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Hundreds Arrested As College Protests Sweep Across America; First Week Of Testimony Wraps In Trump Hush Money Case; Poll: More Than Half Of Americans Support Mass Deportations; Study: Immigrants Have Lower Incarceration Rates Than U.S.-Born. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired April 27, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:06]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Ivan's photo book is titled "Eight Seconds, Black Rodeo Culture." It's out on Tuesday, April 30 and available to preorder now.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I will see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Smerconish is up next.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: A Trojan horse perhaps. I'm Michael Smerconish in Philadelphia.

This week the University of Southern California where nearly 100 arrests have been made amidst protests since the university canceled its Muslim valedictorian speaker announced it was now canceling its mainstage commencement ceremony next month. They cited insufficient time to carry out, quote, "New safety measures." It's the latest most high profile ramification of the surge of pro-Palestinian protests, disrupting campuses all across America, students saying they have a right to free speech, Jewish students saying that speech is often antisemitic. So, what is the current reaction? Are protesters the modern day Greeks who use the deceptive tactic to enter the campus and defeat the Trojans?

Me, I'm sympathetic to the university presidents and administrators who now have to engage in a difficult balancing act. Campuses have become the staging ground for America's growing divide over supporting Israel as it retaliates for Hamas's October 7 attacks. Hundreds were arrested at pro-Palestinian protests and encampments at several major U.S. universities around the country. Friday, Columbia University announced that it had banned the student leading the university's pro- Palestinian protests. A student spokesperson for Columbia's apartheid divest coalition acknowledged that in a past Instagram video he had said, quote, "Zionists don't deserve to live."

Meanwhile, the movement is also proliferating to campuses around the globe from Paris to Rome to England to Australia. Several American schools suspended classes or move them online and some campuses shut down completely. But I say campuses shouldn't close, nor should they permit tents. Tents aren't speech, tents are trespassing. They need to balance those interests, the interests of those who want to protest without hate speech or otherwise inciting violence and within the rules established by these private universities, balance those interests while ensuring that the university community at large can carry on its functioning.

For example, here in Philadelphia at the University of Pennsylvania, the interim president issued a letter to the Penn community on Friday night demanding that the pro-Palestinian protesters on campus disband their Gaza solidarity encampment immediately because of alleged legal and university policy violations, adding that antisemitic graffiti on the statue in front of College Hall will be investigated as a hate crime.

This morning 6:00 a.m., I went to the Penn campus, I wanted to see for myself, it's my alma mater for law school. Nobody seemed awake as I walked around the encampment. Had they been I wanted to ask somebody how many of you are students.

I'm most sympathetic to the students, especially the seniors who right now should be enjoying the last month of class and camaraderie, but are instead fearful, forced to study remotely and now denied the pomp and circumstance that they've earned. And keep this in mind, any member of the college class of 2024 was likely a high school graduate in the spring of 2020. Back then, there were no traditional commencement exercises on account of COVID. So first, an act of God and now an act of cowardice is robbing them of graduation.

At USC, the administration first capitulated to complaints about the controversial views of its valedictorian and then compounded its air by canceling other mainstage commencement speakers, including director John Chu, and tennis legend Billie Jean King before canceling the main commencement altogether. I'm also suspect as to whether this is completely organic. This week on CNN I saw an interview with a self- described 66 year old gentleman who was drawn to the campus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a good day to go to jail. That's Martin Luther King said. I can't believe they're going to start locking up senior citizens. I'm 66 and somebody had to come and support these young people. They're not alone.

That's why I'm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: How many more of the protesters are not active students? Consider this, in its spring 2024 survey of voters aged 18 to 29, the Harvard Kennedy School Institute of Politics found that the Israel- Hamas conflict ranked way down on the list of issues of primary concern to young voters. The top five, most important to this age group inflation, health care, housing, gun violence and jobs. Israel- Palestine rank 15 out of 16, by the way it beat out just student debt.

[09:05:05]

I don't underestimate the significance of the situation in Gaza, especially where famine is a real risk. Netanyahu seems intent on moving into Rafah. And NBC is now reporting that an investigation into seven deadly airstrikes has found that Palestinians were killed in areas of southern Gaza that the Israeli military had explicitly designated as safe zones. Still, it's curious that there was no similar campus activism on abortion rights, the Russian invasion of Ukraine or threats to democracy. Even if the current situation is the result of astroturfing, those protesting have a right to be heard, but not a right to interrupt and overtake the ability of their classmates to complete their term and dawn their cap and gown.

My next guest teaches at one of the campuses affected by the tumble at New York University where protests including intimidating chants, and several antisemitic incidents, NYU called in the NYPD for help. Scott Galloway joins me now. He's a professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business, host of "The Professor G and Pivot" podcasts and author of multiple bestselling books, his newest already a best seller, it's terrific, I've read it, "The Algebra of Wealth, a Simple Formula for Financial Security."

Scott, I'll ask you about the book in a moment. But first, should USC have canceled its main graduation?

SCOTT GALLOWAY, PROFESSOR, NYU STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Good to be with you, Michael. Yes, logistically, I think they had -- they have to ensure the safety and it felt like things were getting kind of spinning out of control. So, I empathize with the university leadership that's trying to thread the needle between free speech while at the same time maintaining a safe environment for its students.

I would argue, though, that the balance is a bit skewed. I think universities have slowly but surely decided that they're more from centers of excellence to institutions that create a political orthodoxy or are charged with social engineering. And what you have here, in my opinion, is a bit of a double standard, Michael. I think the vast majority of the protests are peaceful protests. You know, they're 19, they -- I cut a wide berth for young people in their rights to say things.

But you know, the analogy I use Michaels, if I went down to the plaza at NYU in a white hood and started saying Dylann Roof, the gentleman -- the young man who killed seven people at a black church in Charleston. And I started saying globalize Dylann and held up a sign that said, you know, lynch the blacks, for example, or some sort of hate speech like that, I don't think there'll be a lot of nuance or context needed, I think I would never work in academia again. And if I started inciting the type of behavior, where there was harassment of any special interest group, I believe that if it got out of control that the way it has in some of these campuses, I think they call him the National Guard.

And I think what a lot of Jews are concerned with is that it seems like free speech is never free air when it's hate speech directed at Jews. So I would argue the campus leadership has erred on the side of quite frankly, being a little too lenient to individuals who, for whatever reason correctly or incorrectly, it devolves into emotion that makes people feel unsafe.

The bottom line is, Michael, a lot of us just don't understand that a young Jewish girl leaving the library to go get a manicure is somehow their mortal enemy. I think young people, quite frankly, are pick the wrong enemy here. And it's just gotten a little bit out of control.

SMERCONISH: So, you heard or perhaps you watched the film footage that we showed the map of the country where the growth of these protests has now exploded across the U.S. and perhaps worldwide. What accounts for it? And do you believe it to be completely organic?

GALLOWAY: Well, there's some strange things. I went to the NYU protests, 40 percent of the tents were the same tents at Columbia. So there's something very coordinated going wrong -- going on. I think it's a variety of few things. One, I think that a lot of students incorrectly, in my view, conflate what's going on in Gaza with the civil rights movement.

Two, we have not done a great job or we in colleges have created this oppressor and oppressed orthodoxy. And the easiest way to identify an oppressor in the minds of many of these young people is how white and how rich you are. And ground zero correctly or incorrectly for whiteness and richness is Israel and Jews.

Also, just to be fair, Israel has not draped itself in glory. Netanyahu has struck some deals with the far right including very bigoted members of the Knesset over settlements. We've gone -- we've seen Israel go from kind of the David to the Goliath. So, the atmosphere should not good here.

And then finally, I think there's something bigger going on, Michael. I think that the -- you have young people who are enraged by the lack of opportunity that they're presented with, I think that protesting is kind of the new if you have sex. Young people aren't having as much sex, I know how ridiculous that sounds, but for the species to survive you have to have young people connecting in terms of romantic opportunities. And also for the species to survive, you got a dope a hit from gathering together and fighting off a perceived enemy, and I think they're erring on the ladder, if you will. I think they're on the hunt for what I call a fake mortal enemy.

[09:10:22]

And the reality is if you type in to Google antisemitism and pick any century in the last 3,000 years, you're going to find multiple instances where the world decides the Jews are the mortal enemy. And then finally, and I know that sounds paranoid but it doesn't mean I'm wrong, the frame through which they view the world is oftentimes are predominantly TikTok. And on TikTok, Michael, there are 52 pro-Hamas videos for every one pro-Israel video. So the frame through which they see the world is, in my opinion, being influenced to sow division and chaos within America and divide young from old. Eighty percent of people are age support Israel, it's 20 percent of people under the age of 25.

Something's going on here.

SMERCONISH: In the new book, you have a lot of advice for Americans of all ages, but particularly the youth. And among the things that you advise you turn on its head the time honored advice of follow your passion. Give me the short version of that.

GALLOWAY: Anyone who follows -- tells you to follow your passion is already rich, and made their billions in iron ore smelting. Your job is to find your talent, something you could become a ninja like master of. Mastery will give you economic security, camaraderie, relevance, a larger selection set of mates than you deserve. And whatever enables you to do these things you will become passionate about that thing. No tax lawyer dreams -- no child dreams of becoming a tax lawyer.

But the best tax lawyers fly private, and have really nice lives. So your job is to find your talent. And ideally, in an industry that has a 90 plus percent employment rate, a lot of young people mistake hobbies for their passion. And if you want to be an actor, an athlete, a model, just recognize, open a restaurant and nightclub, just recognize. If you don't get strong green signals that you're in the 0.1 percent, then find something else.

There are 180,000 actors in SAG-AFTRA union, 87 percent of them last year didn't qualify for health insurance because they didn't make $23,000. So your job is to find your talent in an industry with a 90 plus percent employment rate, which by the way is about 98 percent of industries. And what I can promise you is that you will become very passionate about the ability to take care of your kids with an absence of stress, stress to take care of your parents, to do wonderful fun things that a capitalist society provides. Be passionate about economic security.

SMERCONISH: The book is titled "The Algebra of Wealth." Hey, Scott, stay there. I'm going to put on the screen social media reaction to our conversation, and I'll lean on you to respond. Smerconish, no. arrest them and let the rest of the student body continue like normal.

I don't know what they're disagreeing. I said clear the tents. I don't think that they have a right to set up encampments. By the way, I think I saw a couple of Orvis and L.L.Bean tents on the Penn campus this morning at 6:00. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I've got one myself.

What do you think they should be doing specifically, Scott, relative to those sleeping out overnight on college campuses?

GALLOWAY: I mean, I got to -- you got to empathize with them. I think other than the MAGA Trump defense attorney, the worst job in the world right now is to be a campus administrator. President Linda Mills, I think at NYU got it right. You have a right to protest, but if you put up a camp, you're trespassing. Anything resembling hate speech will break up the meaning -- the protests.

But also, we got to drop sharp relief between a 19-year-old who has the right. I mean, Michael, thank God we didn't have cameras following us around when we're 19. I think we've cut a wide berth for a 19-year- old student who we're not focused enough on. And quite frankly --

SMERCONISH: I agree.

GALLOWAY: -- I think deserve different treatment are the faculty demonstrating. And quite frankly, if you join an organization that is paying you and you don't have the critical thinking not to support the Islamic Republic, and a murderous autocracy that would summarily kill most of our students whether they were gay or Christian, then we screwed up as your colleagues and you should not be working at a university. You should go exercise your rights to free speech somewhere else. And you should -- quite frankly, I think these faculty members should be summarily fired.

SMERCONISH: I'll see on radio Monday. Thank you, Scott.

GALLOWAY: Thank you, Michael. Good to be with you.

SMERCONISH: You too.

I want to know what you think. Go to my website at smerconish.com. Answer today's poll question, should universities permit protesting students to sleep in tents on school property?

Up ahead. The first week of witness testimony is in the books for the Trump hush money trial. So, what did we learn? By the way, if you subscribe to the newsletter at smerconish.com when you're voting on the poll question, you're going to get exclusive editorial cartoons from legends like Rob Rogers. Check that out.

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[09:19:33]

SMERCONISH: This week began the testimony in Donald Trump's hush money criminal trial. David Pecker, the former publisher of the National Enquirer in the witness box for all four days detailing his involvement with running stories favorable to Trump and burying those that might hurt him. Friday also brought short testimony from Trump executive assistant Rhona Graff, and Michael Cohen's former banker Gary Farro. There was also a hearing on whether Trump was violating the gag order imposed by Judge Juan Merchan. Trump continued his pattern of speaking out about the case outside of the courtroom the trial resumes again on Tuesday.

[09:20:05]

Joining me now is criminal defense attorney Arthur Aidala.

Arthur, on that key issue of the purpose of the payments, the prosecution was able to get in through David Pecker that this was about the campaign, not protecting Trump's family. How can Trump get into evidence his side of that unless he testifies?

ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning and it's a privilege to be on with you, sir. I'm a fan from -- I love to say that on television.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

AIDALA: So, you want to know the easy way? The easy way is at the end of the people's case, Donald Trump takes the stand. He looks at the jury with the first question, because, of course, I didn't want Melania to know about this. Of course, I didn't want my kids to know about this. Yes.

Was there a part of it that I was running for president? Yes. But I didn't -- yes, you think I need these problems at home? It's enough of a headache to run for president United States. I don't need my wife hit me over the head with a bat. That's the easiest way to do it.

Now, Tuesday this week, the judge made some rulings in what we call a New York Sandoval rulings, which is what the government -- what the people can ask him, the prosecutors and ask him if he testified. And for a for a defendant who's got no criminal record at his age, Judge Merchan actually allowed a lot in, that could change because Thursday, the highest court in the state of New York, the Court of Appeals, handed down a decision in the case that I tried and argued in the court of appeals the case of the people of the state of New York versus Harvey Weinstein. And that court there said, well, to all of the courts in the whole state of New York, we want defendants to be able to tell their side of the story. And judges should be very cautious about making rulings that prevent defendants from coming in and telling their side of the story because they have been dirtied up by issues not involving this case.

So in Trump's case, you know, E. Jean Carroll, a defamation with E. Jean Carroll, and the civil case regarding the attorney general, that's got nothing to do with this case. But what Judge Merchan has ruled is if Donald Trump does come into testify to say, I paid this hush money for my wife and children, as well as the campaign which would help him tremendously. He's -- Judge Merchan says, but no, you can ask him about all those other things that have nothing to do with this case.

Maybe now, based on this 77 page decision from the highest court in the state of New York and people v. Harvey Weinstein, Merchan got to go back and think about that one more time and make sure he's not violating the law of the land that really has been reinstated. It was kind of thrown out since the Harvey Weinstein case four years ago until now. Judges have cited, people v. Weinstein, oh, we can let it in. We can let it in. We can let it in. That stopped on Thursday when the Court of Appeals had the courage to say even very unpopular people still should be protected by the laws of our land.

SMERCONISH: OK. Notwithstanding what you've said -- notwithstanding, pardon me, what he has said, Trump, you still think it highly unlikely he testifies in his own defense, right?

AIDALA: Yes. I -- and if you notice, I think I'm one of the shows yesterday that Anderson showed last night. He started to hedge. He started -- the president started to hedge. He started saying, well, I'm ready to, like, if they need me, if that's necessary.

SMERCONISH: Right. Right.

AIDALA: I mean, look --

SMERCONISH: Arthur -- AIDALA: -- cross examining him would be a field day.

SMERCONISH: Arthur, another question. Melania. Catherine (ph), do you have to put up on the screen? I had a poll question yesterday on my website, and I asked if she ever steps foot in the hush money courtroom, 97 percent said, hell no. Yes, there it is. And we had a lot of voting on that.

If you were his defense lawyer, would you try and cajole her to show up one day on a day when the testimony is not too racy? Just as a show of support and to force the jurors to have to look at the fact that she is standing by her man.

AIDALA: Yes, I mean, the short answer to your question is yes. As much of a distraction, it would be as much of a sideshow would be. Juries are human beings. You got to great defense attorney reaches into their hearts. Yes, you got to be in their heads.

But if you really want to win a case that is hard to win, you've got to crawl into their hearts as an -- as a human being, as the defense attorney yourself. You don't want them to let you down, defense attorney, Susan Necheles. You don't want them to feel like I'm letting her down. And one of the ways to do that is to humanize your client. He is an extraordinary client, but so was Harvey Weinstein.

But somehow or another, you -- that's your job. That's what you get paid the big bucks for. And having Melania there one day, having one of his daughters there one day, the jurors are human beings and say, well, maybe this guy is a much of a scam as I've read about or heard about or whatever if he's got this loving family who was really it's not going to be fun for them to come to court. It's just not a pleasant scene, but they're getting over that to be there to support that man.

[09:25:13]

SMERCONISH: Arthur, thank you for your commentary. I really appreciate it.

AIDALA: Pleasures all mine. Thank you, sir.

SMERCONISH: Via social media, Catherine, what do we have? From the world of X, the Trump trials are only sending hardcore Trumpers back into his arms. This got you strategy is going to elect Trump in 2024. You heard it here first.

Well, Kelly Ann, you would not be the first to say that. I don't think it's only hardcore Trumpers. The hardcore Trumpers aren't moving. The needle is not moving based on this case. Yes.

I've seen the poll 24 percent say they'd consider abandoning him. I don't believe it. The impact I'm interested in are the independence and do they perceive this to be as piling on? I don't know the answer to that question.

I want to remind you, go to my website@smerconish.com vote on today's poll question, should universities permit protesting students to sleep in tents on school property?

Up ahead, amid a record number of border crossings, a new poll finds that more than half of Americans say they're in favor of mass deportation? What if they knew that the generally held beliefs about immigrants contributing to crime is not true and in fact, they are less incarcerated than those born in the U.S.? We're going to take a look at that data.

Be sure to sign up for my daily newsletter when you're voting on the poll question at smerconish.com You'll get exclusive content from Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist Steve Breen. Check that out.

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