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State of the Union

Interview with Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton; Interview with Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen; Interview with Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA). Aired 12-1p ET

Aired September 11, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Remembering the Queen. After more than 70 years on the throne, the world honors Queen Elizabeth II, and the royal family opens a new chapter.

KING CHARLES III, UNITED KINGDOM: I pray for the guidance and help of Almighty God.

BASH: What was the monarch like one on one? My exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton and British Ambassador Dame Karen Pierce next.

And Russian retreat. Ukrainian troops retake a strategic city and appear to open a new front in the battle.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The main goal is de-occupation.

BASH: Is this the beginning of a new phase? We'll ask Senate Intelligence Chairman Mark Warner ahead.

Plus, two months and counting. The first votes are cast in the 2022 midterms as President Biden heads to the Midwest to make his case.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: Made in America is no longer just a slogan, it's happening.

BASH: Are Americans buying the Biden economy? I'll speak exclusively to Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (on camera): Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our Union is remembering at home and abroad.

We begin in Great Britain where Queen Elizabeth II just completed the first leg of her final journey through the United Kingdom. She traveled from Balmoral Castle and arrived in Edinburgh a short while ago with crowds of people paying their respects along the way, honoring the monarch who served them for more than 70 years. And honor guard welcoming the Queen's coffin at the palace of the

Holyroodhouse where it will remain overnight. Her children, Princess Anne, Princes Andrew and Edward on hand for this first stop as the coffin makes its way to London on an eventual path to Westminster Abbey for her funeral eight days from now.

Meantime here at home, another solemn day to remember. In New York, officials are still reading the names of nearly 3,000 people who lost their lives on 9/11 in that horrific attack 21 years ago today, honoring the victims who died at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and in a field in Pennsylvania.

Joining me now, former secretary of state and first lady, Hillary Clinton. She was serving as U.S. senator from New York on September 11th, 2001.

Madam Secretary, thank you so much for joining me.

You say September 11th is indelibly etched in your mind. You flew over the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center in a helicopter after the attack.

What's going through your mind today 21 years later?

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, Dana, every time we approach September 11th, I do think about everything that I saw, all the people that I met, the families of those who lost loved ones. So it is indelibly part of my memories, and I feel grateful that we were able to come together as a country at that really terrible time. We put aside differences. I wish we could find ways of doing that again.

We rebuilt New York. We have done our best to take care of the families that lost so much on that terrible day. And we have also, I think, been reminded about how important it is to try to deal with extremism of any kind, especially when it uses violence to try to achieve political and ideological goals.

So, I'm one who thinks that there are lessons still to be learned from what happened to us on 9/11, that we should be very aware of during this time in our country and the world's history.

BASH: You mentioned how the country came together. I actually want to play a clip of what you told CNN the night of September 11th, 2001. You were talking to Jon Karl. I was Capitol Hill producer with him at the time.

Listen to what you said about President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: This was an attack on America and the president of the United States is our president, and we will support him in whatever steps he deems necessary to take. We can't let these evil acts in any way deter us from, you know, making it clear that the United States is resolute, and we are going to support the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Just listening to that, it is such a striking reminder of how all of America's elected officials really genuinely put party aside and came together after those attacks. Would that be possible today?

CLINTON: Well, I hope that it will be, and I give President Biden a lot of credit for trying to continue to reach out to people, while still sounding the alarm about the threats to our democracy.

[12:05:02]

You know, I remember very well two days after I gave that interview being in the Oval Office with then President Bush, who asked me what we needed. And I told him we needed $20 billion to rebuild New York. And he said you've got it, and he was good to his word. And there were all kinds of political conversations about that. But he never wavered.

And I wish now that people would come together behind President Biden, who is doing an amazing job trying to rebuild our manufacturing sector, trying to deal with climate change, expand healthcare, and all the other things, including trying to do something about gun violence. That the vast majority of Americans approve of.

So, we are in a funny position, Dana, because there's a small but very vocal, very powerful, very determined minority who wants to impose their views on all the rest of us. And it's time for everybody regardless of party to say, no, that's not who we are as America.

BASH: We are remembering Queen Elizabeth today. Most of us knew her from afar. You actually got to meet her personally, first as first lady. You stayed with her later at Buckingham Palace when you were secretary of state, you enjoyed her gardens with her.

Can you tell us something about Queen Elizabeth that we wouldn't know but you got to experience firsthand?

CLINTON: Well, she was an engaging and lively conversationalist. She asked great questions. She was interested in what was going on in the United States, elsewhere in the world.

Another one of my favorite memories is when Bill and I stayed with her and Prince Philip on the Britannia, what used to be the royal yacht, as we commemorated the 50th anniversary of D-Day.

So, we were close quarters. The queen mother was there. It was just like being with a family that was having a good time together despite the solemnity of the occasion.

And, so, in my encounters with her, I admired her devotion to duty and her sense of obligation to the people of her nation. And she was never wavering from what she said when she first became a very young queen until literally two days before she died when she (AUDIO GAP) the incoming prime minister. But I also saw a more playful and somewhat, you know, funny and very incredibly warm side of her as well.

BASH: Well, the world just lost a female head of state who was on the throne for more than 70 years. She lived through 14 U.S. presidents, including your husband, as you mentioned, 15 British prime ministers, seven popes.

In your private moments together, did you ever talk to her about what it's like to be a female leader?

CLINTON: I can't say that I talked at any length. Sometimes there would be, you know, a rye exchange about, you know, how as a woman leader, you always had to have your hair done, and, of course, she always looked perfect, unlike some of us. She had a sense of style that really stayed with her.

And so I knew that her sense of who she was and the role she played literally governed her life from every second of it.

You know, I heard an interesting statistic, Dana, which is that nine out of ten people alive in the world today were born after she became queen.

BASH: Wow.

CLINTON: So she not only lived through this period, but, you know, 90 percent of the people in the world had her as a symbol of a strong stalwart woman leader. And, yes, as she herself would say, she didn't have the powers that the first Queen Elizabeth did, she had the role of continuity and all of the presidents, all of the prime ministers, everyone that she met I think saw that twinkle in her eye, and maybe we're lucky enough to exchange pleasantries that went beyond just the official greetings.

And that's how I felt. I felt very fortunate to see her in different settings over the, you know, time that I knew her as first lady and then secretary of state.

BASH: You have a new show on Apple TV+ with your daughter Chelsea called "Gutsy." It's about the stories of women you called household names and unsung heroes.

Who do you think the gutsiest people in U.S. politics are right now?

[12:10:05]

CLINTON: I think Nancy Pelosi is the gutsiest woman in politics right now because she has shown through all kinds of turmoil and challenge, what it means to, somewhat like the queen, to be drawing an analogy here, get up every day, put on those high heels she wears, suit up, to fight for the values and ideals that she strongly believes in.

And, of course, our Vice President Kamala Harris is someone who is breaking totally new ground. And I know that's not easy, having done a little of that myself. And she's doing it with, you know, good humor and a smile on her face despite the challenges that come with the role.

So those are two that immediately come to mind. There were many others, both at the federal and the state and local levels. And I hope there are many more, because that's what I am continuing to work toward.

BASH: While I have you, I want to ask about the FBI search at Mar-a- Lago. You said this week that you don't want to prejudge because you have been prejudged in your life. I know your infamous emails were investigated, you were cleared.

But you've dealt with classified information as former secretary of state, as a senator. If the Justice Department decides that former President Donald Trump actually committed a crime, do you think he should be treated like any other citizen? Or should the DOJ take into account the potential real-world consequences of indicting a former president and potential 2024 candidate?

CLINTON: I think it's a really hard call. And I cannot predict what the justice department will do at the end of its investigation. But I do think the rule of law holding people accountable is central to our nation.

And both as secretary of state and as a private citizen, I have answered every question I've ever been asked, I've testified for 11 hours. I've, you know, been involved in anything that was asked of me to try to answer any kind of issue. I think that's the way the system is supposed to work, even if you are, you know, not sure why you're being with the spotlight on you.

And therefore I really believe that at the end of the day, no one is above the law and no one should be escaping accountability if indeed the facts in the evidence point to them having done something that anyone else in our country would be investigated for and maybe even charged.

BASH: So it sounds like you're saying that he should be treated like he were -- he would if he was Donald J. Trump, somebody who was a civilian, an average citizen, and not a former president or a potential candidate?

CLINTON: I do because, I mean, he's -- he's not the president and we do have some special exceptions for someone actually in the office. So I do think that, just like any American, if there is evidence, that evidence should be pursued.

But I know it's not an easy call. And so I don't want to inject, you know, my opinion into that difficult calculation, because I don't know all the facts. And unlike people who jump to conclusions, I don't want to do that. But if the evidence proves or seems to show that there are charges that should be level, then I think the rule of law should apply to anyone.

BASH: Madam Secretary, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez gave an interview this week. And she was talking about how she feels conflicted when little girls tell her that they want to be president.

She said, I never want to tell a little girl what she can't do. But she's seen how many people, quote, hate women. And sometimes she believes she lives in a country that would never let that happen.

You got closer than any other woman in this country to being president. What do you think?

CLINTON: Well, I think it's sad that we have so many people who seem to either resent or oppose women in the public arena, whether it's politics in government or the media or anything else. That's something we have to keep standing up against and speaking out against.

And I think that a woman will become our president at some point. I certainly understand all of the obstacles you have to overcome to get there.

But I continue to tell young women and girls that if they feel motivated to pursue political office, they should do so with their eyes wide open about how hard it is.

[12:15:03]

And, unfortunately, social media, with all of its misogyny, has made it more difficult.

But we can't be bullied into silence or giving up on our own dreams. We have to continue to pursue them and encourage others to do the same.

BASH: Well-said. Thank you so much. I have to say that I am quite tired because I stayed up way too late bingeing your new show called "Gutsy." It's really -- it's really great. A lot of really interesting stories that you tell, including some about yourself that I never heard.

So thank you again for joining me. I really appreciate it.

CLINTON: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: We are just 58 days away from the crucial midterm elections. Can President Biden convince voters to look past record inflation and see his party's latest economic wins? Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

The first early votes have officially been cast in the 2022 midterm elections with just over eight weeks to go. Poll after poll shows the economy is one of the top issues for voters right now, and the White House is taking notice. President Biden and top cabinet officials are hitting the road in key battleground states, hoping to convince voters that despite high inflation, the Biden economy is working.

Joining me to discuss is Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen who is just back from a trip to Michigan.

Thank you so much for joining me, Madam Secretary.

On your trip to the Midwest this week, you said: Our plan has worked.

A lot of people, as you know, are not feeling that way. A new poll shows -- 62 percent, rather, of Americans think we're in a recession. Inflation is near a 40-year high. Wage growth is slowing.

What do you say to Americans who say the Biden economy isn't working for us?

JANET YELLEN, TREASURY SECRETARY: So, inflation is way too high, and it's essential that we bring it down and that's something that Americans feel every day. And I think it's what's causing them tremendous distress.

And, of course, that is President Biden's, our administration's, top economic priority to do that. But we're not in a recession.

The labor market is exceptionally strong. The unemployment rate extremely low, there are almost two job vacancies for every worker who's looking for a job. We've had an historically fast recovery of the labor market with around 10 million jobs created since President Biden took office.

And, of course, we've had shocks that the economy has suffered, supply shocks, the impact of COVID, and, very importantly, Russia's illegal war against Ukraine that have driven up energy costs and food costs. But we've tried to address that in the short run by releases of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve --

BASH: Right.

YELLEN: -- gas prices have been coming down now for almost the last three months, last month in July, headline inflation was actually slightly negative. And we are addressing inflation. Of course, the Fed plays a key role.

BASH: Well, I want to ask you about exactly that. I want you to learn to what Senator Elizabeth Warren told me two weeks ago after Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell warned that Americans could face, quote, some pain as he continues to raise interest rates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): What he calls some pain means putting people out of work, shutting down small businesses because the cost of money goes up, because the interest rates go up. I'm very worried that the Fed is going to tip this economy into recession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Do you share her worry?

YELLEN: Well, of course, it's a concern. The Fed is going to need great skill and also some good luck to achieve what we sometimes call a soft landing, which is bringing inflation down while maintaining the strength of the labor market. And my hope, I believe, there is a path to accomplishing that. And my hope is that we will achieve a soft landing.

But Americans know that it's essential to bring inflation down. And over the longer run, we can't have a strong labor market without inflation under control.

BASH: You said that there is not a recession currently. Are you worried that a recession could come? Is it still a threat?

YELLEN: Well, it is a risk when the Fed is tightening monetary policy to redress inflation. So it's certainly a risk that we're monitoring. And we're seeing some slowdown in growth, but that's natural because when President Biden took office, the economy was in a deep hole. Output and employment were well short of their normal and potential levels.

We experienced, largely due to the American Rescue Plan, very rapid growth and jobs came back, workers -- you know, we face something --

BASH: Yeah.

YELLEN: -- that could have been as serious as the Great Depression.

And with a 3.7 percent unemployment rate, that's a good strong labor market, and people are seeing many opportunities and getting wage increases --

BASH: Yeah.

YELLEN: -- higher food and energy prices are having a negative impact.

[12:25:05]

But we've a good strong labor market and I believe it's possible to maintain that.

BASH: And on the question of inflation, you know very well that the Fed is considering raising interest rates in order to address what you admit is inflation that is too high.

As treasury secretary, I understand you have to be careful not to tell the Fed what to do, but it sometimes seems like you're trying to relay a message. Like when you and President Biden talk about, quote, not giving up the gains that the economy has made in the last two years.

So, do you want the Fed to take it easy on rate hikes?

YELLEN: Well, I want the Fed to use their own best judgment. They're independent, and they have great expertise, proficiency in evaluating what it's going to take to bring inflation down. And we're going to leave them to use their own independent, best judgment to try to accomplish that.

I believe our goals are very well-aligned. We want to see a strong labor market and inflation coming down to more normal levels. BASH: You talked about gas prices coming down, and last week, you

praised an agreement among G7 countries to finalize a price cap on Russian oil.

Gas prices have actually fallen --

YELLEN: Yes.

BASH: -- about $1.40 from their peak. Some are worried, though --

YELLEN: Yes.

BASH: -- that they could go back up in the winter.

Should Americans be ready for that?

YELLEN: Well, it's a risk. And it's a risk that we're working on the price cap to try to address.

This winter, the European Union will cease, for the most part, buying Russian oil. And, in addition, they will ban the provision of services that enable Russia to ship oil by tanker. And it is possible that that could cause a spike in oil prices.

Our price cap proposal is designed to both lower Russian revenues that they use to support their economy and fight this illegal war, while also maintaining Russian oil supplies that will help to hold down global oil prices.

So I believe this is something that can be essential, and it's something that we're trying to put in place to avoid future spike in oil prices.

BASH: Before I let you go, just one final quick question. More than 90,000 railroad workers in the U.S. are poised to go on strike at the end of this coming week. The move could wreak havoc on supply chains that are already having some issues.

How likely is the strike? And what should Americans be prepared for?

YELLEN: Well, I know that the administration is, the White House is closely monitoring the negotiations, and we certainly hope that they will be successful in avoiding damaging supply shock to the economy.

BASH: Let's hope so.

Secretary Yellen, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

YELLEN: Thank you, Dana. Thanks for having me.

BASH: The Justice Department and Donald Trump's lawyers have officially submitted their picks for a special master to review the documents seized from Mar-a-Lago. Spoiler alert: they don't agree.

The head of the Senate Intelligence Committee is here, Senator Mark Warner of Virginia. We'll speak next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:33:12]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: Is this the beginning of a campaign to roll back the Russian invasion of February 24th?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): You know that our goal is to de-occupy our whole territory. The main goal is de-occupation. We just cannot allow Russia to continue the same occupation that they started back in 2014.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. That was Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an interview with Fareed Zakaria. You can watch that full interview at 1:00 p.m.

The new comments come as Russia makes a major retreat. Ukrainian forces say they have taken back a key strategic city from the Russians after five months of occupation. And the Russian defense ministry is admitting that the decision was made to regroup troops.

Joining me now is the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Democrat Mark Warner of Virginia.

So, what do you make of what the Ukrainians say, at least officials on the ground say, a flag being raised in towns very close to the Russian border, the Ukrainian military claims that they severed a main artery for Russian forces.

What are you hearing? What does the intelligence tell us?

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Well, Dana, what you're seeing is great gains by the Ukrainians. Part of that coming about because of the tremendous support from the United States and our NATO allies to make sure they get the military equipment they need. But part of that as well is coming about because of our intelligence community working with our friends the Ukrainians and the Brits in particular have really kept the Russians a little bit -- and Putin in particular on his back -- back heel.

So I think this kind of collaboration shows the strength of our combined military and intel, and that we all wish the Ukrainians well.

[12:35:00]

BASH: Enough strength to signal a potential victory for Ukraine?

WARNER: Let's see how this plays out. Clearly, I think the Russians were expecting the counteroffensive in the south, not in the northeast. And the Ukrainians are demonstrating their will to fight, and that's one of the things you can never fully estimate no matter how good your intelligence is.

And, candidly, the Russians' inability and lack of supplies to their troops is playing out as well.

BASH: Let's talk about the search and seizure of documents at Mar-a- Lago last month. The FBI took, among the documents, they took 31 confidential, 54 secret, 18 top-secret documents.

You are the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. This happened over a month ago. You have still not been briefed on what they got.

WARNER: My committee, which I'm proud to say is the last fully bipartisan functional --

BASH: First of all, do I have that right, you haven't been briefed?

WARNER: We have not been briefed.

BASH: Why?

WARNER: We expect to be briefed. But one of the things that has happened has been when the judge in Florida issued this mandate about a special master, there's a question whether the ODNI and the DOJ, even though they can continue the damage assessment, can actually brief us. I think we'll get some clarity on that in the next couple of days and we'll expect to get that briefing.

But let's remember what's at stake, and I don't know what's in these documents. But if these documents contain human intelligence, people's lives could be lost, if that's exposed. If it signals intelligence, things that we've invested years on working on can be destroyed. If it's intelligence that comes from some of our allies, we talk about how we're working with the British in terms of supporting the Ukrainians, if that information that is shared amongst allies was somehow exposed in these documents -- that's why getting to the bottom of this and making a damage assessment -- the DOJ effort, that's -- we don't have purview over that, but the damage assessment to our intelligence capabilities is critical that we have.

BASH: But the fact that your job as Senate intelligence chairman is to have oversight, it's the reason we have checks and balances, one branch has oversight over another. And even before the special master situation, which is just in the past few days, why didn't you get a handle on what was potentially exposed in terms of the nation's top secrets?

WARNER: There are a lot of documents to be reviewed. I think the ODNI and others were waiting for, frankly, the House and the Senate to come back and whether they just briefed the leadership or the so-called Gang of Eight, I think there was a little bit of surprise with this special master request.

But as I've tried to point out, I mean, I think we need to trust the FBI, we need to trust the Justice Department. I may not agree with the special master, but I don't think we can pick and choose which part of our legal system we ought to support. BASH: So you don't have any concerns about the integrity of the

investigation now that the special master or independent person has been selected (ph).

(CROSSTALK)

WARNER: I may not -- I may not agree with that, but, again, I think all of us ought to take a deep breath and, frankly, not question legitimacy of these organizations like the Justice Department or some of these comments against FBI agents, I think that's beyond the pale because, clearly, we don't want -- seen these documents, but I said, if it's human intelligence, signals intelligence, intelligence shared with our allies, if that was somehow not handled appropriately, the lesson you learn in the Intelligence Committee is you've got to keep this information secret.

There's documents that I've had a chance to review where someone literally sits in the room with me and they take those documents then away. This is -- there's a reason why we have this law of classification.

BASH: Well, on that -- on that note, I want you to listen to what the vice chairman of your committee, Marco Rubio, said about the search of the president's Mar-a-Lago home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): This is really, at its core, a storage argument that they're making, right? They're arguing there are documents there. They don't deny that he should have access to those documents.

I don't think a fight over storage of documents is worthy of what they've done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Is that what this is, just a storage argument?

WARNER: Listen, we have jointly made a request for this briefing damage assessment. Everyone on the Intelligence Committee realizes the importance of top secret documents --

BASH: So why would he say it's just storage?

WARNER: Again, let's see what these documents are. Let's say how bad the damage could be if they have been inappropriately handled. I think this is an extraordinarily serious matter.

And the process will play out. We've seen lots of press reports about what these documents might include, whether it's information about other world leaders or about nuclear powers. I don't think anyone would legitimately say that's not critically important information that needs to be guarded appropriately.

BASH: Before I let you go, today is the 21st anniversary of the attack of September 11th, 2001. As the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, is America safe today?

WARNER: America is safer. But what I reflect on is that 21 years ago, I was in the middle of a political campaign. The attack happened, and suddenly the differences with my opponent seemed very minor. We were all Americans first and foremost.

The only thing that gives me pause is 20 years later, while we've defeated the terrorists, it was literally insurrectionists attacking our Capitol on January 6th trying to overturn a legitimate presidential election.

[12:40:07]

It's in many ways as if the aspirations of trying to take down the basic tenets of our democracy is being played out by other forces now. And that is something that we all have to guard against.

BASH: Senate Intelligence Chairman Mark Warner, thank you so much for coming in on this solemn morning. I appreciate it.

An unexpected public display of unity from some of the Queen's own family members, you see it right there, is this a new chapter for the royal family? That and the latest from the Queen's final journey, after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:07]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

You're looking at pictures of Queen Elizabeth's casket arriving in the Scottish capital this morning. It's just the beginning of a week-long final journey leading to her funeral.

Joining me now is Sally Bedell Smith, Julia Chatterley, and Hilary Fordwich.

Thank you so much for coming.

We talked all morning about this dramatic move through Scotland, a place that she loved. I want to talk about another dramatic moment, maybe so far the dramatic and surprising moment since the Queen died, which is her grandsons Harry and William and their spouses showing up. There you go, outside Windsor. And walking together, which they didn't say much, but they said a lot just with their action.

What do you make of that?

HILARY FORDWICH, ROYAL WATCHER: Well, I would say this, is that it was totally and utterly unexpected. The media that were there were just told that there would be somebody coming. They didn't realize who would be coming and the crowds were absolutely shocked.

It was interesting to hear the gasp right when Meghan went over, she went over to greet people, and you saw there was one woman who would not make eye contact. But not only that, a picture says a thousand words, right? Body language is everything. What was very interesting to see that the duchess of Cambridge wasn't very close to her.

I do think this is really important, a moment in history that obviously they are trying to step up for their grandmother's sake, a step of forgiveness. An olive branch had been extended to them to attend Balmoral with their children, with their -- her grandchildren and all the great grandchildren, which they had declined. But purportedly, it was a call and a command from the new King Charles to have Prince William make the phone call.

I would say from looking at it, it remains to be seen how long this goes. And I do know there was a breaking of protocol from what was expected of Meghan. That will remain to be seen.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: I think it's good because we have to rise above in this moment, and this moment is about celebrating the life of the Queen. So, there was clearly speculation over who made the decision, who called who. Did Charles call William and said, hey, make that phone call to Harry to get them out there?

This is not about them, this is about showing unity and caring about the Queen and showing respect for the Queen. So, what comes next, who knows? But I'm glad, as someone who openly would admit that my heart's there, my head may be here, but my heart is there, I'm glad that all four of them are together. And I pray actually that this is the moment, a pivot moment where some good can come. I am concerned perhaps not.

FORDWICH: Putting their past behind them.

CHATTERLEY: I hope.

BASH: United in grief.

Sally, can you sort of just take it up a few thousand feet and talk about this from a historical perspective, this moment in our world's history?

SALLY BEDELL SMITH, JOURNALIST AND ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Well, we're losing somebody who's absolutely irreplaceable, who's been part of our lives for 70 years as Queen. And I think it's even taking a few days for it to sink in that she really is gone. And we're going to have a new -- we have a new king, and we hope that he has a very successful reign, but everything she symbolized, her values, her work ethic, her absolute love for her country, for the Commonwealth, are really unmatchable.

And she presided over a period of time, she lived through World War II, she was a genuinely significant historic figure who may, in the fullness of time, be called Elizabeth the Great. Even though she didn't have overt power, she had an enormous influence, and she set such a high standard not only for her subjects but for people around the world, for all the values that she represented.

CHATTERLEY: A Queen of hearts, I think, and a great heart. FORDWICH: Yes, on the note of the hearts, it was actually former King

Abdullah who said that there will come a day -- and this is years ago when George VI was alive, he said there's going to come a day when they're going to be four -- five kings, and there are going to be the king of hearts, club, spades, and he said, and the king of England, not realizing it'd be a queen.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely right.

BASH: It's funny how sometimes men make those mistakes. Thank you so much.

And since the very first day, CNN came on the air, Bernie Shaw was there. We say farewell to one of our biggest role models here at CNN in news and in life.

[12:50:03]

Stay with us.

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BASH: Before we go, my colleagues at STATE OF THE UNION and I want to pay tribute to a member of CNN royalty -- longtime anchor Bernard Shaw, who passed away this week at age 82.

For 20 years, Bernie was the network's lead anchor, grounding CNN with his journalistic excellence and steady manner. That was never more on display than when he famously and courageously reported live from Baghdad during the First Gulf War.

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BERNARD SHAW, CNN ANCHOR: The skies over Baghdad have been illuminated. We are seeing bright flashes going off all over the sky.

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BASH: Bernie was a barrier breaker, one of the first Black men to sit at a network anchor desk. He was one of CNN founder Ted Turner's first hires here and helped make this startup a juggernaut journalistically around the world.

On a personal note, Bernie was the lead anchor when I joined CNN in 1993. I was fresh out of college. He was always kind to me, and everyone else he worked with no matter how junior we were.

Here's what Bernie told us right here at CNN when he was about to retire in 2001.

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SHAW: Through the years, I have believed that you, our viewers need only reliable information and facts of relevance to know and to decide the truth. You don't need me telling you what I think is the truth. And many times this journalistic hot seat, rightly, draws critical fire, as it should.

We must have your scrutiny and be answerable. Why? Because you have placed in our keeping your trust.

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BASH: May you rest in peace, Bernie, and may your memory be a blessing.

Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us.

"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" is next.