Return to Transcripts main page
The Source with Kaitlan Collins
FBI: New Orleans Attacker 100 Percent "Inspired By ISIS"; Johnson Predicts Just One GOP Vote Against Him For Speaker; Former Rep. Liz Cheney And Rep. Bennie Thompson Awarded Presidential Citizens Medal By Biden. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 02, 2025 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMI SENSKY, INJURED IN BOURBON STREET ATTACK: --and no one called it a terror attack. And I kept asking people, like nurses, doctors that were with me, that night. And no one said it was a terror attack. And today, I found out that it was a terror attack.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Does it make you angry?
SENSKY: Me, personally, I'm going to have a hard time, probably coming back to Bourbon Street for a while. But, I mean, I might -- but I'm not -- it is -- my whole thing was, you should feel safe there.
And hopefully -- there was definitely things that were wrong. They didn't put up the stupid -- the thing at the end of the road that I had to drive over my wheelchair, especially to stop the cars, wasn't up. So that was definitely a problem. Like that thing that was supposed to be up, was down. I drove over it. I didn't get pushed over it. But it was only this tall, like five inches tall.
COOPER: Right.
SENSKY: So like--
COOPER: Yes, they said it needed to be repaired or something.
SENSKY: Yes, well, they should have repaired it before New Year's Eve.
COOPER: Is there anything else you want people to know? I don't want to take up too much of your time.
SENSKY: I don't -- I'm just happy to be alive, you know? I don't want people to be afraid to go out and do things, something that I really don't (ph). I mean, this could happen any time anywhere. But what are you going to do? Stop living your life?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: By the way, Jeremi Sensky's wheelchair was destroyed in the attack. It's expensive. It's highly specialized model. It's called a Permobil F3, a Permobil F3. His family is desperate to try to get a replacement within the next day or two, so he can get out of the hospital. He is paralyzed. If anyone can help, including a Permobil, please get in touch with the University Medical Center.
For us, the news continues. THE SOURCE starts right now.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS: Straight from THE SOURCE tonight.
Heightened security as Bourbon Street reopens. We are learning more about the driver who killed or maimed dozens in New Orleans. Authorities say the U.S. Army veteran was 100 percent inspired by ISIS, and posted videos in the hours before the attack.
And also, some new details on the Tesla cyberattack -- Cybertruck explosion, I should say, outside the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. No definitive connection to New Orleans. But some eerie coincidences. Another driver, who rented his car from the same app, and was an active-duty military member who had been stationed at similar places, as the New Orleans attacker.
And a cliffhanger, right here in Washington. Speaker Johnson has just hours to lock down the votes to keep his job with the smallest House majority in 100 years.
I'm Pamela Brown, in for Kaitlan Collins. And this is THE SOURCE.
Tonight, the FBI just released new photos of the man that they say plowed through a crowd in New Orleans. And we're told that this Army veteran from Texas acted alone.
The FBI wants to hear from anyone who saw him. That's why they are releasing these pictures. Or this blue cooler, right here on the screen. Inside was a bomb that fortunately didn't go off.
Police say the man in the pictures is the one behind the wheel, in new surveillance video, showing just how quickly the party turned deadly, as a pickup truck plowed through the busy French Quarter, in the early hours of this New Year.
And they're also examining this CNN exclusive video, doorbell footage from the Airbnb, where the attacker was staying. And you can see him, just outside the house, just hours before the attack.
Time is critical. Investigators are working step by step, trying to bring to light, an explanation, for what seems unexplainable. How a man, who his brother describes as kind and soft-spoken could be the same one the FBI now describes like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER RAIA, DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI COUNTERTERRORISM DIVISION: What I can tell you, right now, is that he was 100 percent inspired by ISIS. And so, we're digging -- we're digging through more of the social media, more interviews, working with some of our other partners, to ascertain just how -- to ascertain a little bit more about that connection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And at this hour, Bourbon Street has reopened. College Football's Sugar Bowl, which was delayed by a day, was played under tight security. And that added security now extends to the corner of Bourbon and Bienville.
But the scene, you see tonight, presents a marked contrast from the early hours of this New Year. The site of so many legendary celebrations, the latest American landmark to bear witness to terrorism. There, 14 lives were cut short. Each leaves behind a family in unimaginable pain, right now, as we speak.
Families like that of Drew Dauphin, who tell us that he lit up every room he entered, his smile was infectious. They tell us, Our family is numb and in shock through this horrific and senseless tragedy.
Anderson Cooper is in the French Quarter.
Anderson, I know you've been talking to people. You've been there many times. Tonight is so different. How different of a scene is it on Bourbon Street from the many nights before?
[21:05:00]
COOPER: It's interesting. We were here, this afternoon, when Bourbon Street reopened. And city officials came. They brought in faith leaders, who wanted to come to say prayers and -- on this street, before it was officially opened to the public, a second line with musicians came in and sang, saying, We ain't scared in New Orleans. They wanted to let people know that this city is up and running.
And they got this street back up and running today. And I got to tell you, it is a little more somber, perhaps. There's fewer crowds than you might normally see. But there are already thousands of people on this street, walking up and down. There are people out having drinks. The bars are open. The music is playing. And I think it's certainly a more somber day, and there's shock, and there's such sadness in the city.
But there's, as you said, the Sugar Bowl was played today. And there's a lot of people here who flew in to have a good time, and that's what they're doing. And there's a lot of people who live here, who want to see this, because they want to see this city, which is so resilient, and it's bounced back from so many things, they want to see it roll on.
BROWN: They're just not going to be deterred by fear from this terrorist attack.
And I know you spoke with Zion Parsons. I was listening to that interview. He was there last night. He saw his friend die, you know? And he was telling you how he could barely even eat anything, that pit-in-your-stomach feeling, when you're just in so much despair and grief. But his face lit up, when he talked about his friend who died. Tell us about that.
COOPER: Yes, he's 17-years-old. And he was here that night. His mom didn't even know he had come here. But he was here. He says he narrowly missed being hit by the vehicle.
Here's some of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What was Nikyra like?
ZION PARSONS, FRIEND OF NIKYRA CHEYENNE DEDEAUX: Nikyra was just that most amazing person in your life.
COOPER: I love how your face lights up when you think of her.
PARSONS: Everybody, everybody loved her. She was just so bubbly, so eccentric, just a light to be around. And no matter -- if you were sad--
COOPER: Good.
PARSONS: -- she would cheer you up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Wow.
COOPER: He -- yes.
BROWN: It's, the resilience, really, to be able to come back, and even just talk to you, after going through something so traumatic. And we just, we remember those victims tonight, those who did lose their lives, as their families are suffering and grieving.
Anderson Cooper, thank you so much.
Well, CNN has just obtained exclusive new video of the suspect, shortly before the attack in New Orleans, and it was taken just after midnight. And in it, you can see the man putting what appears to be a white pole with a black top into the bed of the truck. Authorities have said an ISIS flag was found in the truck.
And in addition, that the suspect can be seen working on the hitch of the truck, right here. When he is about to leave, he pulls away, and then backs up, and then pulls away again.
My law enforcement sources tonight are:
The former D.C. Chief of Homeland Security and Intelligence, Donell Harvin.
And the former FBI Assistant Director for the Criminal Investigative Division, Chris Swecker. Great to see you both, under these just horrible circumstances.
Donell, first to you. I just want to know what your takeaway is, as this information, and this video comes in.
DONELL HARVIN, FORMER D.C. CHIEF OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE, HOMELAND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this is an individual who is typical, dived in town a few days before, started doing, what we call, pre-operational surveillance, surveilling the locations, possibly, getting a plan together.
And the fact that he was inspired by ISIS comes to no surprise to people like me. ISIS has been inspiring individuals, for the last decade to do this, just this type of attack. Over the last 10 years, we've had, nearly 20 attacks have taken the lives of almost 200 people and injured hundreds more. And so, this is part of the ISIS playbook, to inspire people online, to get them to do these very low-tech attacks. And it keeps on happening.
BROWN: Chris, we know the FBI has the suspect's three phones and two laptops. That's probably a big reason why we know so much about -- more about him, at this hour, than the person in Las Vegas.
But of course, those could take time to get into all of them, right? They're already starting to glean some information. What more are they likely trying to learn about the suspect himself? And what do you want to know, right now?
[21:10:00]
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Right. Those electronic devices are rich sources of information on the devices themselves. And of course, what you can get from the cloud, the cloud storage, mobile phone traffic, historical mobile phone calls, and that sort of thing. All very rich information.
They just want to know why this -- why he did this. I mean, they seem to have ruled out, they being the FBI, seemed to have ruled out co- conspirators, even though, early on they were saying there were.
But it's important to understand if he was directed versus inspired. If he was directed, there are -- there are probably others that we need to be concerned about. If he was inspired, I mean, there's always going to be that lone wolf, and what will put him in that category, if this was a so-called inspired act.
But I think there's still quite a bit we need to learn about him. We're hearing from friends and family that he had some spiral -- you know, his life was spiraling downward. And we see that quite a bit in this type of scenario.
BROWN: We do. And I just ask that we put up those photos again, that the FBI, I believe, released. And it's really striking when you see these pictures of him just dressed in normal clothes, kind of dressed nicely, and to think that then he is going to go launch this attack. And as -- there we go, here they are on the -- you know, you could walk past him on the street, and not think anything of it. And yet, the FBI has come out and also said that he joined ISIS before the summer.
And Donell, you have noted that the Justice Department has charged at least three other alleged ISIS sympathizers since last fall.
Given that authorities say this was an American veteran who was carrying an ISIS flag, what do you think we should all know about how ISIS recruits, radicalizes and inspires attackers, in this moment?
HARVIN: Well, just in case the American public thought that ISIS was gone, this is a stark awakening that they are not gone. They may be degradated as an organization, but a lot of their content is still out there. They're still publishing regular online radicalization materials, like their Inspire magazine and videos.
And they really prey on individuals that are on the spectrum of mobilization to violence, people who are downtrodden, people who are upset at the world. I don't think it's going to get any better. There's a lot of conflicts going on. DHS and the FBI director, earlier this year, talked about the conflict in the Middle East inspiring individuals to radicalization.
And so, there's a lot of cause out there. What we normally say is that an individual mobilizes the violence, because they have some type of grievance. They're mad at somebody or something. And so there's a lot of things to be mad about. And unfortunately, these individuals aren't getting the help that they need to deradicalize.
BROWN: Right, and that brings me to my next question, Chris, because how do you decipher this was just someone who was mentally ill, versus this is someone acting on behalf of ISIS, influenced by ISIS.
You heard the FBI, again, say earlier today, that he was 100 percent inspired by ISIS.
But he was also going through this horrible time in his life. And he talked about wanting to kill his family, and bringing them together as though it was a celebration. But then decided on a different plan because of the headlines it would generate.
SWECKER: Yes, it's hard to get your rational mind around that type of mindset. Something snaps in them. In this case, you can see that slow spiral that his life was falling apart, basically. And we've seen that Hasan, the military officer that did this at Fort Hood, or had the mass shooting at Fort Hood, 20 years ago, same -- sort of same trajectory in his life.
And somewhere, they turn into this, this true believer, and that's willing and seems to be anxious to get out and kill people, and they just to make their own point, I guess, to be noticed, sometimes, just to be noticed and counted.
And in this case, I think we're going to learn more about his life, but you can see, he follows that spiraling, downhill. It's just the true-believer syndrome. You can read about it in a lot of different publications.
BROWN: And that's why security officials, I mean, they work around the clock, to try to prevent people, like him, from carrying out these attacks.
And now, we're learning about the Department of Homeland Security issuing this bulletin, just last month, about the threat of lone offenders around the holidays, and the potential use of vehicles. That was after the attack, of course, at a Christmas market in Germany.
And then, I just spoke to someone with the Interfor International security firm, who did a 2019 report for the city, warning that Bourbon Street was vulnerable towards a terrorist attack by vehicle.
You have to ask, how big of a security failure was this, Donell?
[21:15:00]
HARVIN: Well, I've been in the position of protecting cities against incidents like this. So, I try to give some deference to my former colleagues, out there, that are -- that are working every day, very hard, to protect cities at the state and local level.
With that said, I think there's a lot of missed opportunities. Certainly, as you mentioned, not only DHS put this bulletin out once, but twice during December.
But this is an annual bulletin. It's a joint bulletin between DHS and the FBI. We call it a JIB, a Joint Intelligence Bulletin, that goes out to folks like I was, and say, Hey, it's the holiday season. We're monitoring different types of streams of intelligence. Keep an eye out for this, and make sure that if you have any celebrations, tree- lightings, things like that, that they're protected.
Now, if you ignored those two bulletins that came out in December, you can't ignore what happened two weeks ago in Germany. And as I mentioned in the opening, the vehicle as a weapon is a known ISIS tactic, technique and procedure. They've promulgated this. They've used it successfully. Hundreds of people have died.
And I think there's a failure, to be quite honest with you. We don't have all the facts. But in my -- in my gut, I feel that there was multiple failures that could have led to at least mitigating the crash that occurred yesterday.
BROWN: Now moving forward, we just have to learn from those, right?
I also want to note this situation, out in Las Vegas, where the bomb was set off in a Tesla Cybertruck, just outside of a Las Vegas Trump Hotel, Chris. We know law enforcement and the President have said there's no known connection between the attack in New Orleans, and the explosion in Las Vegas.
But even if they weren't working together, what is the takeaway for law enforcement on the current threat risk?
SWECKER: Yes, there are a lot of disturbing intersections there.
But to your point about the threat risk. I mean, I think the risk level has been extremely high for quite a while now. I mean, we've had four years of open borders. Regardless of your politics, you have to factor in that there may be terrorist cells in the United States, right now, that came across that border. So, you have that.
You have the constant indoctrination and propaganda on the internet. Al-Qaeda used to have their publication called Inspire, which was designed to inspire these types of attacks.
And you see, ISIS being degraded. I think that makes them more dangerous, even more dangerous than they are when they had their enclave. So now, they're -- they're in sort of panic mode. They want to -- they would still want to exist as an organization, then they can extend themselves, virtually, through people who they can radicalize on the internet or through social media.
So, this is all part of, I think, a very heightened security threat. And of course, the copycat syndrome, the people are just--
BROWN: Yes.
SWECKER: --you know, you see it happen, and it plants an idea in your head.
BROWN: That's always the worry after something like this. And you had these two events, these horrible tragedies, and on the same day.
Donell Harvin. Chris Swecker. Thank you for your insight.
More on this breaking story, just ahead, including the new timeline from investigators, piecing together the suspect's final movements in the hours leading up to the New Orleans attack.
Plus, President-elect Trump tries to blame illegal immigration, even though the attacker was a U.S. citizen from Texas. Maggie Haberman is here.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, tonight, new details inside the suspect's final hours leading up to the deadly New Year's Eve attack, on Bourbon Street.
On December 30th, Shamsud-Din Jabbar rented that Ford-150 used in the attack, from a private rental app in Houston. And authorities say the following evening, he drove to New Orleans. Then between 01:00 a.m. and 02:00 a.m., local time, just after the New Year, law enforcement officials say that Jabbar is seen on surveillance video, planting two explosive devices in the Bourbon Street area.
He posted the first of five Facebook videos at 01:29 a.m., where he walked through what he said were canceled plans to kill his own family during a holiday celebration, and he also discussed his decision to join ISIS, and provided a last will and testament.
At 03:15 a.m., Jabbar is seen driving down Canal Street, turning sharply around a police vehicle and onto a sidewalk, gunning it, and striking dozens of pedestrians, before hopping out of the truck and opening fire on police officers who then shot and killed him.
Federal investigators say the suspect was, quote, 100 percent inspired by ISIS, as we've been talking about. But three phones and two laptops recovered at the scene could bring some more insight into potential foreign or domestic influence.
My source tonight is former National Security Adviser, during President-elect Trump's first term -- first term.
Ambassador John Bolton, nice to see you.
Bottom line, how high is the threat level now, after this New Orleans attack?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Well, I think it should be very high. It indicates that ISIS and probably other terrorists recruiting, even if it's just online, continues to pay off for them.
I think it's a mistake, and it has been for some time, to think that the global terrorist threat against us is declining. I do think people come across our borders. Some are recruited here. You have to be vigilant in both cases.
But the idea that radical Islamicism has gone away as a problem for the United States, or our friends and allies, ask Israel, is really a huge mistake. And out of this tragedy may come more awareness that the problem remains, here in the U.S. and abroad.
BROWN: And again, and we know what this -- the suspect in New Orleans, he was a U.S.-born citizen, right? Donald Trump repeatedly said ISIS was done, during his term, right? I mean, we remember him saying that.
But given the suspect, he praised ISIS. He had an ISIS flag, during this attack. The FBI said that he was inspired by ISIS. I mean, does this man becoming radicalized, even without explicit direction, point to a resurgence of ISIS, in your view?
BOLTON: Well, I think it shows that their appeal is still high. And ISIS has been doing this for a long time, publishing materials on the internet and elsewhere, to try and inspire these lone-wolf terrorists.
[21:25:00]
They're really not lone wolf. This is a central plan by ISIS to do this. They once published an article in their magazine called, How to make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom. So that's a pretty good idea, if they think they can get somebody to do that. But let's also be clear, ISIS-K won after cropping (ph) has re- established itself in Afghanistan last -- within the past 12 months, they have conducted two major international terrorist attacks, one in Iran in January, almost exactly a year ago from today, and one at the Crocus mall outside Moscow, two high-security environments. Maybe they haven't directed an attack in the United States yet. But it's certainly within their capability.
And as we speak, in Syria, the HTS terrorist group, which many say is just a name change from the Al-Nusra Front, another ISIS spin-off, is in control of Damascus, trying to get control of the whole country, risking the establishment of another terror state, another Afghanistan, this time on the Mediterranean.
So, threat is not only continuing to be present. I think it's growing.
BROWN: And Republicans have been using this threat, and using the attack in New Orleans, to pressure senators to confirm Trump's Cabinet picks.
Senator John Barrasso posted today, quote, "The U.S. Senate must confirm President Trump's national security team as soon as possible. Lives depend on it."
What do you make of that argument?
BOLTON: Well, I think if somebody is competent, that's a good reason to move ahead with confirmation. But it certainly doesn't make any sense to say, We need to approve somebody who is either not competent, or not qualified for other reasons, like lack of judgment or questionable background, to put them in these sensitive positions.
I think the Senate is coming back in, the confirmation hearings are going to start, the FBI background investigations are going to begin to finish up. Let's see what they say. And then, if the person is qualified and morally fit for the job, then, by all means, confirm them swiftly. And if they're not, don't confirm them at all.
BROWN: All right. Morally fit.
Ambassador John Bolton, thank you.
Up next. Inside Mike Johnson's scramble to keep his job, as House Speaker, with just hours to go, he has yet to lock down the GOP votes needed. We'll discuss.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In a matter of hours, we'll know if even the most routine business in Washington, or rather what used to be routine, will be a fight to kick off the new Republican-controlled Congress. We are learning that the President-elect has agreed to pick up the phone to help Mike Johnson. The current Speaker, spent the day trying to convince hold-outs in his own party that he should keep his gavel. All while projecting calm for television cameras.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I think it's going to be OK, Larry. We'll have maybe one no-vote, I think. I think we get it done on the first round. Certainly hopeful for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: My congressional source is New York Republican congressman, Nick LaLota.
Congressman, thank you for coming in.
I'm going to get to the speaker's vote in just a minute.
But I want to note that there was an intelligence briefing on the Hill about the attack in New Orleans. And one of the big questions has been, this Jabbar, the attacker in New Orleans, had been posting about being inspired by ISIS to carry out this attack, before it happened.
Was he on the FBI's radar?
REP. NICK LALOTA (R-NY): Yes, so we had a bicameral, bipartisan call with the FBI today, my colleagues, mostly from the Homeland Security Committee. And despite the individual, five times, posting on the social media, his affiliation and his pledge of allegiance to ISIS, that he was not on the FBI or any federal law enforcement radar. We got that as a result of the call.
BROWN: Anything else come from that call, we should know about?
LALOTA: That we are sending more agents to that area to ensure that the New Orleans area is safe and secure. They have the federal resources needed, to conduct a proper and thorough investigation, to understand how this happened, and to hopefully prevent something similar from happening again.
BROWN: You heard Speaker Johnson there, in that Fox interview. Turning to that. He thinks it's going to be one round, and he's very optimistic. At this point, tomorrow, will there be a Speaker of the House, and will it be Mike Johnson?
LALOTA: Yes, a lot of drama, two years ago.
BROWN: Yes.
LALOTA: There was a 15-round knockout drag-out fight. This may be more like a pillow fight, tomorrow. I think that while despite a couple of my colleagues dissenting, a little bit over the last couple of weeks, I think we'll come together.
Republicans are unified on the border, on putting our economy back on the right track, and reasserting America's strength internationally. I think that's what unites us. And we'll move forward with the vote, tomorrow, quickly.
BROWN: So you think it will be a pillow fight.
This is what one of your fellow New York Republicans told my colleague, John Berman, today. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): I don't know if he has the votes right now. But I do believe that he will have the votes. And I'm not sure that it will be on the first round.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So clearly not as confident as you are right now.
Johnson has been meeting with about a half a dozen hold-outs, right? He can only lose one Republican. Thomas Massie has already said, one more Republican, he said he's not supporting him. I mean, is that a lot of hold-outs at this point?
LALOTA: Yes, we have a tight -- tight majority. America blessed the Republicans with a very tight a majority in the House, majority in the Senate and the White House.
But we know the job that we need to get done tomorrow. We need to elect Speaker Johnson the first, and if it takes maybe a second ballot, so be it. But we need to get to the work of the nation, to put our great country back on the right track. It's the agenda that we campaigned on. It's what we were elected on. And hopefully, this is just a speed bump, tomorrow.
BROWN: How much sway does Trump still have, trying to get? We know he's been making calls to some of the hold-outs. How much sway do you think he still has?
LALOTA: Yes, I think he has tremendous sway in the party. It was his agenda upon which many of us campaigned, to ensure that Americans knew that if we were blessed with these majorities, that we would conduct ourselves and increase American security, give more American prosperity, reassert our strength in the world stage.
[21:35:00]
These are the things that unite us. And he is the standard-bearer for our party on that. And I think that he has swayed a lot of people in this speaker vote, to vote for Johnson as well.
BROWN: Are you concerned, though, about handshake deals -- handshake deals being made, given what we saw with Kevin McCarthy before? And should Johnson be willing to give anything to some of these hold-outs to get the gavel?
LALOTA: Yes, all indications are no, that Johnson is not willing to make those deals. I think he saw how that turned out, two years ago, that when he made deals, that ultimately they backfired on him, nine months later. And I don't think that that is a proper recipe to ensure success in this Congress.
BROWN: So, you believe there are no handshake deals happening right now?
LALOTA: I've been told explicitly there are none.
BROWN: From Johnson's office, and Johnson himself?
LALOTA: Yes. Yes he's been quite clear with that. We'll govern as a majority. We may not agree on everything, every time. But there ought not to be side deals incorporating in this speaker leadership fight.
BROWN: What happens, though, if Monday does get here? You have to look at this. When you have to certify Donald Trump's victory, right, January 6th, and you don't have a speaker?
LALOTA: Yes.
BROWN: I mean, are you guys talking through that scenario here?
LALOTA: Well I doubt that's going to happen.
BROWN: You can doubt it.
LALOTA: There's -- maybe you'll invite me back, and we can shout about it.
BROWN: But you -- but you always have to be prepared.
LALOTA: Sure.
BROWN: Because this is a different era.
LALOTA: Yes, of course, anything could happen. But it feels much different now this year than it did two years ago. I think that we have a--
BROWN: In what way exactly?
LALOTA: There's an agenda for us to unite upon. There are folks in the Senate who have to confirm cabinet secretaries in either high-level positions. We understand that America is hurting, and that there ought not to be any shenanigans. We ought to put the country back on track. And the first start is electing the speaker.
BROWN: All right, so no shenanigans.
LALOTA: No shenanigans. No tomfoolery.
BROWN: All right. Well, we will wait and see if your optimism bears out tomorrow.
LALOTA: It's go time. BROWN: Congressman Nick LaLota, thank you so much.
LALOTA: Thanks.
BROWN: And up next. President Biden honors one of Donald Trump's biggest critics at the White House, just weeks before handing over the keys. Will the award come with a preemptive pardon?
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, two targets of President-elect Donald Trump's wrath are among 20 people, President Biden picked for one of the nation's highest civilian awards.
The White House East Room was filled with boisterous applause, as former Republican congresswoman, Liz Cheney, received the Presidential Citizens Medal. She served as Vice Chair of the January 6 committee. Alongside, Democratic congressman, Bennie Thompson, who led the committee, and was also among those honored today. The ceremony comes just 18 days before Trump returns to the Oval Office.
President Biden showing his gratitude and likely making a point on the way out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Today, we celebrate a new group of Americans, who dedicated their careers to serving our democracy in other, in other essential ways.
You are elected officials who served in difficult times with honor, decency, and ensure our democracy delivers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: My sources tonight are CNN Political Commentators, SE Cupp and Bakari Sellers.
Great to see you both.
All right, Bakari, so here's what Trump had to say about Liz Cheney and the rest of the January 6 committee, just last month. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: I think those people committed a major crime.
KRISTEN WELKER, MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS," NBC NEWS: Sir?
TRUMP: And Cheney was behind it.
For what they did-- WELKER: Yes.
TRUMP: --honestly, they should go to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, no evidence of any criminal wrongdoing, I need to note.
But what do you think then -- now about President Biden giving them an award? Do you think that he's politicizing this?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Not at all. I mean, he's not politicizing it.
But I do believe that instead of getting an award, they probably -- excuse me, probably need a pardon more than anything else, and the reason being is because we know that Donald Trump is vindictive. Donald Trump is someone who was twice-impeached.
And January 6th, regardless of the memory hole or the short kind of memory that Republicans have, January 6 was one of the worst days in American history. Period. Point-blank. It simply was. And not to have the smooth transition of power, to watch someone who was an outgoing president, egg this on, to not put a stop to it. I know that people are going to say that he said X, Y and Z.
But the fact of the matter is, we had law enforcement officers, who nearly lost their lives, law enforcement officers who were in the line of fire, law enforcement officers who gave everything they could on January 6th, all because of MAGA at the Capitol. And I think that's going to be a stain on this country's history. It may not be next week or the next week after that. But it's going to be a stain on this country's history for years to come.
BROWN: SE, to bring you in. Biden officials were considering preemptive pardons for certain Trump targets. That has not happened yet. Do you think it ever will?
SE CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I hope not. That seems to be not at all the point of presidential pardons.
We seem to be very far from what presidential pardons were meant for. And that's not just on Biden. That was on Trump and many other presidents before. They seem now to be for helping out favors, favors for your friends and families and political supporters, and to make political statements.
So, I hope she doesn't get a pardon, because she didn't do anything wrong. She doesn't need to be pardoned.
And again, this is so political. And I disagree with my friend Bakari. I think this medal and this ceremony, was entirely political. Bakari is absolutely right. It's one of the darkest days in our history. Giving out medals doesn't seem to go with the tone of what that day meant. History will remember January 6th, correctly. And Liz Cheney will be on the right side of it. And Trump and Republicans who defended him will be on the wrong side of that. I have no doubt. But we don't need to politicize this any further.
[21:45:00]
And I feel like Liz Cheney is just useful for Democrats. And I have to remind people that if she ran for president in 2028, January 6th would be forgotten. Her integrity and character in this moment and the moments that followed January 6th, would not matter for her. She would be a monster for Democrats.
Because if Mitt Romney told us anything, it's that you can be one of the most decent, kindest, honorable people in politics, and still be called a monster, a sexist monster who was going to kill your dog, right?
So, it feels deeply disingenuous. It definitely feels political, to me. And I like Liz Cheney, I'm a fan. But this was an awful day. Let's not make and score political points and exploit it on our way out of office.
BROWN: Bakari?
SELLERS: Yes, I mean, I don't know. And I can't disagree with SE, really. And I don't think this is a time where we're trying to necessarily disagree with each other, about what would happen in 2028.
CUPP: Yes.
SELLERS: One, because we're so far away from that. Democrats have to focus on what's going to happen in Virginia or in New Jersey in 2025, right? So, 2028 is so far away.
Liz Cheney is someone who needs to be admired for her courage. But at the end of the day, I mean, to be respectful, I would never vote for Liz Cheney to be President of the United States or any primary ever, simply because our politics don't align. I mean, she's -- she is 10 times more conservative than Donald Trump would ever be, like that is just a fact of -- that literally is a political fact. I mean, she is someone who represents conservatism. Her dad is Dick Cheney. We do not align politically.
But one of the things we do align on, which is something that politics has gotten away from, is a simple fact that we want our country to be better than what it was yesterday. And we just have a different path on what it --on how to get there.
Pam, let me tell you -- let me tell you this. In South Carolina, I'm a Democrat, but I don't have a lot of successes, politically here. What some of my best friends in the world are people like Tim Scott, right? I would give Tim Scott a kidney, but I would never vote for him. That is where we have to get our politics back to.
Like, I respect Liz Cheney, I respect Tim Scott, I respect these individuals. Never would vote for them, but I respect them. And I think today was simply acknowledging, Joe Biden acknowledging, the fact that we respect these individuals.
BROWN: All right. Bakari Sellers. SE Cupp. Always great to see both of you, for that civil discussion.
CUPP: Thank you.
BROWN: Appreciate it.
CUPP: Yes.
BROWN: Ahead, 18 days until he regains power. The latest details on the President-elect and his inner circle at Mar-a-Lago. Maggie Haberman joins us from Florida.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Just hours after the deadly New Year's Eve truck attack in New Orleans, when confirmed information was scarce, President-elect Trump was quick to suggest, falsely, that the suspect was an immigrant, as some early reporting on the attack said the driver crossed the border from Mexico.
Trump wrote on Truth Social, When I said that the criminals coming in are far worse than the criminals we have in our country, that statement was constantly refuted by Democrats and the Fake News Media, but it turned out to be true.
The law enforcement officials have since identified the driver as a U.S.-born citizen and Army veteran from Texas.
My source on this and more is Maggie Haberman, CNN Political Analyst, and Senior Political Correspondent for The New York Times.
Hi, Maggie. Good to see you.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Pam.
BROWN: So, look, despite the confirmation that the suspect was born in the U.S., Trump is doubling down on this message, saying that Biden's open border policy has led to a violent erosion of safety, national security and democracy.
Now, of course, there are national security concerns about the border. But that doesn't have anything to do with this case in New Orleans. What was behind -- what's behind this?
HABERMAN: Well, what's behind it, Pam, is that Trump has a pretty firm anti-immigrant box in which he fits most things, and this is no exception.
They're tripling down. His communications director, Steven Cheung, sent me a statement, tying, what this incident, to -- loosely tying this incident to examples where immigrants have crossed the border, who had ISIS ties. They were relatively small in number compared to the number of border crossings that are -- crossings there are daily.
But you are going to, I suspect, see President-elect Trump continue to push this, because he has said, and he's said it in a speech in Arizona a couple of weeks ago, that on day one, he is going to seal the border. And I think you are going to see him use this as a reason why, even though, you know -- you don't need to be in touch with people who have come across the border to become radicalized.
And there's so much we don't know about why this suspect in the New Orleans incident developed these views. People can develop these online, as we know.
And so, again, I'm not surprised that Donald Trump is doing this. But this is what he's doing.
BROWN: Right. It is what he's doing. And you just have to wonder what he would have said, had it happened on his watch, right, as he is very close to taking office for a second term.
HABERMAN: Right.
BROWN: In the wake of this attack, Republicans are pushing for quick confirmation of Trump's national security nominees, sort of using this to push for that.
Where do things stand on that front, Maggie?
HABERMAN: I mean, that's an important point here, too, Pam. That's not a surprise that that is where their focus is.
[21:55:00]
There are some nominees who are controversial, not all of them, but some of them certainly are. And they want to move as quickly as they can through these hearings, and apply as much pressure, as they can, on senators who are weighing decisions.
The Trump team is feeling good, they say, about most of the nominees. But not all of them.
There are two in particular, who are facing questions from some senators. One is Tulsi Gabbard. One is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. obviously has nothing -- or not -- actually, not nothing. He does have some to do with the border. But he is not really a national security figure.
Kash Patel, the FBI director, is somebody who Trump is very focused on. His team is feeling -- Trump's team is feeling pretty good about that one.
But they are digging in as hard as they can, knowing that there are uncertainties that come up in hearings. So, we'll see what it looks like. BROWN: What about Pete Hegseth? Do they feel like they know the full universe, of what could--
HABERMAN: That's--
BROWN: --come out with him?
HABERMAN: They are hopeful that they know the full universe, you know? And they want to wait and see what happens at the hearings. But they insist that they believe that he will get through. And they have been pretty consistent on that.
BROWN: Yes, I just wonder, because they were initially caught off- guard with the sexual assault allegation in California. So, I wonder if--
HABERMAN: Right.
BROWN: --they feel like they have their arms around what could come out, and what could be a bruising hearing for him, and potentially others. We'll have to wait and see.
HABERMAN: Right.
BROWN: As we know, Trump has endorsed Mike Johnson to stay on as House Speaker. Any feeling in Trump-world about how this is going to go? Did -- you know -- I know Trump has been making some calls to some of the hold-outs.
HABERMAN: Look, they know that there is extremely little room for error here, in terms of getting Mike Johnson over the line. They have an incredibly narrow margin in the House.
And Trump helped erode Johnson's standing a couple of weeks ago, by helping sink this bipartisan budget agreement that Johnson had worked out with House Democrats.
They claim that they think that they can get him over the line. Like, I do -- I do think that's likelier than not. But these speaker votes, as you know, can get dicey. So, we'll see.
BROWN: We just had a Republican lawmaker on, LaLota, Congressman LaLota, who said, No shenanigans tomorrow.
We will have to wait and see on that front, Maggie. Always great to hear your reporting, and your insights and analysis on everything. Thank you.
HABERMAN: Thanks, Pam.
BROWN: All right. Be sure, join us for special live coverage of "THE VOTE FOR SPEAKER." It begins tomorrow, at noon Eastern, on CNN, right after my show, which starts at 11:00 a.m. Just have to plug that.
Well before we go, a program note. The most popular album in the U.S., the last week of 2024, was a brand-new K-Pop album by a group called Stray Kids. It's just the latest example of K-Pop's exploding popularity in the U.S. And if you didn't know what that was, it's OK, a lot of us didn't either.
But what's less-known is how the K-Pop idol bands come together. It's quite unique, and it's the focus of Sunday night's "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER." Here's a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Explain it to me. What is this trainee program?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (on camera): The trainee program, it's almost 24/7.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): You find these young people, and they're going to train from early in the morning, to late at night, and they're doing everything, dancing, singing, rapping, fitness.
LAH (voice-over): This is industry-wide. All K-Pop companies have similar versions of this demanding trainee program.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on camera): We arrive at the company at 09:50, and we go to the gym at 10 to 12.
Two-hour cardio, and we do this exercise too.
LAH (on camera): That's a lot of exercise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on camera): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Then we eat lunch for an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on camera): And then we all have different classes, like group vocal lessons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Rap.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And a boom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Dance and vocal lessons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on camera): So, it's all in between 1 to 10.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (on camera): If they're very young, they have to go to school. And then right after school, they have to train.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I wake up, get ready, then go to school at 08:30 a.m. I stay until just the second period, then take the bus to come to the office. When I get home, it's around 12.
LAH (on camera): It's late.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (on camera): Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Wow. Be sure to tune in to Kyung Lah's report on creating a K- Pop band on an all-new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER," Sunday at 08:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.
Thank you so much for joining us. I'll see you back for my show at 11:00 a.m., tomorrow morning, just before the speaker vote.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" is up next.
[22:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight, terror at home. What we know about two New Year's Day attacks that shook America's sense of safety.
Plus, he doesn't regret the error. The President-elect pushes bad information about the terror attack, and it gets repeated by his media allies.
Also, the meaning of a medal, Joe Biden awards Liz Cheney--
