but Donald Trump just got hit with a major legal setback, and he can't pardon his way out of it.
[21:55:00]
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BROWN: Well tonight, a federal appeals court has upheld the verdict that Donald Trump is liable for sexually abusing writer, E. Jean Carroll, decades ago. This leaves the multi-million dollar judgment against him intact.
The saga between the two is far from over, though. Trump is also appealing a separate verdict involving Carroll, which found he defamed her by denying that sexual abuse. The President-elect's spokesman, Steven Cheung, says more appeals are on the way.
CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig, is here to help us break it all down.
So Elie, is there any chance the Supreme Court takes this case?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: No, Pam. No chance at all. And here's why.
First of all, the Supreme Court only takes a very small percentage of all cases brought to it, usually under 5 percent. And the mere fact that a case has the name, Donald Trump, attached, does not necessarily make it Supreme Court-worthy. What they're looking for is a major constitutional issue, or some sort of issue where the courts are split around the country.
But this is just really a garden variety civil case. The plaintiff, E. Jean Carroll, sued the defendant, Donald Trump. The jury found for the plaintiff. Donald Trump appealed. The appeals court said no. And that's that. This case, this part of the case, is over. BROWN: So, you're very defensive on that, absolutely not.
And after we saw the court deny Trump's appeal today, do you think he has any chance of winning the appeal against the related defamation suit?
HONIG: Yes, so the case that -- where the appeal was rejected today is actually the smaller of the two E. Jean Carroll cases. That's the one where Trump was found liable for $5 million.
There's a separate case where he was found liable for over 80 -- around $83 million. I don't think the appeals court's going to throw that verdict out, and completely get rid of the case. But it wouldn't shock me at all if the Court of Appeals does reduce that $83 million amount.
It's kind of hard to justify why the first case, which involved actual sexual assault and defamation would be worth $5 million, and the second case which is only defamation would be worth 16 times that, $83 million. So, wouldn't shock me to see that number come down on appeal.
BROWN: All right, so Inauguration Day is in three weeks. Once Trump is back in the Oval Office, will the appeals process look different? I mean, this is a case he can't make go away with a pardon.
HONIG: Yes, so really important to understand, when a person becomes president, he has very broad criminal protections. DOJ has long had a policy that they will not prosecute the sitting president. You also have immunity, very broadly, according to the Supreme Court. But most of that does not apply civilly.
And both of these lawsuits, involving E. Jean Carroll, the New York State Attorney General's civil lawsuit, all of those can carry on unchanged, untouched, even after Donald Trump takes the oath of office on January 20th. So, these civil cases, unlike the criminal cases, are mostly going to carry on.
BROWN: All right. Also tonight, I want to ask you about something else. Special Counsel Jack Smith hands off what is left of the classified documents case to prosecutors in Florida. What is next in that case?
HONIG: Yes, so let's remember, the classified documents case actually had three defendants. One of them is Donald Trump. Jack Smith has now dismissed that case, because Donald Trump is about to become the sitting president. And as I just said, DOJ has long had a policy, We're not going to prosecute the sitting president. But there's two other guys, Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira, both of whom were Mar-a-Lago employees, co-conspirators. Neither of them is going to become president. So those cases can carry on. So, what Jack Smith has done here is transfer those cases over to normal federal prosecutors, the U.S. Attorney's Office, not Special Counsel.
So theoretically, Pam, those criminal prosecutions can carry on. But it would not shock me, whatsoever, if Donald Trump very quickly pardons both them, as soon as he takes office. [22:00:00]
BROWN: All right. Elie Honig with the legal lightning round tonight. Thank you so much. It's so great to see you, as always.
HONIG: Thanks, Pam. You too.
BROWN: And thanks for joining us.
"NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next. See you back here on Thursday.
