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State of the Union

Interview With Sen. Raphael Warnock (D-GA); Interview With Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC); Interview With Rep. Byron Donalds (R-FL). Aired 9-10a ET

Aired October 13, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:40]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST (voice-over): Crunch time. Just over three weeks until Election Day, and both sides are battling for a sliver of undecided Americans' votes.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kamala Harris got you into this mess. Trump is going to get you out of it.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know that he does not have the ability to do the job.

BASH: With the race excruciatingly close, whose message will break through? Georgia Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock is next.

And key bloc. Both campaigns court black male voters.

TRUMP: I have gone through the roof with black man.

HARRIS: He's not looking out for you.

BASH: Is their support for Democrats slipping? South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn joins me exclusively.

Plus: aftermath. President Biden visits Florida after deadly Hurricane Milton ripped a trail of destruction across the state. What's next for the battered region? Florida Congressman Byron Donalds's will be here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Hello. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is watching a nail-biter.

We are 23 days from a presidential election that is essentially tied. The question now, which candidate can convince more of that crucial slice of undecided voters to turn out? We're getting more details every day about why this race is so close.

New polling shows Donald Trump falling further behind with women, while some black and Hispanic voters drift away from Democrats. Both Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris are trying to shore up that support this week.

CNN has learned that Harris, her campaign is set to roll out new policy proposals aimed at appealing to black men, as both Harris and Trump fight for every last vote on the campaign trail.

Here with me now is Georgia Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock.

Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

So early voting is starting in your state of Georgia in just two days. Recent polls are kind of all over the map there, showing everything from Trump up six points to Harris leading by two. You have run four tough races in Georgia in the last four years, and you won. Where do you think this race stands right now?

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Well, good morning, Dana. Happy Sunday morning. It's great to be here with you.

Look, who's counting, but I actually have won five races in Georgia.

(LAUGHTER)

WARNOCK: And so, listen, my race was tight. This race is going to be tight all the way until the end.

And I think the important thing is that Kamala Harris and Tim Walz keep doing what they're doing, and that is to center the concerns of ordinary people. Here's the contrast that the people of Georgia have in front of them.

They have one candidate who's focused on their needs, ensuring that we continue to lower the costs for folks on everyday goods, one who has capped the costs of insulin and other prescription drugs, who passed a tax cut from middle- and working-class families, the expanded child tax credit, which we would like to see extended.

She's focused on ordinary people. And then you have got Donald Trump, who's focused on himself. That's what this race is about. We will continue to make the case until November 5. And, in the end, I think Georgians are going to get it right. They're going to support Kamala Harris, just as they supported me.

BASH: A "New York Times" poll released this weekend shows Vice President Harris at 78 percent among black likely voters. That's nearly 10 points behind what President Biden got in the -- that's according to the 2020 exit polls.

So one in five black men are saying that they're supporting Donald Trump. Why do you think that is?

WARNOCK: Listen, let me tell you something this morning. Black men are not going to vote for Donald Trump in any significant numbers. There will be some. We're not a monolith.

But as black folk in general and black men in particular consider who Donald Trump is, as they consider the fact that this is the man who literally took out a full-page ad in "The New York Times" saying that these young teenagers back in the 1980s who were accused of a horrific crime should receive the death penalty, and then when it was proven that the Exonerated 5, the Central Park 5, were actually innocent, Donald Trump has shown no deal of concern about what they went through, no deal, no bit of contrition about it.

[09:05:22]

He's doubled down on his position. This is who he is. And black men know that, as they watch him deal with his own criminal problems and concerns, that the criminal justice system certainly doesn't handle them the way it handles him.

On the other hand, you have got Kamala Harris, who in her work as a prosecutor, found ways to give people a path towards a better life, who has spent her whole life as a lawyer, as a senator, and now as vice president centering the concerns of ordinary people.

Again, we're not a monolith, but this idea that large numbers of black men are going to vote for Donald Trump, it's not going to happen.

BASH: Yes, I don't think any of the polling shows that large numbers of black men will vote for Donald Trump, but this is a race that, as you said, just take Georgia for example, is so close that it could be decided on the margins.

So even if it is a marginal number of black men who vote for Donald Trump or maybe even stay home, does that concern you?

WARNOCK: Listen, it's important for folks to show up. And that's something that I push and preach every election, that your vote is your voice, your voice is your human dignity. Not to show up is a vote.

BASH: And what if they show up for Donald Trump?

WARNOCK: Well, I have already told you what I think about that.

BASH: OK.

WARNOCK: I don't think that there will be significant numbers of black men showing up for Donald Trump.

And I think, as we push through the election, it's important to continue to help people to understand the work that we have done, capping the cost of prescription drugs. We have done some $170 billion in student debt relief that's helped some five million Americans.

Donald Trump wants to end that. And so the question is, do you want your grandmother to continue to receive $35 insulin or do you not? And the stark contrast in this race is what it is. We will continue to make the case. And, again, I believe that Georgians are going to show up for Kamala Harris the same way they showed up for me.

BASH: One more question on this topic. I want to play for you something that former President Barack Obama said a few days ago. He had some pretty sharp language for black men who are considering

voting for Trump or perhaps sitting out this election. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You have someone who has consistently shown disregard not just for the communities, but for you as a person. And you're thinking about sitting out? Part of it makes me think that, well, you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman as president. And you're coming up with other alternatives and other reasons for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Senator, actor Wendell Pierce, who is a big Harris supporter, he was a delegate at the DNC, he tweeted -- quote -- "Awful message. The party has to stop scapegoating black men. Black men aren't the problem. This is a false flag. Black men voting for Trump isn't significant," as you just said. "This accusatory tone will make some black men stay home, which is worse."

Is he right?

WARNOCK: Listen, I have a great deal of respect for President Obama, and he wasn't talking to all black men.

He was talking to men who we're talking about sitting on the sidelines. We have got to talk to everybody, because our coalition is broad. But at the end of the day, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are doing the work that every candidate has to do.

You have got to earn people's vote. And so that's the work that they're doing in a moment like this. When you present a program which eliminates the amount of student debt that we have seen happen, this closes the racial wealth gap. When you address the importance of historically black colleges and universities -- we have invested some $16 billion in HBCUs.

As a proud graduate of Morehouse College, and we have College Sunday later this morning, I know firsthand the work that this administration is doing. And I think that we have got to continue to deliver that message to the voters.

And, in the end, I think that folks will recognize how much is really at stake in this moment and that the choice really is not between voting and not voting. Not to vote is a vote. It pushes Donald Trump that much closer to the White House, and that's something that we cannot afford to happen.

[09:10:12]

BASH: Before I let you go, I want to ask about something that's happening in Georgia. Democrats are suing the State Election Board there over a rule change requiring counties to hand-count ballots cast at polling places.

If this rule remains in place, what do you think the impact will be on the election?

WARNOCK: Well, here's what we know from the data. Hand-counting ballots doesn't create more accurate results. It actually lowers accuracy. This is what we know.

You are entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts. I have been down this road. People look at me and see that I won. They should not forget that I had to sue the state of Georgia just so voters could vote the first weekend of the run-off.

And the numbers of people who voted that weekend was somewhere around the margin of my victory. And so this is how voter suppression happens. People -- it's the carving a little bit here and there around the edges.

And so we will continue to be vigilant in court, but the best thing you can do, if you're watching me this morning, here's how you respond to voter suppression. You show up. You show up in robust numbers, because part of the work of voter suppression is to so demoralize the electorate that you start to think that your vote doesn't count.

Look at me and know that it does count. We can make a difference. When we show up, we win. The other side knows it. That's why they are engaged in these shenanigans. I think that, at the end of the day, it will not stand.

BASH: OK, Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock, thank you so much for being here this morning. Appreciate it.

WARNOCK: Thank you so much.

BASH: Are black men giving Donald Trump another look? Republican Congressman Byron Donalds will be here next.

And he helped Joe Biden win in 2020. What does he think Harris needs to do differently now? Congressman Jim Clyburn is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:35]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

Tuesday marks three weeks until the presidential election, and you might be surprised to hear where Donald Trump held a rally last night, very blue California. But he needled Kamala Harris in her home state and warned Governor Gavin Newsom over disaster relief.

Here with me now from Florida is Congressman Byron Donalds, a supporter of Donald Trump.

We have a lot to get to.

I want to start with your state of Florida. Hurricane Milton devastated your -- the state generally and parts of your district as well. President Biden is in Florida today. How is your community doing?

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): We're recovering. We need power to be restored. I know work crews and different power companies are working round the clock to do that.

There are people in my district, but I know throughout Florida, who took on flooding in their homes. So they're in the process now of having to get the muck out of their houses and try to rebuild. For some of my residents, they just finished rebuilding from Hurricane Ian two years ago, and now they have to restart that process.

So that's very devastating for those families, and we're going to be with them every step of the way. In terms of just restoration for Southwest Florida in particular, once we get power back on throughout the entire county, we will finish the rebuilding process once again.

BASH: Well, Congressman, as you were just talking about the devastation there from a natural disaster, last night, the former president threatened to withhold wildfire aid from California over the state's water and environmental rules.

Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to take care of our farmers. We're going to take care of your water situation. And we will force it down his throat.

And we will say, Gavin, if you don't do it, we're not giving you any of that fire money that we send you all the time for all the forest fires that you have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Are you comfortable with that, particularly given how you are seeing firsthand how important it is for federal help in a time of natural disaster?

DONALDS: Well, actually, Dana, this is a great question.

I think, when you look at Florida versus California, taking in hurricane-force winds and massive flooding is one thing. There's not much the state of Florida can do to prevent that. You compare that with California's environmental policy, a lot of their forest fires are mostly caused because the state of California blocks the management of their lands.

They don't clear the underbrush. We do that here in Florida, which is why you don't have the major issues of massive forest fires raging through our state. But California doesn't do the simple work of clearing underbrush.

So who that really puts at risk are the citizens of California. And this is, in my view, radical environmental policy decades-long in that state. And so what ends up happening is that taxpayers have to foot the bill for this every single year. BASH: Well, the topography of California and Florida, as you know,

are very different.

DONALDS: I think what Donald Trump is really getting is that California should actually take care of this problem as well.

BASH: As you know, the topography is very different.

DONALDS: It is very different, but if you leave fuel on the ground in terms of branches and underbrush, it does contribute to larger forest fires. It simply does.

BASH: So are you saying that you're comfortable with President Trump saying that, if he is elected again, he will withhold federal aid for fires in California?

DONALDS: No, no, I'm not -- I'm not saying I'm not saying that I'm not comfortable with that. And I think Congress is going to weigh in on this heavily. And, of course, we're going to do what needs to be done.

[09:20:03]

BASH: So, he shouldn't say that?

DONALDS: But California does have to look at their land management issues in the future. They have to look at that, Dana. And we have to be responsible with the dollars that the federal government is going to be spending.

We're always going to be there for the American people. Make no mistake about that. But California does need to have responsibilities to clean up their lands.

BASH: Let me turn to the topic of what Kamala Harris is doing this coming week, particularly Monday and Tuesday. She's got several events courting black voters.

I know that you are talking about the black vote coming out, particularly black men, for Donald Trump. You're trying to help him along with that. To that point, can you talk specifically about what Donald Trump would do policy-wise in a second term to help black Americans?

DONALDS: Sure. And thank you for that question.

What Donald Trump was going to do is going to be actually quite similar to what he did in his first term. When you lower tax rates, when you cut these reckless and crazy policies that are now in the Kamala Harris administration and you cut those regulations down, what it does is, it frees up the ability for businesses to thrive, for people to be able to earn more money, for them to be able to keep more money in their pockets.

All of his economic policies actually have a stabilizing effect on prices and they grow our economy. You couple that with his energy policies. You call it -- he calls it drill, baby, drill, but what it is being energy-dominant in the United States of America.

That also allows for us to put a cap on these massive price increases under the Kamala Harris administration. What that means in particular for black families is that you are -- you have an ability to earn more money, keep more money, wages actually growing when you adjust them for inflation.

And in the big stat -- and this happened during the first Trump administration -- nobody likes to talk about it. And I heard Senator Warnock mention it. Wages adjusted for inflation were massively up under Donald Trump for black men, for black families, but for all Americans.

The wage gap that Democrats love to lecture about, the wage gap in 2019 was actually shrinking under Donald Trump's administration, his economic policies, his energy policies, and his regulatory policies.

BASH: Can I just go back to the tax...

DONALDS: So that's the agenda that black men are looking at.

BASH: OK, thank you for that.

DONALDS: Say again. Go ahead.

BASH: The tax cut question, I would imagine that Kamala Harris would say or would ask the question about how tax cuts for wealthy Americans will help the black community. What's the answer to that?

DONALDS: Well, Kamala Harris would say something like that.

But we know that she's wrong, because, economically, she's been wrong for the last 1,400 days. If you look at Tax Cut and Jobs Act, it cut tax rates across the board, mostly for middle-class families. So this is why wages adjusted for inflation for black families was higher under Donald Trump than any other administration in the history of our country.

That is a record of economic success.

BASH: Let me just quickly play for you what former President Obama said exactly on this question of the economy a couple of days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Yes, it was pretty good, because it was my economy. It wasn't something he did. I spent eight years cleaning up the mess that the Republicans had left me the last time.

(CHEERING)

OBAMA: He didn't do nothing, except those big tax cuts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: How do you do respond to that? DONALDS: Very easily.

I was working in finance during Barack Obama's administration. Let me tell you, the economy under his last -- especially the last five years was growing at about 1 to 1.5 percent per year. I think, at the time, President Obama was saying that this era of large economic growth is something of the past. We're going to have a more consistent economy.

Well, in his words, a consistent economy meant one that barely grew. So, when Donald Trump came in, he brought his tax cut policy in, which cut taxes across the board for everybody in our country. Couple the fact that he did cut massive regulations from the Obama administration, and what did we see?

Economic growth in the United States went from 1-1.5 percent under Barack Obama to 3-3.5 percent under Donald Trump. Wages adjusted for inflation, like I said, because it's the truth, increased for every subgroup of Americans in our country.

BASH: Yes.

DONALDS: The wealth gap was closing. We were actually booming economically far more than we did under Barack Obama.

So that's a cool statement he made on the stump, but it's not true.

BASH: Congressman, before I let you go, I do want to ask...

DONALDS: Sure.

BASH: ... about a law that Congress passed, a new version of the Electoral Count Act. They passed it two years ago, and it makes it harder to object to certifying election results on January 6, 2025 and beyond.

[09:25:05]

Some Trump allies have argued that's unconstitutional. The House speaker hasn't taken a clear position. Should Congress follow that law in certifying the 2024 presidential election?

DONALDS: Look, I think, when you're talking about the election this November, the thing that people want is that local jurisdictions follow the law passed by the states.

As long as everybody does that, there's not going to be any problem certifying this election this November. But what really matters about this election are the issues facing the American people, not the Electoral College Count Act, because what we need is a president who's going to secure our border, actually make our foreign policy be strong again and make sense again. That's what matters.

BASH: Right. But my question -- we're out of time, sir.

My question is, are you going to follow the new law? Are you going to follow the new law about certifying the election? DONALDS: As long -- and I have been very clear, Dana. As long as states and jurisdictions follow election procedures in their states, there will be no problem for me or anybody on Capitol Hill.

BASH: All right, well, that's a giant loophole that you're leaving there, which -- there's no evidence that that has not happened. It didn't happen in 2020.

DONALDS: That's not a loophole. That's actually not a loophole, Dana.

BASH: It is, because...

DONALDS: And if you look at what happened in Pennsylvania, Arizona, and other jurisdictions...

BASH: There's absolutely -- Congressman...

DONALDS: ... in 2020, they did not follow election procedures passed by the state legislature.

BASH: Congressman, there is no...

DONALDS: That's an empirical fact. .

BASH: There is no evidence of widespread fraud. That went through, what, 60 court cases, and even Bill Barr, the former president...

DONALDS: Dana, I did not say fraud. You said fraud.

What I'm talking about -- and if you want to talk about it, let's be clear. You had the state of Pennsylvania, where the state Supreme Court said they would count ballots three days after the polls closed in Pennsylvania in 2020. That's a violation of state law passed by the legislature, signed by the governor.

BASH: OK.

DONALDS: But that's what happened in the state of Pennsylvania. That's one example.

BASH: Congressman -- OK.

Well, Congressman, this has been litigated. And I'm assuming that a lot more of it will be litigated. Let's just hope that everybody watches the votes counted and takes a breath and lets them be counted, particularly in Pennsylvania, which doesn't start to count by law until Election Day.

Thank you for joining me. I appreciate it.

DONALDS: Thank you.

BASH: And what does Kamala Harris need to do over the next three weeks to seal the deal with voters? I will ask Congressman Jim Clyburn next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:31:42]

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION.

This week, as Kamala Harris concentrates on the blue wall swing states, CNN has learned that her campaign will roll out new policies aimed at appealing to black men, while Donald Trump is touting what he sees as their strong support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Black men. I love black men.

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: I love them. I have gone through the roof with black men. Black men. I don't do quite as well with black women, I must say. I don't know why, but I'm sure that will work out too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Here with me now is South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn.

Thank you so much for being here.

You just heard Donald Trump making his appeal to black men quite explicit. Your friend, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, who you campaigned with in Michigan, says that the message she's hearing from black men is -- quote -- "Democrats take us for granted. Donald Trump talks to us directly."

Are you concerned about black men voting for Trump or staying home?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me.

Yes, I am concerned about the black men staying home or voting for Trump. But my concerns don't tend to keep me from being energetic about this campaign, because I was in Michigan campaign with Debbie last weekend. I thought our swing through Michigan was very, very effective.

I met with black men. I met with black religious leaders. I met with black union leaders. And, quite frankly, I think we had very frank and direct discussions. And I don't see and feel what I'm reading about in news reports.

Yes, black men, like everybody else, want to know exactly what I can expect from a Harris administration. And I have been very direct with them. And I have also contrasted that with what they can expect from a Trump administration.

We will expect Project 2025 to be a full-blown policy in his administration. And what would that policy be? I described it on the first night of our national convention, and I have been describing it that way ever since. It will be Jim Crow 2.0. Now, I'm the ninth African-American serving

in Congress from South Carolina. That means there were eight before me. The problem is, there were 95 years between number eight and number nine. And the policies of that 95 years that kept us out of government, out of this economy is called Jim Crow.

And if you look at Project 2025, it will be Jim Crow 2.0. And I am amazed at the number of people who actually are interested in contrasting that. And I think that we had a lot of success up in Michigan being able to explain that.

[09:35:05]

BASH: So, when you were in Michigan, you said that -- first, you started your answer by saying you are concerned. What did you hear that makes you concerned?

CLYBURN: When people raise questions about, what does she stand for, and I tend to ask them, don't tell me what you hear. Tell me what you feel.

What do you feel about her, as opposed to what you experienced for four years under Trump? And I have yet to find one single person that can tell me one thing that they got out of the Trump administration, except, as a few of them said to me, well, we got a stimulus check.

And then I said to them, don't that Congress appropriates money, and just that the president holds up that check and so he can get his name on it? You said that you got it from him, when it was a Democratic- controlled House of Representatives then that passed that bill and made those checks available?

So when people get the explanation, it's a better understanding. And, therefore, you get a much better reaction.

BASH: And, Congressman, I'm sure you heard former President Obama speaking a few days ago. And one of the things that he said -- well, he suggested, he didn't say, he suggested that perhaps sexism is playing into the dynamic here. Do you think so?

CLYBURN: Well, look, this country has never had a woman at its helm.

England has had Margaret Thatcher, and we talk about how great she was. Germany has had Angela Merkel, and we talk about how great she was. And this is what I say to people when that issue comes up. Let's compare what women have done in European countries.

And I just think that our women here in the United States of America are just as strong, just as energetic, just as smart as any woman on earth. And so, when that comes up, I just take people to experience -- to me, history is instructive.

And then, when people talk about things in a vacuum, I think we have to fill the vacuum for them. And it's amazing how many times people tend to kind of wake up and ask different questions when you give them examples to point to. BASH: I want to play for you something that my colleague John King

heard from a black voter when he was traveling there -- excuse me -- traveling in Milwaukee last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC JONES, MILWAUKEE VOTER: Law enforcement has not been kind to black people historically. Often, blacks in those fields, they have a certain weight that they carry, because often that office that pays your bills was not kind to your community.

So it's not necessarily a good thing for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: The idea there being the fact that she's leaning into her background as a prosecutor. Telling Howard Stern that she put a lot of people in jail might not be playing with some constituents that she needs, some voters that she needs.

CLYBURN: Well, I understand that young man's feelings.

I don't have sons. I do have three daughters, but I have two grandsons. And one of them is 30 years old. And we have serious discussions about this. I know the history of this here. I'm here in South Carolina. So I know our history. I know the country's history.

And then you have to explain to young men that understanding and then trying to take them to where you think they ought to be as we look to the future. When you look at Kamala Harris, we want people like her to be in law enforcement. You aren't going to make law enforcement better by avoiding it.

And then you can't punish African-American men and women who get into law enforcement and then try to clean up things and make it fair. You punish them for having been a part of it? I don't think so.

And so I think we have to have frank discussions with young people, because many of them will aspire or their children and grandchildren may aspire to be in law enforcement.

Last night, I was with the NAACP down in North Charleston. A young man, 30 years on the police force, he became police chief. But all the people there, African-Americans and the like, had now elected him as the first African-American mayor of North Charleston.

[09:40:09]

And so that is because he demonstrated, as a member of law enforcement, that he knew how to be fair, he knew how to do prevention programs, and they have rewarded him handsomely for it.

So that's what we have to do, explain to people why it is necessary for us to become a part of all these institutions to help make them fair.

BASH: Congressman...

CLYBURN: That's what we are trying to do in the United States Congress.

BASH: Congressman, before I let you go, one of your duties will be to certify the election January 6, 2025. Do you commit to certifying the election even if Donald Trump wins?

CLYBURN: Absolutely. It'll be presided over by the vice president of the United States, who happens to be Kamala Harris. But that's not unusual. Al Gore presided over his own defeat.

So that is what this country is all about. Have the election, and when the election is over, you put it behind us and move on with trying to continue this pursuit toward a more perfect union. You don't sit around and tell lies about the election or resist the process. You go forward.

And, yes, I look forward to having a fair election. I look forward to having an election that will be certified. And I look forward to the vice president presiding over her own victory.

BASH: All right, Congressman, thank you so much for being here this morning. I appreciate it.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.

BASH: And Donald Trump's former chairman of the Joint Chiefs calls the former president -- quote -- "the most dangerous person to this country."

We will talk about that and much more,. My panel is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:46:36]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYA RUDOLPH, ACTRESS: My campaign has raised a billion dollars.

KENAN THOMPSON, ACTOR: Oh, my lord. How are you not winning by a landslide?

(LAUGHTER)

RUDOLPH: No, that's a question I scream into my pillow every morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION, 23 days to Election Day. And my panel is here now.

Ashley, I will let you start with that.

(LAUGHTER) ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That was funny.

BASH: It was funny, but, like, it's funny for a reason.

ALLISON: Yes, so a couple reasons probably. We always knew this race was going to be close. She went in with Democrats slightly behind and she's made that up.

Second, just because you have a lot of money doesn't mean you're going to be the president of the United States. There's a lot of billionaires who have run who have lost also. And, third, her timeline was so short. If the election was today, I think everybody would be biting their nails because nobody would know what happened.

And guess what? Even if she raises more money, even if Donald Trump raises more money, on November 5, we're all going to be biting our nails because the race is going to be close.

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: She had a terrible week. It was a terrible week for the Harris campaign. You had Gretchen Whitmer having to apologize to Catholics across America for mocking them with some Dorito -- bizarro Dorito thing on there.

You had Governor Elmer Fudd out hunting and not knowing how to load his shotgun, using the wrong gun. At the same time...

BASH: Who is Governor Elmer Fudd?

URBAN: Governor Walz was out there...

BASH: Oh.

URBAN: ... looked like Elmer Fudd.

(LAUGHTER)

URBAN: Be very, very quiet. We're hunting for rabbits.

BASH: Oh, my gosh.

URBAN: Right. So he does -- he can't load his shotgun. He's trying to appeal to hunters. He can't load the gun. He's using the wrong gun.

At the same time, you have Barack Obama in Pennsylvania deriding -- where he derided people who owned guns, remember, clinging -- people in Pennsylvania were bitter and they cling to guns in religion. Remember that in 2008?

So they're trying to appeal to those folks at the same time while he alienates black male voters by chastising them. So they had a really tough week this week.

DOUG THORNELL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, hold on. OK, so, first of all, Kamala Harris released her medical records. Trump hasn't. That was this week.

(CROSSTALK)

THORNELL: Let's talk about his week. He goes to Detroit and insults an entire city and insults a lot of black people there.

His economic plan comes out, and by outside economic analysis, they said it would raise costs and raise debt on the American people. So Trump didn't really have a great week either. I think many times he goes out there -- I'm sorry, guys.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: ... medical records, and that's the high point of your week? You're really grasping at straws.

THORNELL: What does he have to hide?

URBAN: You're grasping at straws.

THORNELL: You're grasping at straws.

Does anyone -- first of all, does anyone remember that Barack Obama said that in 2008? And, two...

URBAN: People of Pennsylvania do. I promise you. I promise you they do.

(CROSSTALK)

THORNELL: Oh, yes. And Barack Obama won Pennsylvania in 2008 and 2012.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: In 2012, he lost by -- he lost the state.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: No, let me get Scott in.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think -- if I were in your party, with all due respect, I wouldn't want to be arguing about the hiding of medical conditions and medical records, given who the current president of the United States is.

THORNELL: What about your nominee?

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: That's number one. Let me finish. You guys have gone.

(CROSSTALK)

THORNELL: Come on, Scott.

JENNINGS: Number two, I think the polling this morning and the week -- I think David's right. It was a rough week. I mean, her faves are down.

They're struggling with -- I mean, the front page of "The New York Times" this morning, front-page story, Democrats struggling with African-American voters, particularly African-American men. This gender gap issue is real.

It's a real problem and you see the Democrats reacting to it. And I think what they are now finally in October of the election coming to realize is that a lot of men think Democrats care more about dudes who want to become women than dudes who just want to be...

[09:50:12]

(CROSSTALK)

JENNINGS: And no hunting cosplay or cringey videos is going to change it. The bed is made.

BASH: Along with the gender gap, which you talked about, is that Trump is doing -- continues to do poorly with women.

ALLISON: Yes.

So I think that -- I'm the coalition person, right? And politics is all about math.

THORNELL: One plus one.

ALLISON: One plus one. So what Kamala Harris is trying to do right now, she does recognize the gender gap and she's going to continue to lean into her freedom message.

There are also black Americans, African-Americans, that's a huge part of the coalition that she needs to reassure. It's not that she is losing ground significantly with black women at all, but a little bit with black men.

But here's the thing. They're trying to put the math together. And when you look at a state like Pennsylvania, let's go back to 2012. People thought black voters had maxed out in 2012. But reality was, Pennsylvania and Ohio were the only two states where the black vote increased.

So the reason why they're focusing so much on women, the reason why they're focusing so much on black Americans is because they are a significant component of their coalition. And it takes some of the pressure down for the condescending remark about how Democrats view men. That's not true.

But it takes the pressure down if they can convert some of those working white-class Americans in some of the surrounding...

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: So, in Pennsylvania, interestingly, Obama did very well in '08, right? In '12, he still won handily. ALLISON: He got a 4 percent bump in black votes.

URBAN: He lost -- but -- in African American votes.

ALLISON: Yes.

URBAN: But he lost 300,000 voters in Pennsylvania.

He lost -- he got less votes in Pennsylvania, primarily in Western Pennsylvania, where a lot of Democrats who voted now who are Trump voters. And, interestingly in Pennsylvania, just to kind of stick with that theme on the addition, I look at these kind of structural things here, right?

We have right track/wrong track, bad numbers for Democrats. And these polls have the Biden/ Harris -- have their -- have they helped you personally? Only 22 percent of people identify with that. In Pennsylvania, when you're doing the one plus one plus one, Democratic registration now has shrunk significantly versus Republican registration.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: And what do you make of what Congressman -- Congressman Clyburn -- easy for me to say -- just said he is concerned about the black male vote.

And we know that that's going to be a big part of the Harris campaign effort starting tomorrow.

THORNELL: Let me just say on what you said, most polling shows that when voters are asked, who will help you or who will look out for working people, Kamala does better there. So that's just a characteristic that is in her favor.

In terms of what Mr. Clyburn said, yes, look, of course, when you're looking at a -- this race is going to be played out on the margins. And when you're looking at black male voters, they are right now slightly underperforming where they did with Biden in 2020.

I will say that she is performing very, very close, if not where Biden was in 2020. And we talk about, where did all this money go? When she -- before she started this race, her favorables were under -- she was 20 points under on her favorables. Now she is right around 50, maybe more in battleground states and national.

I know you have an NBC poll that says something different. I got a bunch of other polls that would contradict that.

BASH: Scott?

JENNINGS: I think we're constantly looking at this along racial lines. And we're right to because we have to compare it to previous elections.

But, again, I just keep going back to the working-class divide. It's the working-class men versus college-educated women divide. Working- class men, whether you're black, Hispanic or white, persistently, consistently do not believe the Democratic Party and specifically Kamala Harris are going to do a thing for them.

They have been told that they're the problem. And I suspect they're going to rise up on Election Day and tell the elites who told them that, you're wrong.

THORNELL: Well, then Trump goes out and says he doesn't like overtime, right? He hates overtime. Does that work well with working- class folks?

He's in a roomful of billionaires and millionaires and talks about how he's going to give them a tax cut. These are issues that the Harris campaign are taking advantage of, because they knows it turns of...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I'm sorry to tell you guys this, but we got to go.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: I know, just getting started. I know. You know what? We will talk in the green room and then you guys can tweet out what you're saying.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:57:28]

BASH: Vice President Kamala Harris will join CNN for a live town hall. Tune in on October 23.

Thank you so much for spending your Sunday morning with us.

Fareed Zakaria picks it up now.